artmanphil: Let this be a tiny reminder that - no matter how brilliant this game might be - all the brilliance can't be worth exploiting the people who actually do the work behind the game. The ones who don't get their share of the revenue, who don't own a motorboat, so to speak.

And even if every extra hour is paid, sleep deprivation, stress, pressure and consequences for the families of the staff who worked off their butts to make this game the gem it surely will be, are not worth it. There must be ways to make amazing games on a 9 to 5 basis. And if you don't think so, feel your boss, the company or even the industry you work in are exploitative to a degree that might even not be seen as exploit, but as normality, part of the job if you will, then your boss, company or industry must do something about it. And if they won't, you will need to make the first step.

Unionising is important, don't let anyone tell you your work is not worth the money youre paid or you need to work harder, meaning longer, to match expectations.

And knowing how much the devs put in this game, enjoy the hell out of it. But don't defend the terrible working conditions over it, please :)

P.S.: In case you don't know what I am writing about, please google they keywords "crunch cd projekt" and check out the jimquisition on youtube.

artmanphil: There must be ways to make amazing games on a 9 to 5 basis. And if you don't think so, feel your boss, the company or even the industry you work in are exploitative to a degree that might even not be seen as exploit, but as normality, part of the job if you will, then your boss, company or industry must do something about it. And if they won't, you will need to make the first step.

wintermute.: OMG, this gets on my nerves. It is the reality of a lot of jobs to have crunchtimes, many of those jobs even don't get paid well. It is like a jobcriteria in games development that there are crunchtimes, so if you choose the job you know what likely is happening. It happens, it's not nice but it's also towards the end of a yearlong project. The devs knew it, they get compensated for it and that's it. I don't wish anybody from the dev team ill and it's not ideal but that's how things work. What do you think happens in other jobs? What do you think how seasonal business is working? Even in my job (IT infrastructure) overtimes are usual and that's simply the case because if we don't make our job at times where others in the company aren't working (or only a few people are working) they can't work or had a hard time working.
Get over it. It's not abuse when everybody knows what the job includes and everybody agrees to it. I don't know how well CDPR is paying, but I guess it's not that bad. In the US good games developer are paid around 120k US$ per year according to a study from 2018, in Germany we have only a few bigger game developer but it is said you can earn around 70k-90k € per year in the bigger games companies which still isn't bad. Maybe someone talks about the wage at CDPR maybe not, but I'm quite sure they don't have to beg for food and it's a good wage as they hired from around the world.

artmanphil: The same arguments as always: "they do get paid (well)" and "if it is known part of the job it is not abuse".
You can defend almost every awful business practice with that. I bet even Harvey Weinstein would argue the same way. What I'm trying to say is: those are no arguments.

Common exploitation doesn't make it right. People who are creative and want to make games don't have to accept those practices. All the working rights we have nowadays were commonly accepted deficits which were then changed so workers get exploited less. I see no reason not to raise awareness. I know one day it can be different.

Crunch is bad. No matter how you put it. And I really don't understand how anybody could defend it even the tiniest bit. Why argue against regular working hours?

Krawu: I know from my own job that if you're invested in what you do and enjoy your work you sometimes give more than 100% without anyone telling you to, even if it's hard. I don't remember the hours of overtime that I simply never registered yet don't regret in the slightest, just so I could finish the task I was working on.

artmanphil: Let this be a tiny reminder that - no matter how brilliant this game might be - all the brilliance can't be worth exploiting the people who actually do the work behind the game.

JakeOfRivia93: Working 15 hour days 5/6 days a week, that's crunch! Working an extra 8 hours a week for 6 weeks isn't.

artmanphil: P.S.: In case you don't know what I am writing about, please google they keywords "crunch cd projekt" and check out the jimquisition on youtube.

frogthroat: Let this be a tiny reminded that crunch is a normal occurrence in software business. I was part of our company's crunch most of last year when our project got delayed and delayed again. Didn't see my family for almost a year. Left to work in the morning, came back home when everyone were already sleeping. Weekends at work instead of with the family. It's not fun. It's horrible. But it's not unique to CDPR. It's unfortunately common in this business.frogthroat: I guess, in a "that's not a knife, this is a knife" kind of way. But both examples are crunches. Ok yeah, 12h days, 6 days a week (well, only 5-8 hours on Saturdays) for almost a year is quite taxing. However, 8h extra per week for 6 weeks is also a crunch. It's still not fun. It may not make you question your commitment to the profession and look for a less stressful job at a construction site or any other manual labour work just to get away from the stress, but it is still not a fun thing.

artmanphil: The same arguments as always: "they do get paid (well)" and "if it is known part of the job it is not abuse".
You can defend almost every awful business practice with that. I bet even Harvey Weinstein would argue the same way. What I'm trying to say is: those are no arguments.

Common exploitation doesn't make it right. People who are creative and want to make games don't have to accept those practices. All the working rights we have nowadays were commonly accepted deficits which were then changed so workers get exploited less. I see no reason not to raise awareness. I know one day it can be different.

Crunch is bad. No matter how you put it. And I really don't understand how anybody could defend it even the tiniest bit. Why argue against regular working hours?

Krawu: Don't forget that CDPR is located in Poland and has to adhere to EU regulations, so proper rest times and overtime compensation are pretty much assured or any disgruntled employee could tip off the appropriate investigative bodies at any time.

I know from my own job that if you're invested in what you do and enjoy your work you sometimes give more than 100% without anyone telling you to, even if it's hard. I don't remember the hours of overtime that I simply never registered yet don't regret in the slightest, just so I could finish the task I was working on.

All the protective measures are in place, employees just need to take advantage of them.

JakeOfRivia93: Well unfortunately that's life and is part of the responsibilities of a working adult. Sometimes you have to put in extra hours! If people can't accept that then quite frankly I think they need to grow up. Just my 2 cents.

Farinhir78: I am just going to say this, if you think the crunch in the games industry is bad please keep the blinders on and do not look into the restaurant industry. I have had many weeks of working 85+ hours of hard, physical labor in a 120f kitchen trying to keep up with business and I don't even get a share of tips. I always have to laugh a little (in a sad way) when I hear one of the wait staff complain that they had to tip out the hostesses after making over $400 in tips (basically what I hope to take home on a good week). Crunch is everywhere. And what CDPR did was actually pretty good. They gave the employees a vote in the crunch. So get over it and learn that this is part of the real world.

frogthroat: Let this be a tiny reminded that crunch is a normal occurrence in software business. I was part of our company's crunch most of last year when our project got delayed and delayed again. Didn't see my family for almost a year. Left to work in the morning, came back home when everyone were already sleeping. Weekends at work instead of with the family. It's not fun. It's horrible. But it's not unique to CDPR. It's unfortunately common in this business.frogthroat: I guess, in a "that's not a knife, this is a knife" kind of way. But both examples are crunches. Ok yeah, 12h days, 6 days a week (well, only 5-8 hours on Saturdays) for almost a year is quite taxing. However, 8h extra per week for 6 weeks is also a crunch. It's still not fun. It may not make you question your commitment to the profession and look for a less stressful job at a construction site or any other manual labour work just to get away from the stress, but it is still not a fun thing.