It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Sabin_Stargem: I disagree with your position, Tea. Being able to acknowledge and engage in sexuality is a part of being mature. Furthermore, D&D has been around long enough for multiple generations of humans to grow up with it, including the years of puberty and adulthood. Roleplaying can be part of exploring and affirming your identity.

Besides, the Forgotten Realms are not set in stone. They have gone through at least one reboot, and are being shaped by players who are very much not you. What you perceive as "normal", is simply a reflection of your personal circle when you played D&D. People find like people to play with, and "deviants" simply weren't in your group.
It's fine to disagree and I respect your opinion. However, it's not about what I consider 'normal'. As I said, I've been following FR for literally decades, and I expect a new piece of media set in the Forgotten Realms to maintain some level of canonical continuity/internal consistency with the way it has always been portrayed.

As you say, it seems the IP owners are intent on re-imagining the setting. Therefore, it's not being aimed at me, so I'm out and I won't be spending my money on it. But then, it makes me wonder why they are using the Baldur's Gate brand in the first place, if they weren't targeting the game at older gamers who fondly remember the originals?
avatar
Sabin_Stargem: This sounds promising. The game sounds much better to me now, because it isn't entrapped by the tyranny of puritanism. The world is a much better place when people can engage in their sexuality.
Definitely agree.

A general thought (not necessarily referring to anyone in this topic) that occurs to me is that the puritanism (to use your term) is a large part of why there is backlash against this sort of content in a franchise that didn't have it previously. Put another way, my view is that more options in RPGs are always a good thing and basically fundamental to the genre itself, so I don't see why RPG fans should be against content like this now being an addition to the game.

I can understand issues with overall tone of a game being changed (though if the content can be avoided, that argument is weakened) but honestly it rings a little hollow in this case too...haven't people been saying for however long this game has been out that it feels more like one of the Divinity Original Sins than it does a Baldur's Gate? I could be wrong on that point, I don't know much about BG3, but now I am interested in it where I wasn't as interested before...
avatar
Sabin_Stargem: This sounds promising. The game sounds much better to me now, because it isn't entrapped by the tyranny of puritanism. The world is a much better place when people can engage in their sexuality.
What if a certain amount of 'puritanism' was part of the fictional setting? Again, FR is supposed to be a medieval fantasy setting - does it necessarily have to conform to modern-day PC values? The medieval European culture that much of the setting portrays was likely quite puritanical and conservative in nature (much more so than the modern day).
Post edited July 09, 2023 by Time4Tea
high rated
I fail to see what the issue is either.
One of my favourite D&D characters to play is the pious and uptight goody two-shoes paladin or cleric who will get overcome with almost paralysing shame at the mere sight of the female form and the underlying temptations of the flesh and therefore goes out of his way to avoid contact with women at all costs. Looks like BG3 is giving you a wide range of options and means to make this kind of playthrough with no sexy time whatsoever possible.

Is it because of the mere presence of things like the gay bear sexual encounter that gets the knickers of people into a twist?
As mentioned already, there's always the Ignore option. Make use of that.
And if you really cannot get over it - who knows, there may even be mods that patch out all the "questionable" stuff further down the line, for a less aggressively overt and more traditionally reserved Baldur's Gate experience.
The sexual contents are already part of the Early Access version. They even teased some of it in earlier videos by showing some of the MOCAP actors in their suits. These contents are known for years and suddenly they are problem?

Like in Baldur's Gate II you can ignore the romance stuff in Baldur's Gate III. All what Larian is doing is giving the people a game which they can play as they want. This is not a bad thing.

It is also funny that Pathfinder as an alternative got mentioned:
https://pathfinderkingmaker.fandom.com/wiki/Romance
https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Romance+Guide

...
Post edited July 09, 2023 by foad01
high rated
avatar
kai2: Dungeons & Dragons should affirm your identity?
D&D is a tool used to engage in fantasy. Be it as a barbarian beating down a horde of goblins or as a princess seducing a hunky bearman, it is for imagining any and all possibilities. That includes simulating a possible "you", and deciding whether you want to incorporate that persona into yourself.

It isn't a "should", but rather a "may" that people can determine for themselves. Be it through media or dating, there are many avenues a person can discover their personality. You simply have no right to dictate the means through which they do so.
high rated
avatar
rjbuffchix: A general thought (not necessarily referring to anyone in this topic) that occurs to me is that the puritanism (to use your term) is a large part of why there is backlash against this sort of content in a franchise that didn't have it previously. Put another way, my view is that more options in RPGs are always a good thing and basically fundamental to the genre itself, so I don't see why RPG fans should be against content like this now being an addition to the game.
I'm not exactly a DnD expert but aren't these old fantasy games and related materials often decorated with portrayals of scantily clad women.. and engaging in topics such as sex slavery and inter-racial romance (hey I've played BG2 a little!). And don't tell me there are no succubi in DnD.

I haven't seen the video OP mentioned but it doesn't sound like the content is really that new to the genre? It sounds like they're just taking it a step further.
avatar
kai2: Dungeons & Dragons should affirm your identity?
avatar
Sabin_Stargem: D&D is a tool used to engage in fantasy. Be it as a barbarian beating down a horde of goblins or as a princess seducing a hunky bearman, it is for imagining any and all possibilities. That includes simulating a possible "you", and deciding whether you want to incorporate that persona into yourself.

It isn't a "should", but rather a "may" that people can determine for themselves. Be it through media or dating, there are many avenues a person can discover their personality. You simply have no right to dictate the means through which they do so.
You sold me on 100% "gential customization." Affirmed.
Post edited July 09, 2023 by kai2
avatar
Time4Tea: What if a certain amount of 'puritanism' was part of the fictional setting? Again, FR is supposed to be a medieval fantasy setting - does it necessarily have to conform to modern-day PC values? The medieval European culture that much of the setting portrays was likely quite puritanical and conservative in nature (much more so than the modern day).
I am not a D&D expert by any means so anyone can feel free to correct me on this point, but my understanding was that the "medieval" setting of FR was not necessarily equivalent to medieval Europe. A cursory lookup of "Forgotten Realms" on wikipedia (bad source I know) said:

"Forgotten Realms is a fantasy world setting, described as a world of strange lands, dangerous creatures, and mighty deities, where magic and supernatural phenomena are quite real. The premise is that, long ago, planet Earth and the world of the Forgotten Realms were more closely connected. As time passed, the inhabitants of Earth had mostly forgotten about the existence of that other world – hence the name Forgotten Realms."

So I don't see anything in this sort of description that implies the values need to match "real life" historical ones may have been or that precludes the type of content in BG3. Probably the best argument is that historically, the adult content has been "unofficial"...but other games have added in "unofficial" content and then it is "official."
avatar
clarry: I'm not exactly a DnD expert but aren't these old fantasy games and related materials often decorated with portrayals of scantily clad women.. and engaging in topics such as sex slavery and inter-racial romance (hey I've played BG2 a little!). And don't tell me there are no succubi in DnD.

I haven't seen the video OP mentioned but it doesn't sound like the content is really that new to the genre? It sounds like they're just taking it a step further.
I agree with your comment too. That's a good point...the door was arguably open for this type of content already. It could be said to be a logical progression of what was available previously.
Post edited July 09, 2023 by rjbuffchix
avatar
pds41: So many companies are going down this route and adding totally unnecessary things like this into what should be fun games. To a certain extent, I can understand being able to set whether the character looks like (or is) a man or a woman, but specifying whether there's (for want of a better phrase) "junk in the trunk" is pointless as I can't see a reason for actually showing genitalia.

The problem is that these days, as soon as anyone calls it out, there's a massive pile-on and the complainer basically gets bullied by people that can't stand anyone legitimately disagreeing with them.
avatar
clarry: Could it possibly be that calling things -- things that other people might like -- totally unnecessary and pointless is not the most agreeable way to disagree?
I'm happy with the wording that I used. It was sufficiently restrained.

Like I said, unless it's a porn game, there's no reason for an RPG to show genitalia. Giving the option is pointless. Perhaps people lack the imagination these days to pretend. Perhaps people can't cope with not having a toggle switch for something that can't add any value to the game because (in this case) it cannot be shown unless they want to release an X-rated game.

Still, (and this is deliberately not targeted at anyone in particular) I'm pleased to see that my second point is being proved in the responses in this thread.
avatar
VausG: Is it because of the mere presence of things like the gay bear sexual encounter that gets the knickers of people into a twist?
As mentioned already, there's always the Ignore option. Make use of that.
And if you really cannot get over it - who knows, there may even be mods that patch out all the "questionable" stuff further down the line, for a less aggressively overt and more traditionally reserved Baldur's Gate experience.
As far as I'm concerned, it's not that I'm somehow outraged by sexual content or anything like that. It's just that:
a) if a marketing strategy focuses on something I'm not interested in, my interest in the thing being promoted lessens. I think that's pretty straight forward
and
b) it just doesn't fit with what D&D is for me. Just like it's integral to something like to The Witcher, and I'd be the first to cry foul if someone tried to make a "kid friendly" version of that. And of course, others can have a different view, and D&D can to them be all about sex and "affirming your identity" (I've no idea what that even means), I'm just talking about how it impacts my personal interest in the game, not saying I want it cancelled or anything.
Post edited July 09, 2023 by Breja
avatar
Time4Tea: What if a certain amount of 'puritanism' was part of the fictional setting? Again, FR is supposed to be a medieval fantasy setting - does it necessarily have to conform to modern-day PC values? The medieval European culture that much of the setting portrays was likely quite puritanical and conservative in nature (much more so than the modern day).
...Have you even played BG2? There are plenty of brothels, and the Underdark demonstrates a matriarchal society, that engages in coercive sex. Faerun has plenty of hybrid critters, such as the Bhallspawn rabbits, the dragonblood folks, and so on. The religions are essentially polytheistic, as deities clearly exist in the setting. Magic is a thing. There is a lot here that clearly isn't European in the least.

Further, your "medieval" norms are invalid from a historical standpoint. The cultures around the Mediterranean basin were rather diverse, so I am not even sure what you mean by "medieval". Italy? Spain? Venice? The Moors?
avatar
clarry: Could it possibly be that calling things -- things that other people might like -- totally unnecessary and pointless is not the most agreeable way to disagree?
avatar
pds41: I'm happy with the wording that I used. It was sufficiently restrained.
Ignore the feelings of other people at your own peril. Don't act surprised when your words provoke a reaction.
Like I said, unless it's a porn game, there's no reason for an RPG to show genitalia. Giving the option is pointless.
Just like, if it's not a dismemberment murder simulator, there's no reason for an RPG to show gibs? Do you get up in arms if people in BG don't just tip over and get lifted off the map like chess pieces or physical tabletop DnD characters? You could just imagine the blood and guts and pretend to scream in pain when you get hit by a fireball...
Still, (and this is deliberately not targeted at anyone in particular) I'm pleased to see that my second point is being proved in the responses in this thread.
Where did you see bullying or people who can't stand differing opinions? The former should be reported to moderators.
For reference here is a Sex and Romance guide for Baldur's Gate III from 2020:
https://www.eurogamer.net/baldurs-gate-3-romance-companions-npc-7050

And it has been a topic since this Community Update:
https://baldursgate3.game/news/community-update-7-romance-companionship_6

The Panel from Hell Livestream pretty much confirmed what already has been known for a very long time.
avatar
Breja: I did see the "release teaser" that was almost entirely about... People kissing? And romance?
I don't really have much of an opinion on this topic without me having tried the game first, but I watched the trailer after reading your post, and I have to say these scenes looked exactly like I imagine romance in CRPGs, based on previous experiences - extremely corny and cringeworthy, like the cover of a cheap romance novel.

Though why should Larian be any better at this than Bioware, their games are fun but certainly not known for their awesome storytelling qualities, heh. And apparently there are quite a few D&D fans who are interested in this stuff (see e.g. roleplay servers for Neverwinter Nights or how many players inexplicably swooned over the Aribeth character). Anyway, in D:OS2 you can have sex with a lizard if you absolutely want to, and it was still a great game. Most people who played it probably never even learnt about this (and I only did so because one of my co-op partners was crazy enough to go that route). As long as I can avoid whatever I'm not interested in and it's not too intrusive ... well, whatever floats other people's boats.
Post edited July 09, 2023 by Leroux