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Starmaker: $99 backer-exclusive in-game content alert.
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JudasIscariot: I think if you help get the game made then you deserve a bit of exclusive content as long as the content isn't kept exclusive for all time. See how Fist Puncher did it with the Robot Unicorn DLC character.
... but it will be. I'm absolutely okay with "backers get X for free with their $45 pledge, everyone else will have to pay $99". I'm also okay with things that are naturally limited ("be a playable character", "get a pretty boxed copy now because those are expensive and we won't be making any more unless there is enough demand for a second run and you damn well know there won't be"). But nonscarce backer-only rewards can rot in the deepest pit of hell. Consider that between the pledge drive and the game's release, (BigDecimal) OMGWTFBBQ people will come of age and get jobs and credit cards.
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JudasIscariot: I think if you help get the game made then you deserve a bit of exclusive content as long as the content isn't kept exclusive for all time. See how Fist Puncher did it with the Robot Unicorn DLC character.
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Starmaker: ... but it will be. I'm absolutely okay with "backers get X for free with their $45 pledge, everyone else will have to pay $99". I'm also okay with things that are naturally limited ("be a playable character", "get a pretty boxed copy now because those are expensive and we won't be making any more unless there is enough demand for a second run and you damn well know there won't be"). But nonscarce backer-only rewards can rot in the deepest pit of hell. Consider that between the pledge drive and the game's release, (BigDecimal) OMGWTFBBQ people will come of age and get jobs and credit cards.
I'll play Devil's advocate here, if you don't mind :)

What proof do you have that the nonscarce backer rewards (exclusive transformation, in this case) won't make their way as a DLC?

Why do you consider backer-exclusive digital content to be a bad thing? After all, the people who put up the money for a product that doesn't exist anywhere except as a few pieces of concept art should have some reward for believing in the idea. I can understand in the cases where BE-content makes a game completely different but if it doesn't affect the game and appears to be mostly cosmetic, where is the problem?

Keep in mind, I am taking the opposite stance for debating purposes only and I don't intend to troll you, Starmaker :D
[url=http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnewarren/laika-believes?ref=category ]Laika Believes [/url]: Only 2 hours left-interesting alternate universe from the perspective of a dog who's loyalty has been betrayed by her country.
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JudasIscariot: What proof do you have that the nonscarce backer rewards (exclusive transformation, in this case) won't make their way as a DLC?
Uhm... because they say it's backer-exclusive? If they release this content as DLC (even paid DLC), they'll be breaking their promise to backers, whether it's a genuine change of heart or planned in advance. If we can't trust the project creator, whom can we trust?

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JudasIscariot: Why do you consider backer-exclusive digital content to be a bad thing? After all, the people who put up the money for a product that doesn't exist anywhere except as a few pieces of concept art should have some reward for believing in the idea. I can understand in the cases where BE-content makes a game completely different but if it doesn't affect the game and appears to be mostly cosmetic, where is the problem?
Completionism, history/archival, ideological objection to retrograde nonsense. Basically, all the reasons GOG aims to provide complete versions of games, and then some.

An American-Japanese printmaker explains why he doesn't number prints.

They take the single best thing of the digital era, turn it upside down, and make a kickstarter reward out of it. Literally, "if you like what we are doing, give us money". Aaaaaaand I don't. I have pledged to some questionable kickstarters, but it was despite their shady reward practices, not because. IP holders have only one excuse for not selling their (uncontested) digital goods at any given moment, which is distributing them for free.

Specifically high-tier digital specials (as opposed to extras for all backers, like Larian's epic trunks) are honestly an insult to every low-tier backer. Like horse armor, but in every way worse.

Maybe pretending that physical limitations such as limited availability apply to digital goods works on the audience as a whole. It only makes me go wtf at the obvious nonsense and recall that all digital stuff can be gotten for the low, low price of $ε (not literally as in "screw this, I'm going to pirate" - more of a general awareness that prices are arbitrary, at this moment a great number of great games and mods are being sold for peanuts or distributed for free, and in half a year this game will join them).

Incidentally, I think Larian's Imperial Edition is a great move. They were giving extra stuff for free to people who believed in the game and the company to take a dive old-school-style, before the reviews and letsplays started appearing; people who didn't, for whatever reason, now have the opportunity to pay for the upgrade. If it applies to post-release sales, as G-Doc says here, the GOG-exclusive Shadow Warrior katana is okay, too.
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JudasIscariot: What proof do you have that the nonscarce backer rewards (exclusive transformation, in this case) won't make their way as a DLC?
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Starmaker: Uhm... because they say it's backer-exclusive? If they release this content as DLC (even paid DLC), they'll be breaking their promise to backers, whether it's a genuine change of heart or planned in advance. If we can't trust the project creator, whom can we trust?

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JudasIscariot: Why do you consider backer-exclusive digital content to be a bad thing? After all, the people who put up the money for a product that doesn't exist anywhere except as a few pieces of concept art should have some reward for believing in the idea. I can understand in the cases where BE-content makes a game completely different but if it doesn't affect the game and appears to be mostly cosmetic, where is the problem?
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Starmaker: Completionism, history/archival, ideological objection to retrograde nonsense. Basically, all the reasons GOG aims to provide complete versions of games, and then some.

An American-Japanese printmaker explains why he doesn't number prints.

They take the single best thing of the digital era, turn it upside down, and make a kickstarter reward out of it. Literally, "if you like what we are doing, give us money". Aaaaaaand I don't. I have pledged to some questionable kickstarters, but it was despite their shady reward practices, not because. IP holders have only one excuse for not selling their (uncontested) digital goods at any given moment, which is distributing them for free.

Specifically high-tier digital specials (as opposed to extras for all backers, like Larian's epic trunks) are honestly an insult to every low-tier backer. Like horse armor, but in every way worse.

Maybe pretending that physical limitations such as limited availability apply to digital goods works on the audience as a whole. It only makes me go wtf at the obvious nonsense and recall that all digital stuff can be gotten for the low, low price of $ε (not literally as in "screw this, I'm going to pirate" - more of a general awareness that prices are arbitrary, at this moment a great number of great games and mods are being sold for peanuts or distributed for free, and in half a year this game will join them).

Incidentally, I think Larian's Imperial Edition is a great move. They were giving extra stuff for free to people who believed in the game and the company to take a dive old-school-style, before the reviews and letsplays started appearing; people who didn't, for whatever reason, now have the opportunity to pay for the upgrade. If it applies to post-release sales, as G-Doc says here, the GOG-exclusive Shadow Warrior katana is okay, too.
Interesting points.

Forgive me if I am being thick here, but the bit about numbering prints could be a bit off due to the fact that at the base level, no extras just the game itself, the content is the same there's no numbering of the base content. For X amount of money everyone gets the same game. In my mind if a backer pays more than the base price, shouldn't they expect a bit more? What incentives, rewards, additional goodies would you give to those that believe so much in your idea that they want to pay far more than is theoretically necessary?

Your words:

"Specifically high-tier digital specials (as opposed to extras for all backers, like Larian's epic trunks) are honestly an insult to every low-tier backer. Like horse armor, but in every way worse. "

What about the opposite? What about being a backer who plunked down $50 or 50 Euros for the game, got their name in the credits, and some other digital, no physical goodies, rewards and then you see the game appear in a bunch of bundles and people get it for a dollar or $5? I've seen people get a bit upset when they bought a game full price a day before it went on sale for half the price or even 75%.

"Maybe pretending that physical limitations such as limited availability apply to digital goods"

I am looking at two Kickstarters right now. One is the Mighty No.9 one and the other is Larian's Divinity Original Sin. I am looking at the reward tiers for both and the only physical limitations I see are those that apply to physical content ($95 on Original Sin had a box copy, printed manual, OST CD, and a map while Mighty No. 9 has a $500 tier that involves helping to create a challenge for the game and I think this one may have been limited because "too many cooks spoil the soup" so to speak). The tiers that featured only digital content had no limits so anyone with the right amount of money could buy that reward if they so chose. Unless the "physical limitation" you are referring to means "limited because the Kickstarter is closed", I fail to see the "physical limitations" or "limited availability". Care to enlighten me on that? :D

"Incidentally, I think Larian's Imperial Edition is a great move. They were giving extra stuff for free to people who believed in the game and the company to take a dive old-school-style, before the reviews and letsplays started appearing"

Could you show me the source of this? The only place I can find anything remotely Dragon Commander-related on Kickstarter is the Original Sin kickstarter and I was sure there was a separate KS for DC as well. Yes, I used Google but not well enough I suppose :P If you're referring to Original Sin, the extra stuff applied to tiers $40 and above, unless I am reading things wrong, so if you only paid in, let's say, $20 then you didn't get the extra stuff.
Post edited September 01, 2013 by JudasIscariot
I fully support Starmaker here.

I think backer exclusive in-game content is a bad face of Kickstarter, it's like doing a worse copy of a game for all those who did not know about kickstarter/had no money during that short period of time when kickstarter project is running etc.
Post edited September 01, 2013 by SLP2000
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SLP2000: I fully support Starmaker here.

I think backer exclusive in-game content is a bad face of Kickstarter, it's like doing a worse copy of a game for all those who did not know about kickstarter/had no money during that short period of time when kickstarter project is running etc.
Like I said before, I am just playing Devil's advocate here for debate purposes only :)

So what would you put in place of backer-exclusive content in order to entice complete strangers to give more than the usual amount to your kickstarter?
Post edited September 01, 2013 by JudasIscariot
...
Post edited September 01, 2013 by AnonymousGiftBot
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SLP2000: I fully support Starmaker here.

I think backer exclusive in-game content is a bad face of Kickstarter, it's like doing a worse copy of a game for all those who did not know about kickstarter/had no money during that short period of time when kickstarter project is running etc.
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JudasIscariot: Like I said before, I am just playing Devil's advocate here for debate purposes only :)
I'll play too! I'll be the corrupt judge.

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JudasIscariot: So what would you put in place of backer-exclusive content in order to entice complete strangers to give more than the usual amount to your kickstarter?
Overruled! Keep this up and I'll hold you in contempt.

>:D
Octopus City Blues adventure game. $10 gets you the retail game. $25 gets you the kickstarter edition game.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ghostinabottle/octopus-city-blues
Updated OP! Finally!

Video Games (or related):
Project Phoenix (September 11)
Video Games Live: Level 3 (September 13)
Adventuros (September 18)
U55 - End of the Line (September 19)
Octopus City Blues (September 25)
Speed Kills Gas'd Up (September 26)
Conspirocracy (September 27)
Shades of Sanity (September 27)
Death Road to Canada (September 27)
Ground Pounders (September 28)
Mysterious Cities of Gold (September 29)
Hot Tin Roof: The Cat That Wore A Fedora (September 29)
Mighty No. 9 (October 1)

Tabletop RPGs/Games (or related):
[BG] Wrath of Kings (September 15)
[BG] Noble Blood (September 15)
[BG] Infamy (September 18)
[BG] Give it to the King (September 20)
[BG] Conquest of Orion (September 22)
[BG] Septikon: Uranium Wars (September 25)
[BG] WarFields (September 28)
[BG] Smash Monster Rampage (September 29)
[BG] Burning Suns (October 5)
[BG] Fantasy Frontier (October 7)
[BG] Tide of Iron Next Wave and Stalingrad expansion (October 16)

[RPG] Pirates and Dragons (September 11)
[RPG] Abstract Dungeon (September 15)
[RPG] Adventure Creator and Solo GM Guidebook (September 16)
[RPG] Grim World Supplement for Dungeon World & Fate (September 19)
[RPG] Little Fears Nightmare Edition - Blessed Are The Children (September 21)
[RPG] Promised Sands for Sixcess Core (September 21)
[RPG] Jadepunk (September 22)
[RPG] Raiders of R'lyeh Mythos Sandbox (September 25)
[RPG] Adventures Under the Laughing Moon - New Edition (September 27)
[RPG] Mazaki No Fantaji (October 2)

[O] The Best Damn Metal Gaming Coins Ever (September 11)
[O] Bake Your Own Basius (September 15)
[O] Shrockets - Flying Model Rockets (September 17)
[O] 3D Virtual Tabletop (September 20)
[O] Tabletop Connect - 3D Virtual Tabletop (September 22)
[O] Realmsound Project 2.0 (October 7)

Technology/Hardware/Software:
Hex (October 10)
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lowyhong: Updated OP! Finally!

Video Games (or related):
Project Phoenix (September 11)
Video Games Live: Level 3 (September 13)
Adventuros (September 18)
U55 - End of the Line (September 19)
Octopus City Blues (September 25)
Speed Kills Gas'd Up (September 26)
Conspirocracy (September 27)
Shades of Sanity (September 27)
Death Road to Canada (September 27)
Ground Pounders (September 28)
Mysterious Cities of Gold (September 29)
Hot Tin Roof: The Cat That Wore A Fedora (September 29)
Mighty No. 9 (October 1)

Tabletop RPGs/Games (or related):
[BG] Wrath of Kings (September 15)
[BG] Noble Blood (September 15)
[BG] Infamy (September 18)
[BG] Give it to the King (September 20)
[BG] Conquest of Orion (September 22)
[BG] Septikon: Uranium Wars (September 25)
[BG] WarFields (September 28)
[BG] Smash Monster Rampage (September 29)
[BG] Burning Suns (October 5)
[BG] Fantasy Frontier (October 7)
[BG] Tide of Iron Next Wave and Stalingrad expansion (October 16)

[RPG] Pirates and Dragons (September 11)
[RPG] Abstract Dungeon (September 15)
[RPG] Adventure Creator and Solo GM Guidebook (September 16)
[RPG] Grim World Supplement for Dungeon World & Fate (September 19)
[RPG] Little Fears Nightmare Edition - Blessed Are The Children (September 21)
[RPG] Promised Sands for Sixcess Core (September 21)
[RPG] Jadepunk (September 22)
[RPG] Raiders of R'lyeh Mythos Sandbox (September 25)
[RPG] Adventures Under the Laughing Moon - New Edition (September 27)
[RPG] Mazaki No Fantaji (October 2)

[O] The Best Damn Metal Gaming Coins Ever (September 11)
[O] Bake Your Own Basius (September 15)
[O] Shrockets - Flying Model Rockets (September 17)
[O] 3D Virtual Tabletop (September 20)
[O] Tabletop Connect - 3D Virtual Tabletop (September 22)
[O] Realmsound Project 2.0 (October 7)

Technology/Hardware/Software:
Hex (October 10)
Appreciate the effort you put into this. +1
Post edited September 02, 2013 by monkeydelarge
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JudasIscariot: So what would you put in place of backer-exclusive content in order to entice complete strangers to give more than the usual amount to your kickstarter?
I think that beta tests, physical goodies, in-game names, faces for NPCs (etc.), part of the game designed by backer, time exclusive in-game content, and exclusive backer box copy (that means there might be box copy for non-backers, but it will be different and it will contain less goodies). I think it's enoough.
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JudasIscariot: Forgive me if I am being thick here, but the bit about numbering prints could be a bit off due to the fact that at the base level, no extras just the game itself, the content is the same there's no numbering of the base content. For X amount of money everyone gets the same game. In my mind if a backer pays more than the base price, shouldn't they expect a bit more? What incentives, rewards, additional goodies would you give to those that believe so much in your idea that they want to pay far more than is theoretically necessary?
The prints example is not about differently priced kickstarter tiers, it's about post-release sales. It doesn't cost much to make a print once the blocks are carved, and it doesn't cost anything to make an additional copy of the digital game once the game is released. Someone who buys a particular print in 2013 doesn't get an inferior product compared to someone who bought the same print in 1998. However, three years down the line, people who didn't pledge to the kickstarter with backer-only digital rewards for various reasons (including being broke, underage, not having internet access, etc) won't be able to get the complete digital edition.

(I'm fine with backer-only physical rewards.)

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JudasIscariot: Your words:
"Specifically high-tier digital specials (as opposed to extras for all backers, like Larian's epic trunks) are honestly an insult to every low-tier backer. Like horse armor, but in every way worse. "

What about the opposite? What about being a backer who plunked down $50 or 50 Euros for the game, got their name in the credits, and some other digital, no physical goodies, rewards and then you see the game appear in a bunch of bundles and people get it for a dollar or $5? I've seen people get a bit upset when they bought a game full price a day before it went on sale for half the price or even 75%.
Screw them, then. Price drops are how game distribution now works. Digital-only backers can get thanks, free addons, creative input tiers and a 30% discount from the release price. Limited-access digital content is an unethical reward. If people want the project creator to offer something unethical to convince them to pledge, then screw them with full force.

Plus, no matter what Yancey says, while the kickstarter runs, it's not so much about reciprocating spontaneous acts of generosity as convincing people to buy into higher tiers, and the problem is not "make that $50 dude feel good about his decision" but "convince those $10 game-only folks to upgrade to $50". Incentivizing that upgrade with blatantly cheap stuff like different character skins is obvious horse armor territory.

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JudasIscariot: "Maybe pretending that physical limitations such as limited availability apply to digital goods"

I am looking at two Kickstarters right now. One is the Mighty No.9 one and the other is Larian's Divinity Original Sin. (...) Unless the "physical limitation" you are referring to means "limited because the Kickstarter is closed", I fail to see the "physical limitations" or "limited availability". Care to enlighten me on that? :D
Yes. Screwing over future fans is uncool. There's a good reason for physical items such as boxed copies to be unavailable for purchase in the future, because boxes need to be made in bulk and there won't be much interest for a second run five years down the line. There's no good reason for downloaded content to be unavailable for purchase after the KS closes/the game ships/any other threshold you care to name.

For the record, I don't have any objection to limiting creative input tiers. Well, ideally, they should be priced high enough to not get completely sold out, but pledge drives are notoriously unpredictable, so if the game can accommodate ten backer-created NPCs, it's perfectly fine to make that reward limited to ten.

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JudasIscariot: "Incidentally, I think Larian's Imperial Edition is a great move. They were giving extra stuff for free to people who believed in the game and the company to take a dive old-school-style, before the reviews and letsplays started appearing"

Could you show me the source of this? The only place I can find anything remotely Dragon Commander-related on Kickstarter is the Original Sin kickstarter and I was sure there was a separate KS for DC as well. Yes, I used Google but not well enough I suppose :P If you're referring to Original Sin, the extra stuff applied to tiers $40 and above, unless I am reading things wrong, so if you only paid in, let's say, $20 then you didn't get the extra stuff.
I mean the DC preorder deal at the Larian Vault and GOG. People who preordered DC got the Imperial upgrade for free. Everyone else who wants it now has to - can - pay $10 for it. (There wasn't a kickstarter for DC, it was part of a reward for certain D:OS tiers.) That's the best and fairest way to distribute cosmetic extras.


So, for example, this is a good reward structure:
I wrote a book and now I'll be publishing it.
$6 gets you a DRM-free digital copy (regular price $10).
$15 gets you a DRM-free digtial copy, a high-res digital poster of the cover art suitable for printing, and thanks in the dedication.
$30 gets you a beautiful limited edition physical copy and all of the above. I'll print enough books for all backers who want one, unless there's enough interest for a second print run; otherwise, after the KS, the physical book will be only available in a shitty lulu version.
$40 I'll sign your copy and all of the above. Normally, books ship directly from the printer in China, so signing them incurs additional costs. Sorry about that.
$175 (limited to 4) name a character + tiers 1-4.
$400 (limited to 1) name the main villain + tiers 1-4.
$1000 (limited to 1) get the original cover painting + tiers 1-4.
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AstralWanderer: ...and Conquistador games (Road to Enlightenment, The New Science, War Stories and Tomorrow KS projects) have announced their newest:

The Best Damn Metal Gaming Coins Ever! (Sep 12)
I didn't much care for the best damn metal coins project previously, but now that I'm going to run a homebrewed RPG adventure, I feel like I could really do with a few sets of them. Putting down $100 for 10 sets of coins, which feels like good value to me. Thanks again for mentioning it. I saw it on Kicktraq, but dismissed it off-hand. That'll teach me to be less judgmental in future.