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General discussionDelisting Devotion delists freedom of expression(60 posts)(60 posts)
(60 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 29, 2020
Alright kids, today's lesson is recognizing the "Appeal to worse problems" fallacy.

It is basically pulling the argument that expressing concern about a (relatively) small problem means that the person doesn't care about any larger problems. You can see it often as "How dare you campaign for X when there are children starving in Africa?"

Like can be seen in this example:

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Unfortunately for your poorly thought out argument:

1- I can multitask;
2- I may or may not be a supporter of him in government, and which one is the truth is not your damn business.

I also must therefore deduce there currently are absolutely NO ISSUES in Chile and that your country is Paradise on Earth, because you can be here worrying about whether I worry about Gog, Devotion or Bolsonaro, while I supposedly can only worry about my country.

Next please?
Post edited December 29, 2020 by joppo
Posted December 29, 2020
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joppo: Alright kids, today's lesson is recognizing the "Appeal to worse problems" fallacy.

It is basically pulling the argument that expressing concern about a (relatively) small problem means that the person doesn't care about any larger problems. You can see it often as "How dare you campaign for X when there are children starving in Africa?"

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joppo:
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joppo: Unfortunately for your poorly thought out argument:

1- I can multitask;
2- I may or may not be a supporter of him in government, and which one is the truth is not your damn business.

Next please?
It's hilarious that you decide to choose your political standings on videogames, but are too much of a pansy to declare yourself on real world issues like the one i asked. I think you should wait until your age has two digits before you post stuff on the internet.
Posted December 29, 2020
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Stop buying from GOG.
Posted December 29, 2020
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USERNAME:joppo#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:16#Q&_^Q&Q##Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:16#Q&_^Q&Q#
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No, what is hilarious is you trying to derail the thread into a pathetic argumentation of my political stance that has no bearing on anything else. Have you ever heard of off-topic?

And when challenged on it you resort to ad-hominem attacks. That's right, it's a great way you're showing your maturity.

Now don't bother writing further unless you're actually going to talk about the topic of the thread, because I won't waste my time responding.
Posted December 29, 2020
Oy, you guys forgot to add that delisting this game (which was never listed anyway) is not only a violation of freedom of expression - but also censorship, violation of right to privacy, inequality before the law, degrading treatment, no freedom of thought, and off course DRM.
Post edited December 29, 2020 by amok
Posted December 29, 2020
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amok: Oy, you guys forgot to add that delisting this game (which was never listed anyway)
Well technically it was listed : https://web.archive.org/web/20201216100054/https://www.gog.com/game/devotion
Posted December 29, 2020
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real.geizterfahr: And all their mods are minions of The Great Pooh!

Nah, seriously... I gave up on explaining what freedom of speech/expression/whatever really means years ago already. Especially on the internet! Sometimes I recommend people to go to the next supermarket, tell people there what freedom of speech is and stop the time how long it takes until they get thrown out of the store ;P
It's impossible to explain for those who do not wish to listen. I had a very long discussion with someone who insisted Steam banning accounts for improper posts was violating "freedom of Speech" laws in the US (The victim here wasn't from the US). So I explained it to him in layman's terms and he kept going around about how Steam was all for censorship of free speech and didn't engender those principles by trying to shut people up, etc. Even when I put it in layman's terms like signage on someone's lawn, he called me a supporter of censorship.

While I agree that Devotion should be released and that governments exerting influence like this is wrong, it is ultimately CDP's decision as to whether they wish to do so. I just don't like having my leg pissed on and they tell me it's raining.
Posted December 29, 2020
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Enebias: Dudes, your version of "freedom of expression" can be easily translated in "freedom for people to say whatever they want, as long as I agree too". Usually, the freedom of speech preachers are the first to want to shut other ups, like the trite "SJW you must stay silent"! Which invalidates any opinion you could have on the matter.
Neither GOG nor any other business has obligations to to do anything that isn't mandatory. Accepting videogames isn't mandatory; you could say their was a shitty move -and I would agree- but no freedom of expression was violated.
So suck it up and stop blathering bs.
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joppo: I agree that Gog isn't obligated to release the game, so them pulling back isn't really breaking freedom of expression. But that's neither what I said nor what is in the OP.

Gog isn't guilty of restricting the freedom of expression of the taiwanese devs. What they are guilty of is kowtowing to a insecure dictator bully that wants to enforce worldwide censorship because he can't take a harmless joke. So while Gog could just restrict the game on China they instead bent over to the bully and restricted the release in the whole world. Quite the morally reprehensible move, even if legally ok.

Lying about "messages from many gamers" only made things worse. They're taking us for idiots if they think anyone believes that shovelful of BS. And then they decide to go silent, certainly expecting this to blow over. Ever since the Linko debacle Gog's special move in a crisis has been the ostrich special. Hide and pretend it isn't there until it passes.

But breaching freedom of expression? That is an accusation I didn't see anyone make in this matter, so you're defending against a point that was never made.

Edit: Ah, I see now that your argument is due to the thread title. But I think the key is in the OP's phrase "when western companies bend the knee to the oppresor tyranny ... That's how freedom of expression die". Which is a perfectly reasonable point.

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XYCat: Boycott videogame stores indefinitely, like all of them. Because nobody sells the game you started caring about so much like last week.
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joppo: One last word, because it's an important distinction I have to make.

This isn't specifically about this game. This is about the reprehensible behavior of the store I used to support.

And I wish (and am doing what I can to make) them go back to being a store I'm ok with giving my money to. What game it happened to is irrelevant. It happened, and it never should.
Cool story, I'm looking forward to your next one last word.
Posted December 29, 2020
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XYCat: man, mods should start banning these guys from posting.

no, not selling a videogame is not a violation of "freedom of expression" ffs

get real
By literal definition when it's due to pressure from a totalitarian state's literal state organs making that demand, it is.

But I wouldn't expect a Wumao like yourself to understand.
Posted December 29, 2020
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XYCat: man, mods should start banning these guys from posting.

no, not selling a videogame is not a violation of "freedom of expression" ffs

get real
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Doomjedi: By literal definition when it's due to pressure from a totalitarian state's literal state organs making that demand, it is.

But I wouldn't expect a Wumao like yourself to understand.
Next time some dev's game doesn't get through GOG's curation, advise them to claim that GOG is obligated to sell their game because otherwise they'd be violating "freedom of expression"
Posted December 29, 2020
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Enebias: Dudes, your version of "freedom of expression" can be easily translated in "freedom for people to say whatever they want, as long as I agree too". Usually, the freedom of speech preachers are the first to want to shut other ups, like the trite "SJW you must stay silent"! Which invalidates any opinion you could have on the matter.
Neither GOG nor any other business has obligations to to do anything that isn't mandatory. Accepting videogames isn't mandatory; you could say their was a shitty move -and I would agree- but no freedom of expression was violated.
So suck it up and stop blathering bs.
Pretty rich accusation, coming from someone actually doing exactly that. You do understand that the *ENTIRE* reason why Devotion was banned was because of the *nationality* of the developer, right? Literally, the developer is Taiwanese, therefore the Wumao cannot allow anything they produce to be sold ever, in deferrence to the wishes of their quite literal corpse emperor.
And it won't be the first, title, and it won't be limited to products made in *real China* instead of the terrorist state occupying the mainland, either.
Posted December 29, 2020
GOG is not a state. Their store, their rules.

Just buy it from somewhere else. I find it to be more concerning the fact that people want to have all the stuff in one place creating monopolies after monopolies.
Posted December 29, 2020
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OlivawR: GOG is not a state. Their store, their rules.

Just buy it from somewhere else. I find it to be more concerning the fact that people want to have all the stuff in one place creating monopolies after monopolies.
Like I said above, I agree that Gog has the right to decide what sells in their store. It is their legal right, you are right and I never disputed that.

What I disagree with is how it anyone can not find it immoral their bending over to a dictator that demands that a particular game shouldn't be sold outside of their country. If it works now, it will work next time Xinnie the Ping threatens Gog, so from now on any game attempting release here should not have anything that is a (real or perceived) criticism of China or its dictator.

(Also Gog blaming it on "gamers" was a great way to blow their goodwill even lower).

I get your point about monopolies but we were always far from there, Steam is the big player and Gog was never a threat to their dominance.
The fact is that we have little alternatives for DRM-Free gaming. Gog used to be worth supporting and telling all your friends about. That is the "state" of Gog I am trying to recover, despite knowing my effort is just a water drop in the desert.
Posted December 29, 2020
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OlivawR: GOG is not a state. Their store, their rules.

Just buy it from somewhere else. I find it to be more concerning the fact that people want to have all the stuff in one place creating monopolies after monopolies.
You can't buy Devotion anywhere though. It was removed from Steam too, although it managed to stay there a lot longer.

You can support the devs if you want by purchasing Detention, though https://store.steampowered.com/app/555220/Detention/
Posted December 30, 2020
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Manzor: We are people first, not gamers. Be people first, not businessmen. Please.
Great post and well said...though sadly I don't think GOG is likely to listen if they haven't done so by now.
(i still hold out some hope that I might be wrong, though)

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XYCat: man, mods should start banning these guys from posting.

no, not selling a videogame is not a violation of "freedom of expression" ffs

get real
Here's a thought: if you dislike the "whining", why do you keep entering these threads to complain(whine) about them? Why not just ignore them(or filter them out with the GOG extensions available) and move on?

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BreOl72: another victim chimes in
Same as XY: If you dislike the topics, you should just avoid them.
Post edited December 30, 2020 by GamezRanker
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionDelisting Devotion delists freedom of expression(60 posts)(60 posts)
(60 posts)