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Klumpen0815: Wasn't there an option to set the difficulty of the campaign in Warcraft 3?
If yes: Did you play it on easy and still didn't make it through the last mission?

I'm really bad at RTS, usually play my games on easy the first time anyway and I didn't have a problem with the campagin, I never went far into Starcraft's campaigns though due to the lack of difficulty options.
It's been so many years now since I played WC3 that I honestly couldn't say. I normally play RTS games on their normal setting. While I enjoyed the game itself I was extremely frustrated by the impossible ending which made me pretty much not want to touch the game again other than some multiplayer after.

I generally love playing games on higher difficulty levels and scaling it down to whatever feels right from there, but one thing I greatly dislike is when game developers make games impossibly difficult and force you to figure out the one single insane difficult path they've chosen for you to solve something, possibly making you button mash until your fingers bleed or you break a finger trying to do the right combination of button presses to pull off magic sauce, or make you stand on the right pixel on the screen or something else ridiculous. That's how I felt in the last level of Warcraft 3, you have a timed map (I hate timed maps) in which every so many minutes the map is flooded with a fixed number of enemies. You have to protect 3 or 4 areas and are eventually beaten back to where you make your base. Eventually there is a final massive confrontation complete with flying dragons attacking you like mad or something like that and you're just outnumbered and overwhelmed. I made it right to the last like 10 seconds a bunch of times and got killed, and got a distinct feeling that the game purposefully just ramped the difficulty of that whole battle up to impossible for no good reason that translates into actual end-gamer fun.

In the end I lost interest in trying to get past the impossible non-fun battle and just went and watched a Youtube video of someone else managing to finish it although I don't remember the ending either, but I'm sure someone has a video of it on Youtube still. :) At that point continuing to play is pointless if I'm not actually enjoying the game. I play games to experience entertainment and fun, and having a few frustrations along the way is inevitable and expected, but if a game becomes completely non-fun by sticking an impossible road block up then I just eventually throw my hands up in the air and go digging through my collection to find another one of the 800-900 games to play.

I was disappointed by that because I see Blizzard as being higher quality than that, but I still enjoyed the game as a whole and would give it great ratings minus points for the end. :)
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skeletonbow: snip
Sounds like Warcraft 3 had a difficulty spike at the end which was just too steep.
Things like this make me play on easy. I've encountered stuff like this many times when I played something on "normal" and had no problems up to a certain point which became impossible for me. I rather have a metaphorical walk in the park and get a beatable challenge at the end than to be completely frustrated all of a sudden.
Not many devs get the difficulty curve right, I'm actually happy if there is only a smooth curve with no spikes or sudden risings, since it's always like someone slapping you in the face while you were peacefully playing a game for fun.
Post edited December 20, 2015 by Klumpen0815
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nicethugbert: Even if all the customers boycotted the product, the company is still responsible for creating the steaming pile of shit and thinking people would be so stupid as to buy it, i.e. they're scam artists and it's the companies fault that it's a scam artist, not the customer's fault. It's just logic.
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LeonardoCornejo: But if people are as stupid to buy a steaming pile of shit then it is their fault. Stupid people must be held accountable for their actions.
Shit salesman is as shit salesman does. If a company make garbage, it's a garbage maker.
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LeonardoCornejo: But if people are as stupid to buy a steaming pile of shit then it is their fault. Stupid people must be held accountable for their actions.
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nicethugbert: Shit salesman is as shit salesman does. If a company make garbage, it's a garbage maker.
Yes, and nobody questions that. But we (The one you replied to and I) state that customers are responsible for tolerating their shit. In the end if people buy shit then someone will sell them shit.
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LeonardoCornejo: Yes, and nobody questions that. But we (The one you replied to and I) state that customers are responsible for tolerating their shit. In the end if people buy shit then someone will sell them shit.
Well said. I am so annoyed by all the people complaining and buying anyway.
There are no "garbage maker", there are too many "garbage buyer".
Post edited December 21, 2015 by etb
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Klumpen0815: Sounds like Warcraft 3 had a difficulty spike at the end which was just too steep.
Of course the difficult spiked, Archimonde himself, the lord of the Burning Legion (basically the Satan of the Warcraft universe) was launching his final assault to destroy the world tree and end the world. Blizz couldn't have gotten away with doing it any easier.
Post edited December 21, 2015 by Crosmando
While I don't agree with everything Blizzard does, it's funny to read how people that admit never to have played any Blizzard game post War3 bash their newer games when it's clear from their reasoning they have no idea what they are talking about since, you know, they never played the games. But I agree that the SC2 story is pure shit, the multiplayer is excellent though.
And while I agree that the way Blizz got the sourcecode is questionable, they did it to botmakers for multiplayer games, nothing of value was lost there. I have nothing against bots in single player, as you make your own fun there, but bring that shit to multiplayer and you don't deserve any sympathy.
It would be interesting to see it people had the same reaction if a indie team did what Blizzard did, because it looks like to me that the negativity is mostly because Blizzard is part of a big corporation and nothing else.
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Klumpen0815: Sounds like Warcraft 3 had a difficulty spike at the end which was just too steep.
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Crosmando: Of course the difficult spiked, Archimonde himself, the lord of the Burning Legion (basically the Satan of the Warcraft universe) was launching his final assault to destroy the world tree and end the world. Blizz couldn't have gotten away with doing it any easier.
Actually, Archimonde is just a lieutenant. He's pretty equal or slightly lesser in rank to Kiljaden and both of them answer to Sargeras the Dark Titan.
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nicethugbert: Shit salesman is as shit salesman does. If a company make garbage, it's a garbage maker.
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LeonardoCornejo: Yes, and nobody questions that. But we (The one you replied to and I) state that customers are responsible for tolerating their shit. In the end if people buy shit then someone will sell them shit.
Mobulu admits that Blizzard is exploiting people's stupidity yet blames the customer's for that. He didn't blame the customer for their own tolerance. You and he blamed the customer for the company's actions, for exploiting people's stupidity. That's like blaming people for getting mass murdered (although, not as consequential).
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Klumpen0815: Frozen Throne was the last game from Blizzard I got and it's awesome, really give's Warcraft 3 the additional kick it needed.
After that, it all went down...
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skeletonbow: I never got a chance to play that. I got to the last level of WC3 and could never get past it despite trying about a million times.
I played that at high difficulty. Yeah, it was quite irritating as it was supposed to be a losing fight for you, you just tried to slow the enemy down the best you could, until the timer runs out. I think the enemy AI was cheating in that mission, ie. they could build structures and units much faster than should be possible, At least it felt that way, there was no way I could try to keep up with its production, even though I had three bases.

However, I read some FAQ where they suggested some kind of trick to prevent the enemy from producing more structures, and more units. It was quite tricky IIRC, you had to time it just right that when you e.g. lost your first base and the enemy would rush in to build their own base there, you were supposed to kill those builder units ASAP, before they manage to do build the new structures. Maybe you had to do it a few times, in case new builders came out.

IIRC. I created ASAP some of those flying units which had a riding archer on them (a flying unit with ranged combat), and then hid a bunch of them to the very SE corner of the map. When I lost the first base (which was located in that same corner), then I would use those flying units to kill those aforementioned builders, before they could start building. Maybe I had to go back hiding if some enemies rushed to kill them and then get back to kill the builders, I don't recall...

Anyway, in the end it worked and the enemy didn't send any more units at me because they couldn't produce them, or if they did, they were pretty easy to handle. Near the end of the timer, the big baddie comes out though and starts decimating your bases, but at that point you've won already as he hasn't got enough time to reach the end anymore.

I guess that approach was almost like cheating, but not quite. You play without any actual cheats, but you play in a way that the computer doesn't expect you to play, I guess. A bit similar like in Serious Sam I killed many big powerful enemies with a mere revolver, by repeatedly shooting them in the elbow or such from a hiding place. Hey, if it works, it works!

However, I got distracted while playing the Frozen Throne, I haven't finished it yet.
Post edited December 21, 2015 by timppu
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skeletonbow: It's been so many years now since I played WC3 that I honestly couldn't say. I normally play RTS games on their normal setting. While I enjoyed the game itself I was extremely frustrated by the impossible ending which made me pretty much not want to touch the game again other than some multiplayer after.
As I recall, the whole point of that map was that in spite of having a 3v1 alliance, your side is going to get whipped in any kind of straight fight. Your task is not to beat the opposition, just to stall them. I seem to recall reading somewhere that really good players can wipe the Undead base (at which point you just wait for the timer to run out), but that is beyond me.

If you ever care to try again, I've got two avenues for you to try. Either way, get the two open gold mines, because you need the funds. Set one of your heroes at the entrance to the current base you are defending, and constantly send reinforcements. You can either build the troops yourself (doable, with enough troop production buildings), in which case both of your heroes can be on the front line; this also means when your allied bases fall, you've already got the troop production buildings ready to churn out warriors to defend your base. My favorite alternative is to use one of my heroes to continuously hit the two mercenary buildings that are available. Alternating waves of trolls and furbolgs go rushing down the mountain to die in combat for me; a full contingent of mercs from one of the merc centers will see off a single wave of attackers, and the other merc center has regenerated their recruits by the time I need to recruit again. Alternate back and forth, and slowly build your troop production buildings in the meantime. Use the goblin shop to place goblin mines when you can, to help defend the second base.

Your allied bases will be crushed eventually. Look to have each base survive about 15 minutes and you should be able to beat it.

Edit:
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timppu: I played that at high difficulty. Yeah, it was quite irritating as it was supposed to be a losing fight for you, you just tried to slow the enemy down the best you could, until the timer runs out. I think the enemy AI was cheating in that mission, ie. they could build structures and units much faster than should be possible, At least it felt that way, there was no way I could try to keep up with its production, even though I had three bases.
The undead force does have MASSIVELY reduced build times, at least for structures. They don't completely zerg rush you though, since there is delay as they build up attack waves (and usually a short delay before a completed wave will move on you). I've only played it on Normal diff, so YMMV on Hard.
Post edited December 21, 2015 by Bookwyrm627
So let me get this right: the games are so shit that people are having to get bots to play the game for them, to save them from the sheer boredom of grinding through those shit games themselves yet the thought never crossed their minds to go off and play one of the vast myriad of games that are not shitty grindathons?

I just don't understand why they're having these problems with ActiBlzz when the company is so completely avoidable.
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timppu: I guess that approach was almost like cheating, but not quite. You play without any actual cheats, but you play in a way that the computer doesn't expect you to play, I guess.
Computer? Rather the level designer. :D

And yeah, usually I also don't feel like I'm cheating when using such exploits. There's a fine line between mastering a game and exploiting design flaws.
Post edited December 21, 2015 by F4LL0UT
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Navagon: So let me get this right: the games are so shit that people are having to get bots to play the game for them, to save them from the sheer boredom of grinding through those shit games themselves yet the thought never crossed their minds to go off and play one of the vast myriad of games that are not shitty grindathons?

I just don't understand why they're having these problems with ActiBlzz when the company is so completely avoidable.
Because they are stupid or got scammed and have invested enough time or money to refuse quitting.
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nicethugbert: Even if all the customers boycotted the product, the company is still responsible for creating the steaming pile of shit and thinking people would be so stupid as to buy it, i.e. they're scam artists and it's the companies fault that it's a scam artist, not the customer's fault. It's just logic.
It's not. If all customers boycotted the product the company has to change politics or go out of the market. If the customers buy then the company is doing his job right, in other works "creating the steaming pile of shit and thinking people would be so stupid as to buy it" is the correct action. And yes, it is customer's fault. Because as you well said: they BUY IT and we are not speaking of few people, but a lot of them. Enough to make the choice a good choice.

And btw, you should check the meaning of the word logic.
Post edited December 22, 2015 by etb