So this game is based on the pen-and-paper game made in 1988, self-titled 'Cyberpunk'. Pen-and-paper games are dice rolls and saving throws. They are deep choices and dire consequences. CP 2077 seems to lack this. The dialog so cookie-cutter and bland. A lack of a morality system makes V one dimensional and flawless. There are no checks in dialog so my choices mean nothing more than making sure I have the required stat to choose an option. No chance of failure? No evil, neutral or good dialog choices? This is worse than Alpha Protocol.

No morality system. So we are all V. Every single player across the globe. No choices, no consequences, because we all make the same choices and suffer the same consequences. We don't need to savescum dialog because there's no risk of failure, and with no morality; we cannot be the bad guy/gal, we cannot be the good guy/gal. So again, dialog and choice means nothing. We don't need to savescum to test different outcomes because the outcome is the same, every single time. So, in reality, there are no stories to tell, no unique experiences as our own V because we can all achieve the exact same outcome in the exact same playthrough. What we lack is cool checks (20% chance to fail if cool is 5/8, for example), technology checks etc. We also lack character depth and weight behind the three origin stories.

This is what morality systems are for, what dialog checks and succession rates/failure chances are for. To offer that unique experience. For me to tell my friends that I made the check and got this outcome, where they had a different experience because they may have failed the check and had to do the bad thing to bypass it or to get a different reward. To threaten someone in order to achieve a different outcome or to warn an ally ahead of time is something sorely missed in CP 2077.

And what the heck is with enemy NPCs having no levels assigned to them? They're either red skull tough, yellow mediocre or grey easy. And no levels on gear? Only the requirement? Guys, did you QA test this at all? This is simple QoL stuff that you can patch in after a week of tinkering. Modders have done this to Oblivion and Skyrim after a week of playing with scripts. Come on guys, you can do bettfer than that and this is the faith we have in you. Anyways:

CP 2077 isn't a traditional role-playing game: it is an FPS action game with RPG elements in it, a looter shooter. And why do police just spawn in wherever they want? There's no investigation, no questioning, no tracking: they're right there with you, even during a crime committed. Pretty efficient eh?

Digressions aside, I have a point to make here. I wanted to play an evil corpo V, making the hard choices and accepting the consequences. Then I wanted to make a paragon Nomad V, being the good guy to see what different outcomes I can experience.

None of this exists. I am also aware that a few people have mentioned this, but they never went into detail past mentioning Karma and Fallout. Fallout is not the only example that uses these systems. Mass Effect did it well, Red Dead Redemption and RDR 2 did it well. Jade Empire did it well (they called it Philosophy). There are countless examples and they all vary, from silent protags to voiced protags so why does Cyberpunk lack this simple feature?

It is *literally* a pen-and-paper borne video game. Or, it was supposed to be. Did CDPR not say themselves that CP 2077 is a "narrative-driven, open world *RPG*..."? Role-playing game. Role-playing games originated in 1974, when Gygax published the first edition (and commercially available iteration) of Dungeons & Dragons.

The idea is to create your own character, from their race to their class, to then tell a deep narrative and go on an adventure. Before you guys all grab your torches and pitchforks, you can have a role-playing game with a pre-made protagonist. Again, I mention Mass Effect. Dragon Age: Origins, the Grey Warden, is another example. Jade Empire has you selecting from many character options. Most modern D&D games have a pre-made roster of characters to play so argue about it anyway, but know that I have done my research and have personal experience on the matter.

V can still be ours, and ours alone, to mould and shape into the character we want them to be: but not at this moment. At this current moment, V is a static, pre-defined and pre-existing, character who we merely control in a linear fashion. All we can do is change their gear and build their passive trees. Yay, such a role-paying experience.

I am so sad right now, that I've had to take a break. I never wanted to. I wanted to be immersed, for months on end like I was with ME1-3, Fallout 3 and New Vegas. But I can put it down without struggle. This is not a good thing, CDPR. Also, the driving is awful. And why do the enemy NPCs in street races teleport all over the roads to keep up with the player? Kinda cheating, isn't it?

Long rant not over, but open for discussion. Go nuts guys.

*edit*

I'm not feeling the morality anymore. If it has to remain true to CP 2020's Humanity, they're not the same thing. I do stand by dialog option checks though.

CDPR said a lot of things. If you want them to see something, get a refund.
They will look at their money in the bank.

I completely agree. Granted, I still enjoy the game for the Borderlands-esque looter-shooter style of action game that it is, but this isn't the RPG that I'd expected. The biggest role-playing aspect about the game is...what, dice rolls on equipment upgrades and skill tree unlocks?

These issues don't require a total rework though. They're simple modifiers that add more weight to the choices we can make. If they decided to implement the morality system that's supposed to be in this game, it can be as simple as making most of the Corpo dialog options evil, then working in some rewards for double crossing people at the cost of Netrunners coming after you, or increasing the eddies and maybe throwing in a special incentive for going with good morality options. As for the other stuff, like enemy levels and gear levels? Again, easy. The data is already there, they just need to add some UI floaties and link them to the areas they're in. Set some range values so that levels in Watson can't exceed 10, levels in Pacifica can't exceed 20 and so on.

A morality system would be a terrible idea. Karma points? Paragon/Renegade points? Light Side/Dark Side points? Don't make me laugh, those are all shit. Even slightly more sophisticated systems like DnD's 2-dimensional Alignment system usually turn out not to work too well in video game adaptations. Personally, I'd rather *not* be judged by the games that I play.

Allow me to illustrate the silliness with an example of how dialogs usually play out in NWN2:
Random Stranger: "Please, oh noble adventurer, I implore you to help me with this urgent thing!"
Me: "How much do you pay?"
The Game: "Your actions have shifted your alignment 2 point(s) toward Evil."
Thank you, game.

That's not how it works and you know it. If some rando NPC asks you to do a job and you agree to it, or you ask for extra money, that's a neutral choice. If you threaten them with death or a kidnapping or something, to extort more money out of them, that's your evil choice.

It's down to the developer to choose which options add to your morality alignment and it's your perogative to choose the logical choice, or the choice you want for the character you wish to build. Morality systems have always worked because they give you choice. Choose who you want to be, choose the way you want to play. We don't get that choice here because it's been made for us.

Furthermore, why is there no faction thematic gear/Cyberware to rep? Heck, why is there no faction reputation? I want to align with the Maelstroms and look like them. I wanna do jobs for them, but I can't. Because this isn't an RPG, apparently. Simply a looter shooter.

The atmosphere, world are top notch, combat gameplay is fun and the characters are really interesting. The game works in these parts and i can't complain.

But the systems that make it all work are pretty lack luster, when compared to other games, be it RPG or Openworld systems

The traffic system is barely on the level of San Andreas.

No faction System that remembers your actions and reacts accordingly.

The police is barely a factor in this game, and with broken spawning when an infraction occurs.

I remember the interviews and what was planned, and most of these Systems did not make it in the game. What we now have is single player action game with a light RPG system attached to it and some varying story decisions.

Which would be enough, if it was set in a functioning openworld that doesn't constantly remind you that so much more was planned.

I get it, creating complex systems from scratch is complicated, but i could have waited another 2 years.
I've made a post about this, check it out and help it get CDPR's attention.

You're right, I exaggerated that a bit. The reality is not *too* far off though. On multiple occasions throughout the OC, you will receive an alignment shift merely by asking for money (though it might actually be Chaotic points, now that I think of it... it's been quite a while since I last played it). Sure, it's an arbitrary decision by the designer of that quest, but it illustrates one of the biggest failings inherent to that system: You are constantly being judged by the game itself (or rather by some complete stranger who happened to write that particular part of the game).

There is no such thing as good or evil, that's the whole point of The Witcher that made it so relatable. You act good or evil toward particular people in particular situations, but there is no objective rating. Everybody hoped there will be no objective morality before CDPR even announced what the next game will be, I can't understand how could you have missed that.
I haven't played CP2020, but it doesn't seem a system built on heartless corporations has any objective morality either.

I'm not addressing other parts of your post, but IMHO there is no place for game-imposed morality in neither CP nor a CDPR production.

The choices are there, you can let NPCs live or kill them and there are consequences to the story.

The protagonists of Cyberpunk 2020 are anti-heroes with moral dilemmas. Of course there are morality mechanics in the pen-and-paper game, same with Dungeons & Dragons and Shadowrun. Morality is a huge part of pen-and-paper character development and I read the interview from CDPR stating they would be avoiding this. I find this to be a mistake and a silly one at that. I want to play an RPG with a character that *I* develop, I do not want to play a pre-developed character.

Using The Witcher is a stupid justification for your retort because Geralt is a protagonist of a novel. Pen-and paper games always allow for custom character creation and deep development. I believe there was the mechanic of Humanity? The more cyberware you have, the closer to cyberpsychosis you become. That in itself alters your psyche and leads to moral issues. Judgment is a natural part of life. You will make choices that people will praise you for, or loathe you for. Role-playing games make this life choice fun, depending on who decides to implement it and how. I have never hated any of the BioWare or Bethesda games that made this system work, because it influenced who my character became. It told a story.

Actions and consequences, choices that matter. We don't get a choice and this is the dilemma. I'm fking fed up with playing the good guy ALL THE TIME. Was Fallout 4 not enough of a wakeup call? Who wants to play the flawless father tryna save his son, every single playthrough? I don't. I want to be the bad guy, or the neutral guy, or the outlaw with a conscience. CP 2020, like D&D before it, featured protags with moral dilemmas. You had morality (Humanity), you had choices with impact. Character development.

Where is V's character development? It's already been done. I feel like I'm playing a memory, not an unfolding story. This is so stupid

Planned content not making it into the release will likely be worked on and introduced by way of DLC. That's no problem and is expected.

Removing existing content for whatever reason puts CDPR in a particularly tricky situation. They could re-implement it in upcoming DLC. When they do it had better be a free DLC. If, on the other hand, they decided to monetize on that content, this wouldn't go down well even with people who were otherwise satisfied with their post-launch experience. CDPR can't afford that. I wouldn't want to be in any of their shoes when the storm's coming down if they did. It would put them in company of other studios usually cutting out content from their base game only to introduce it in a wave of paid-for DLC. No need to name names as this is beside the point. It would affirm those losing trust that GoG/CDPR are slowly but steadily putting an end to their pro-customer approach which was the main draw for many people to come buy their games in their own shop.

They simply can't afford that and they better be careful what they are going to do next. As the saying goes: The Internet never forgets - some people may - so better return to the path of the light side - GoG/CDPR. ;-)

Idk, maybe I see it differently or maybe I'm stubborn. I definitely expected more than... this. The dialog seems so artificial, fake. The three origin stories hold absolutely no weight whatsoever so why even implement them at all? Corporate dialog always sounds like V is a douchebag but what are the consequences of insulting someone? There are none. No matter what you chose from the beginning, all of those options lead to the same outcome.

At least with morality, we get the choice of who we want to play, what we want to become. If I want to give money to a homeless person, I want to receive good karma for that. Maybe someone might help me out in the future eh? If I'm an ex Arasaka corporate dog, I want to make the bad decisions, to threaten people for information or money, or to take down a friendly faction to aid their opposition and receive compensation for my betrayal, at the cost of becoming an outcast.

It's character development. The hallmark of role-playing games. Heck, the more cyberware we install, the closer to cyberpsychosis we become, right? And wouldn't black market cyberware increase the chances of malware? Easier to be hacked into? And the more cyberpsychotic you become, the less control you have over your actions. Loss of your Humanity.

Look, let's say that I'm wrong and if I am: I accept that and I admit to that. In place of morality (I did do some digging and read through the source book and found only moral dilemmas and Humanity), Humanity would be there yeah? That's the main aspect of Cyberpunk 2020. But V is immune to this. Plot armour? I mean, it wouldn't have to go so far as to handing control of V over to the game master, making him an NPC. That's silly, basically game over and that's not fun. But this is game development. You can bend it a bit to make the gameplay fun, but loyal to the source material.

I don't know, CP 2077 just feels half-complete, as if these systems were there but were removed and it feels janky.

An excellent read guys. Thanks

No, thank you.... Locking faction gear behind factions makes no sense in Cyberpunk world unless in very specific cases (like certain biochip from Arasaka or stimulative drugs from Biotechnica),

As to morality choices like the game you mentioned (haven't played jade empire) - these are more or less crude options where good and evil actions are treated from childish perspective which seemed bit forced even when I was kid. Also - good morality systems grounded in real moral issues should never be in your face (and it is kind of telling that you use save/load as mechanism by which you get desired resolution). That is very DnD like and I respect if people want that but hard pass from me.

And to their credit CDPR was honest about not having morality system like the ones you want from get go so you knew what you were getting into (proof: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/25/cyberpunk-2077-does-not-have-a-morality-system)