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Engerek01: It is true 5th edition D&D with every skill included. As far as I know, it is the first "true" implementation of a D&D ruleset. That's one of the main reasons I am so excited and hopeful about the game.
Did you notice how initiative works in the demo? That's not how true D&D is played.

Also you should check out The Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a nearly perfect adaption of 3.5 edition rules.
Post edited March 01, 2020 by zazak09
Now if only D&D 5e didn't suck.
Quite frankly i own the system and it lacks the necessary granularity to be any good.
In fact the worst part of it is the core principle that things should be a) bound (such as an AC ceiling) and b) be simplified to a advantage / disadvantage base (which in itself is essentially a +5/-5 which is a rather sledgehammer style adjust).
Then you have all the spells which are all over the shop power wise once you hit 3rd level spells; the fact illusion magic is utterly useless by raw.
It's like they had an idea of what they wanted and a game everybody loved; and then ham fisted their way not back to the latter but their 'golden standard' of 4e that everybody hated.
Multiclassing sucks.
There is a return essentially of the cooldown abilities (this time with short rests).
Characters are no longer heroes, more like the tavern keeper sticking their hand up for the french foreign legion.
Gold is practically useless; I'd be surprised if BG3 allowed you to spend it on elephants like you can in the players handbook and then use them IN combat.
The one thing they should of simplified and didn't was the spell list; which should of been changed so that spell titles implicate the effect and had base effects that are then adjusted upon (eg. touch/ranged touch/projectile; ray/cone/blast; energy type; duration instant/round/concentrate) thus shortening the spell list overall.
Now every character is a kitchen sink nobody, background dishpig out to save the world for useless gold.
I mean check out what happened to drow as a race in order to shoehorn it into the base races; they use to be basically abyssal elves with strong stats, inate spell like abilities and magical resistances.
Oh you can have the narrative we don't mind, but your just a slightly more charismatic elf now... wtf?!?
And before you go 'pfft minmaxer' the fact of the matter is more granularity is more customization/personalization and scale as far as challenges go.

Long story short BG3 will completely suck with an accurate D&D 5e rule base.
Now we have a narrative focus with cheap shot combat that is in fact the core of D&D gameplay due to the xp system.

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Engerek01: It is true 5th edition D&D with every skill included. As far as I know, it is the first "true" implementation of a D&D ruleset. That's one of the main reasons I am so excited and hopeful about the game.
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zazak09: Did you notice how initiative works in the demo? That's not how true D&D is played.

Also you should check out The Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a nearly perfect adaption of 3.5 edition rules.
This was actually good the only problem it had was that it tapped out at level 10 and most D&D is probably best played level 3 till 16.
Post edited March 01, 2020 by MaceyNeil
Well, I didn't like what I saw about BG3. I'm not a huge BG fan, I prefer Planescape and Icewind Dale, but still like the BG series quite a bit. After seeing the gameplay reveal I'm scared. Not because of which edition, turn based game or whatever... But by the amount of what I consider crap, being put in it: jumping, multiple dungeon entrances, "cinematic" camera for dialogues and the ambience is too "out of place" (at least in what was shown). This is, of course, all subjective and be my guess in enjoying all of that freedom and overwhelming amount of opportunities in-game, but is definitely not for me. I want to read while listening to cool music and ambience, not watch a movie. I remember turning off the camera close-up in NWN for instance. Is just too distracting for me. Either be an isometric CRPG, or be a third person adventure game.

Essentially, the game seemed more like Original Sin 3 with D&D paint on top. Great for those who like it, bad for me. Still waiting for reviews in like 2 years time, but I'm not excited.
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zazak09: Did you notice how initiative works in the demo? That's not how true D&D is played.

Also you should check out The Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a nearly perfect adaption of 3.5 edition rules.
Are you sure about the initiative? Because to me it looked like exactly how it was supposed to. Everyone rolls a dice and then you play in that order. If it was different, I couldn't catch it.

I own and played Temple of Elemental Evil. Unfortunately it wasn't my cup of tea but thanks for the suggestion.
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zazak09: Did you notice how initiative works in the demo? That's not how true D&D is played.

Also you should check out The Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a nearly perfect adaption of 3.5 edition rules.
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Engerek01: Are you sure about the initiative? Because to me it looked like exactly how it was supposed to. Everyone rolls a dice and then you play in that order. If it was different, I couldn't catch it.

I own and played Temple of Elemental Evil. Unfortunately it wasn't my cup of tea but thanks for the suggestion.
Each side has one initiative roll, and the entire party acts simultaneously.

It's an immense change from how traditional D&D is played, and is also very unbalanced
Post edited March 01, 2020 by zazak09
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jonridan: Well, I didn't like what I saw about BG3. I'm not a huge BG fan, I prefer Planescape and Icewind Dale, but still like the BG series quite a bit. After seeing the gameplay reveal I'm scared. Not because of which edition, turn based game or whatever... But by the amount of what I consider crap, being put in it: jumping, multiple dungeon entrances, "cinematic" camera for dialogues and the ambience is too "out of place" (at least in what was shown). This is, of course, all subjective and be my guess in enjoying all of that freedom and overwhelming amount of opportunities in-game, but is definitely not for me. I want to read while listening to cool music and ambience, not watch a movie. I remember turning off the camera close-up in NWN for instance. Is just too distracting for me. Either be an isometric CRPG, or be a third person adventure game.
It was never going to be a Pillars of Eternity style game, the brand is massive and they had 350 people working on it. Of course they were going to modernize it and make it more "AA" or even "AAA." If you like PC RPGs though, putting the name on the title screen aside, I can't imagine not thinking it looks like a good game.
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jonridan: Well, I didn't like what I saw about BG3. I'm not a huge BG fan, I prefer Planescape and Icewind Dale, but still like the BG series quite a bit. After seeing the gameplay reveal I'm scared. Not because of which edition, turn based game or whatever... But by the amount of what I consider crap, being put in it: jumping, multiple dungeon entrances, "cinematic" camera for dialogues and the ambience is too "out of place" (at least in what was shown). This is, of course, all subjective and be my guess in enjoying all of that freedom and overwhelming amount of opportunities in-game, but is definitely not for me. I want to read while listening to cool music and ambience, not watch a movie. I remember turning off the camera close-up in NWN for instance. Is just too distracting for me. Either be an isometric CRPG, or be a third person adventure game.
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StingingVelvet: It was never going to be a Pillars of Eternity style game, the brand is massive and they had 350 people working on it. Of course they were going to modernize it and make it more "AA" or even "AAA." If you like PC RPGs though, putting the name on the title screen aside, I can't imagine not thinking it looks like a good game.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I believe is going to be an amazing game, just not for me. And I wasn't expecting a Pillars of Baldurs or anything like that, I was just not expecting the cinematic cameras (which maybe we can disable? Hoping for it) and was not expecting the dialogue displayed like a narration instead of the literal dialogue like in the older games, and the jumping implementation I didn't like. Maybe the game will end up being so amazing that I can actually look beyond those things, but that's exactly why I'll wait for reviews.
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jonridan: Oh, don't get me wrong, I believe is going to be an amazing game, just not for me. And I wasn't expecting a Pillars of Baldurs or anything like that, I was just not expecting the cinematic cameras (which maybe we can disable? Hoping for it) and was not expecting the dialogue displayed like a narration instead of the literal dialogue like in the older games, and the jumping implementation I didn't like. Maybe the game will end up being so amazing that I can actually look beyond those things, but that's exactly why I'll wait for reviews.
Honest question with no judgment attached: did you like Dragon Age: Origins?
Gameplay looks darningly good, regardless of what it looks like. Hopefully the Githyanki and Tiefling classes are as promising as they look.
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zazak09: Each side has one initiative roll, and the entire party acts simultaneously.

It's an immense change from how traditional D&D is played, and is also very unbalanced
Aha! Thanks for that. I must have missed that indeed. I'll have to rewatch and check that part again. Well, since the initiative is a serious part of the gameplay, I am pretty sure they'll fix that.
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LiquidOxygen80: I could probably write several more paragraphs about how disappointed I am/have been with Bioware and especially ME, but frankly, ME 1 is more of an RPG than anything Bioware's put out for years now.
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StingingVelvet: Really depends on how we define "RPG," which is always a highway straight to endless debate. ME1 is definitely a hybrid though, and a shooter a lot of the time. ME2 just feels like less of an RPG because the shooting is better and the RPG mechanics are simplified. I'd say all three are a mix though, and I don't really get people thinking ME1 is "a real RPG."

Dragon Age Origins was great. DA2's main issue was being rushed, and the crappy encounter design, spawning enemies and reused areas are all a result of that. Give them another 6 months and work on those three things specifically and the game would have been great, IMO.

Dragon Age Inquisition is much more what people say ME2 and 3 are, in my opinion. It changes to pretty much all action RPG, and uses MMO design, which changes what Dragon Age "is" completely. It's a much more different game than ME2 is compared to ME1.
I don't disagree and I admitted that ME 1 wasn't an ideal RPG, but it was a lot closer to it than 2, 3, or Inquisition. Here's the thing, I don't mind streamlining the action sequences and most people who like the direction that the ME series took, start off assuming that the people in the opposite camp expected that to stay the same. I didn't.

But it's semi-disingenuous to assume that the removal of other elements instead of taking the time to make them more interesting and relevant isn't a valid point of view as well.
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jonridan: Oh, don't get me wrong, I believe is going to be an amazing game, just not for me. And I wasn't expecting a Pillars of Baldurs or anything like that, I was just not expecting the cinematic cameras (which maybe we can disable? Hoping for it) and was not expecting the dialogue displayed like a narration instead of the literal dialogue like in the older games, and the jumping implementation I didn't like. Maybe the game will end up being so amazing that I can actually look beyond those things, but that's exactly why I'll wait for reviews.
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StingingVelvet: Honest question with no judgment attached: did you like Dragon Age: Origins?
I never played Dragon Age because my laptop simply can't run it. When it was announced I was really hyped (also waaay younger) but now I look at the game and think "meh". I guess I'll play it one day? I need a new PC for that though...
I think Dragon Age Origins wasn't a good game, mostly for one reason (let's supersede the ultra-whiny insufferable Bioware quality™ characters): 95% of battles were against thrash mobs and required no real effort, so you ended leveling up a bit randomly and ditribute skills in a not very focused plan; when you suddenly hit the actually good fights, the ones requiring tactics, you often found yourself severely lacking on all fronts because you built characters to be eclectic and to generally deal fast damage of all types against masses of weak enemies.
The sudden difficulty spikes caught you unprepared, and you had to respec. Bad design.
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zazak09: Each side has one initiative roll, and the entire party acts simultaneously.

It's an immense change from how traditional D&D is played, and is also very unbalanced
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Engerek01: Aha! Thanks for that. I must have missed that indeed. I'll have to rewatch and check that part again. Well, since the initiative is a serious part of the gameplay, I am pretty sure they'll fix that.
Zero chance of that happening. They would need to completely redesign every single encounter in the game. It would be less balance breaking to add in a RTwP mode at that point.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by zazak09
Can't wait for the game to be on sale :P
Hope this will be a good one, not like the last expansion.
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Enebias: I think Dragon Age Origins wasn't a good game, mostly for one reason (let's supersede the ultra-whiny insufferable Bioware quality™ characters): 95% of battles were against thrash mobs and required no real effort, so you ended leveling up a bit randomly and ditribute skills in a not very focused plan; when you suddenly hit the actually good fights, the ones requiring tactics, you often found yourself severely lacking on all fronts because you built characters to be eclectic and to generally deal fast damage of all types against masses of weak enemies.
The sudden difficulty spikes caught you unprepared, and you had to respec. Bad design.
Yeah battles were not good, but the story and characters were. If you want battles go for icewind dale 2.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by Orkhepaj