Posted December 16, 2020
So this game is based on the pen-and-paper game made in 1988, self-titled 'Cyberpunk'. Pen-and-paper games are dice rolls and saving throws. They are deep choices and dire consequences. CP 2077 seems to lack this. The dialog so cookie-cutter and bland. A lack of a morality system makes V one dimensional and flawless. There are no checks in dialog so my choices mean nothing more than making sure I have the required stat to choose an option. No chance of failure? No evil, neutral or good dialog choices? This is worse than Alpha Protocol.
No morality system. So we are all V. Every single player across the globe. No choices, no consequences, because we all make the same choices and suffer the same consequences. We don't need to savescum dialog because there's no risk of failure, and with no morality; we cannot be the bad guy/gal, we cannot be the good guy/gal. So again, dialog and choice means nothing. We don't need to savescum to test different outcomes because the outcome is the same, every single time. So, in reality, there are no stories to tell, no unique experiences as our own V because we can all achieve the exact same outcome in the exact same playthrough. What we lack is cool checks (20% chance to fail if cool is 5/8, for example), technology checks etc. We also lack character depth and weight behind the three origin stories.
This is what morality systems are for, what dialog checks and succession rates/failure chances are for. To offer that unique experience. For me to tell my friends that I made the check and got this outcome, where they had a different experience because they may have failed the check and had to do the bad thing to bypass it or to get a different reward. To threaten someone in order to achieve a different outcome or to warn an ally ahead of time is something sorely missed in CP 2077.
And what the heck is with enemy NPCs having no levels assigned to them? They're either red skull tough, yellow mediocre or grey easy. And no levels on gear? Only the requirement? Guys, did you QA test this at all? This is simple QoL stuff that you can patch in after a week of tinkering. Modders have done this to Oblivion and Skyrim after a week of playing with scripts. Come on guys, you can do bettfer than that and this is the faith we have in you. Anyways:
CP 2077 isn't a traditional role-playing game: it is an FPS action game with RPG elements in it, a looter shooter. And why do police just spawn in wherever they want? There's no investigation, no questioning, no tracking: they're right there with you, even during a crime committed. Pretty efficient eh?
Digressions aside, I have a point to make here. I wanted to play an evil corpo V, making the hard choices and accepting the consequences. Then I wanted to make a paragon Nomad V, being the good guy to see what different outcomes I can experience.
None of this exists. I am also aware that a few people have mentioned this, but they never went into detail past mentioning Karma and Fallout. Fallout is not the only example that uses these systems. Mass Effect did it well, Red Dead Redemption and RDR 2 did it well. Jade Empire did it well (they called it Philosophy). There are countless examples and they all vary, from silent protags to voiced protags so why does Cyberpunk lack this simple feature?
It is *literally* a pen-and-paper borne video game. Or, it was supposed to be. Did CDPR not say themselves that CP 2077 is a "narrative-driven, open world *RPG*..."? Role-playing game. Role-playing games originated in 1974, when Gygax published the first edition (and commercially available iteration) of Dungeons & Dragons.
The idea is to create your own character, from their race to their class, to then tell a deep narrative and go on an adventure. Before you guys all grab your torches and pitchforks, you can have a role-playing game with a pre-made protagonist. Again, I mention Mass Effect. Dragon Age: Origins, the Grey Warden, is another example. Jade Empire has you selecting from many character options. Most modern D&D games have a pre-made roster of characters to play so argue about it anyway, but know that I have done my research and have personal experience on the matter.
V can still be ours, and ours alone, to mould and shape into the character we want them to be: but not at this moment. At this current moment, V is a static, pre-defined and pre-existing, character who we merely control in a linear fashion. All we can do is change their gear and build their passive trees. Yay, such a role-paying experience.
I am so sad right now, that I've had to take a break. I never wanted to. I wanted to be immersed, for months on end like I was with ME1-3, Fallout 3 and New Vegas. But I can put it down without struggle. This is not a good thing, CDPR. Also, the driving is awful. And why do the enemy NPCs in street races teleport all over the roads to keep up with the player? Kinda cheating, isn't it?
Long rant not over, but open for discussion. Go nuts guys.
*edit*
I'm not feeling the morality anymore. If it has to remain true to CP 2020's Humanity, they're not the same thing. I do stand by dialog option checks though.
No morality system. So we are all V. Every single player across the globe. No choices, no consequences, because we all make the same choices and suffer the same consequences. We don't need to savescum dialog because there's no risk of failure, and with no morality; we cannot be the bad guy/gal, we cannot be the good guy/gal. So again, dialog and choice means nothing. We don't need to savescum to test different outcomes because the outcome is the same, every single time. So, in reality, there are no stories to tell, no unique experiences as our own V because we can all achieve the exact same outcome in the exact same playthrough. What we lack is cool checks (20% chance to fail if cool is 5/8, for example), technology checks etc. We also lack character depth and weight behind the three origin stories.
This is what morality systems are for, what dialog checks and succession rates/failure chances are for. To offer that unique experience. For me to tell my friends that I made the check and got this outcome, where they had a different experience because they may have failed the check and had to do the bad thing to bypass it or to get a different reward. To threaten someone in order to achieve a different outcome or to warn an ally ahead of time is something sorely missed in CP 2077.
And what the heck is with enemy NPCs having no levels assigned to them? They're either red skull tough, yellow mediocre or grey easy. And no levels on gear? Only the requirement? Guys, did you QA test this at all? This is simple QoL stuff that you can patch in after a week of tinkering. Modders have done this to Oblivion and Skyrim after a week of playing with scripts. Come on guys, you can do bettfer than that and this is the faith we have in you. Anyways:
CP 2077 isn't a traditional role-playing game: it is an FPS action game with RPG elements in it, a looter shooter. And why do police just spawn in wherever they want? There's no investigation, no questioning, no tracking: they're right there with you, even during a crime committed. Pretty efficient eh?
Digressions aside, I have a point to make here. I wanted to play an evil corpo V, making the hard choices and accepting the consequences. Then I wanted to make a paragon Nomad V, being the good guy to see what different outcomes I can experience.
None of this exists. I am also aware that a few people have mentioned this, but they never went into detail past mentioning Karma and Fallout. Fallout is not the only example that uses these systems. Mass Effect did it well, Red Dead Redemption and RDR 2 did it well. Jade Empire did it well (they called it Philosophy). There are countless examples and they all vary, from silent protags to voiced protags so why does Cyberpunk lack this simple feature?
It is *literally* a pen-and-paper borne video game. Or, it was supposed to be. Did CDPR not say themselves that CP 2077 is a "narrative-driven, open world *RPG*..."? Role-playing game. Role-playing games originated in 1974, when Gygax published the first edition (and commercially available iteration) of Dungeons & Dragons.
The idea is to create your own character, from their race to their class, to then tell a deep narrative and go on an adventure. Before you guys all grab your torches and pitchforks, you can have a role-playing game with a pre-made protagonist. Again, I mention Mass Effect. Dragon Age: Origins, the Grey Warden, is another example. Jade Empire has you selecting from many character options. Most modern D&D games have a pre-made roster of characters to play so argue about it anyway, but know that I have done my research and have personal experience on the matter.
V can still be ours, and ours alone, to mould and shape into the character we want them to be: but not at this moment. At this current moment, V is a static, pre-defined and pre-existing, character who we merely control in a linear fashion. All we can do is change their gear and build their passive trees. Yay, such a role-paying experience.
I am so sad right now, that I've had to take a break. I never wanted to. I wanted to be immersed, for months on end like I was with ME1-3, Fallout 3 and New Vegas. But I can put it down without struggle. This is not a good thing, CDPR. Also, the driving is awful. And why do the enemy NPCs in street races teleport all over the roads to keep up with the player? Kinda cheating, isn't it?
Long rant not over, but open for discussion. Go nuts guys.
*edit*
I'm not feeling the morality anymore. If it has to remain true to CP 2020's Humanity, they're not the same thing. I do stand by dialog option checks though.
Post edited December 16, 2020 by Creed255
