I am pretty sure this is true for every RPG. What is the point of stats if you can change them on a whim to suit every situation?

I've never played an RPG where you can "fix" your character as if starting again from scratch. Choices and consequences are a big part of RPG. To suggest that choices not have consequences, I don't agree with that at all. Again, choices have consequences simple as that. That is good game design.

If you find a weapon you want a character to use, then you keep that in mind amd choose the proper proficiency point next time.

It's like real life: if you discover a new interest, set a new goal, and work toward it. A character finds an awesome new weapon that they want to use? They train at it, and then eventually they will be able to use that weapon effectively.

In Baldur's Gate, or any great RPG, you set goals, you make decisions, you accomplish things, you grow as person. If you don't like that, then don't play any more RPGs. You can create multiplayer game and make two or more characters and play by yourself.

Actually, I can think of 3 examples right away:
1. Wizardry: In this game, when you level up, your stats have a 75% chance of changing, and each stat is (assuming the character is still relatively young) more likely to go up than down. Hence, after enough levels, your stats will max out, regardless of what they were originally.
2. Bard's Tale: When you level up, a random stat (but never one that's maxed out) increases by 1. It may take a while (especially if the character isn't a spellcaster), but eventually all stats will max out.
3. Might and Magic 2: There are many spots that can give you permanent stat increases, as long as the stat isn't too high. Even looking later in the series, at, say, World of Xeen, there are enough one-time permanent stat increases that your initial stats don't matter in the long run. (Interestingly, the Xeen case does have you make choices about your stats; it's just that the choices that matter more end-game tend to be those made later in the game.)

Another example is games like Exile and Avernum, where you get some stat points at character creation but get more through leveling up.

The problem is that training a new weapon might not be possible, or might take an unreasonable amount of time due to the way the leveling system works. To reach specialization with a new weapon type, you might need to gain as many as 6 more levels. That may not be possible (especially with BG1's low level cap), or it might take too long.

If you are going to have specific weapon skills, Wizardry 8's model is better. If you find a new weapon and want to be good at it, all you have to do is start using it. Even if you don't gain any levels, you will still gain proficiency with the weapon eventually. In other words, you still have to choose which weapons you are good at, but if you find a shiny new off-hand mace (Wizardry 8 has one), you have a chance of becoming decent at it, even if your level is already really high. In the Baldur's Gate series, once you get too close to the level cap, there's no chance.

The point I am making is that the Baldur's Gate series requires you to make major choices before you have the information to make them and doesn't provide a way to fix the mistakes a new player is going to make.

Of course, this is assuming you can start a multiplayer game. Playing Baldur's Gate 2 (classic) on Linux via WINE, I have not been able to start one.

I don't think the skill system is that hard to figure out if you've played other RPGs. Anybody who's played RPGs, be it D&D or an ARPG like Diablo knows a fighter type needs strength, a rogue needs dexterity and a mage needs intelligence.

Well I fucking hate Turn Based combat in RPGs, but I agree with your first point.

I have the opposite view: I consider Turn Based combat to be one of the defining aspects of an RPG: If you don't have (at least approximately) turn based combat in a game, I can't really consider that game to be an RPG.

Also, why did you have to use a swear word?

As for the stats: what use does Charisma have? Does my fighter need Intelligence or Wisdom? Does Intelligence affect the power of my spells? (Answer to that one is actually "no" in many games including the Infinity Engine games). What's the difference between 6 and 15 strength? (In some games, like Wizardry, the difference is zero.) For a mage, what's the difference between 16 and 18 Constitution? (Again, in Wizardry, 18 Vitality is helpful for a mage, but not here.)

Yes, in those games, the stats change but they are minor changes . There is no reset button for stats in any RPG i know of that can undo major mistakes like you suggest, although I struggle to think what could be a major mistake in Baldur's Gate that would prevent you from being able to play the game. I don't see why you worry about this.

Gaining a new point in a weapon skill in Wizardry has a minor effect. Gaining a new point in a weapon skill in Baldur's Gate has massive effect. The trajectory is the similar. Wizardry is merely finer grained that's all.

Remember, that only warrior classes can attain weapon specialization in the first place.

What information? You want to know exactly what powerful magical weapons you will find beforehand? Aren't treasures supposed to be a surprise, just like in every other RPG?

Every weapon category is viable. There is not any category that is not a good choice. I don't understand why continue to fret so much about this.

Charisma affects NPC reaction (convincing NPCs, getting better quest rewards, etc.). If the party leader (character in the first slot) has high charisma, it will reduce prices when shopping. A leader with high charisma will also increase the morale level of party members and reduce the chance of morale failure.

As for the other stats, you can find that info easily in the charts in the manual and all over the web. As I said before, you just need to look at the manual. I realize Baldur's Gate has a steep learning curve, but asking about very basic information here.

Generally, I think you should stop min-maxing the game just roleplay. Do you want to be smart? Then increase the intelligence. You want to be strong? Increase strength. RPGs don't have to be about powergaming. I personally never do that.

I wouldn't call the stat changes in Might and Magic: Darkside of Xeen minor. There's a fountain early on that lets you add +19 to every one of your characters' stats. When the starting stat range isn't that much different to that of Baldur's gate, I would call that a major change.

Also, in Might and Magic 2, many of the stat changes are of the form "if stat < 50, then stat += 10", which does indeed let you undo major mistakes. In fact, it's enough to fix your characters after triggering the event that sets all stats to 3 permanently.

Also, in Bard's Tale and Wizardry, characters will end up with 18 in all stats, so starting stats are not relevant in the long run. (And in Bard's Tale 1 and 2, spellcasters reach that point easily thanks to the class change mechanic. (3 raised the stat cap to 30.))

Actually, that's not the only major difference. In modern Wizardry (by which I am specifically referring to Wizardry 6, 7, 8, but not the older ones or Japanese spin-offs), you do not need to level up to get skill in a new weapon. Instead, all you need to do is equip the weapon and actually practice using it. Your attacks will be inaccurate at first, but after a while you will become reasonably effective with the weapon. Contrast that to Baldur's Gate, where the only way to gain proficiency in a new weapon type is to level up (and whether you've ever used the weapon before hand doesn't matter).

Imagine if Baldur's Gate was changed so that you could get a star in a weapon type or combat style by using the weapon in real combat (that is, against a hostile creature) 100 times. (The number might need tweaking after playtesting, of course) Then it would be more like Wizardry. (Note that the usual limits on the number of stars you can get in a proficiency would apply, and perhaps Fighters might need minimum levels to go past specialization. To continue the analogy, maybe the only way to improve a weapon past a certain point would be by use, as in Wizardry 8.)

The problem with the approach Baldur's Gate uses is that the only way to get proficiency is to gain levels (and there's a limit to the number you can gain) and there is no reason to use the weapon before than. Wizardry 6-8, on the other hand, encourage you to actually try using the weapon, and you will eventually become good with it without having to gain any levels. This is especially nice when level ups become scarce.

Wizardry has 100 points for each weapon category, BG (iirc - haven't played it for ages) 5 at most. So you can't compare this one-to-one. You gain those points quite fast in Wizardry, though.

Everything else has dtgreene already explained.

personally, BG1 was my first CRPG and I was fascinated as a teen by it. Today I don't play (A)D&D-CRPG's anymore, because I think their rules don't fit into a CRPG. They are simply too rigid and inflexible. I think this is one point where Wizardry really shines, the mix of gaining proficiency by gaining xp and using the skills just works very good.

How do I know that every weapon category is viable before playing the game?

It's not that I don't want to know the exact magical weapons that I find, but rather that I want to be able to actually use the weapons I do find. Maybe I find a weapon that significantly heals the user when hitting an enemy, but because I happen not to have put points into, say, clubs, no-one in my party can actually use the weapon decently. (I am not referring to any actual weapon in the game here.)

The thing with the whole "roleplay" element is that I have never seen it discussed with earlier cRPGs. (The 'c' here means computer, so I am not considering table top RPGs here, which have different characteristics.)

There's also the whole reason I am into the RPG genre in the first place: I actually like optimizing my characters for different roles. Unlike some people, I actually like the math in RPGs, and math in general. I also like the fact that turn-based RPGs focus on the player's intelligence, not her dexterity.

Also, I like using abilities and items with interesting behavior, provided that they are at leat viable.

By the way, why does Baldur's Gate 2 not have any useful cursed items? (Or at least none I am aware of)

Well as for stats not increasing, it is a 2nd edition D&D game after all. I had trouble at first, made a new character after hitting Nashkel, but by then I knew what I was doing.

So you will not play Might and Magic, Fallout, Arcanum, Divine Divinity, etc. either? There is not any choice left if you want both XP and constant skill increase. Basically what you are saying is you don't like RPGs.

Honestly, I think both gaining skill from XP and use is redundant. Using skills should already give XP. That is exactly what XP and levels represents. Constant skill increase in Betrayal at Brondor and in Antara make sense because there is no XP.

Anyways, I don't see what is inflexible about BG compared to Wizardry. Both case, you cannot undo skill gain to put into another skill. You devote time to a skill, you can lose time to a skill. The rate of skill progress is the same. Wizardry is merely finer grained.

AD&D in a BG is a bad system, but it has nothing to do with weapon proficiency. AD&D's suckage has more to do with:
- negative THAC0 being better
- negative AC being better
- AC never improving
- ranged weapons being way overpowered (especially at low levels)
- wizards being way overpowered (at high levels)
- the relative lack of non-combat skills
- thief skills being based on percentage points

If you want to criticise the "rigidity" of Baldur's Gate, I think it makes far more sense to criticize the extremely strict class-based system. Why can't a fighter see traps at all? Why can't a mage use a short sword? That is what you should complain about. To complain about weapon skill system makes no sense when it is so similar to almost every other game, and has a very minor effect on the outcome of character compared to choosing a class. Unless the character is a warrior class, they can't put more than ONE point into a weapon skill anyways...

There are some important differences that are worth noting. For one thing, level ups are limited in Baldur's Gate while XP requirements keep growing exponentially in Wizardry 8 (until integer overflow). In other words, you can't just get another level if you want to learn something new. On the other hand, Wizardry 8 lets you practice a new skill without gaining a level.

Another thing: In Baldur's Gate, there is no reason to using a new weapon type before you gain proficiency. In Wizardry 6-8 (let's remember that Wizardry 1-5 worked differently), equipping a new weapon type would allow you to gain proficiency (at the expense of fighting poorly in the short term). One consequence is that, in Baldur's Gate, if you want to learn a new weapon type late game, you can't, whereas in Wizardry 6-8, you can without any difficulty (class permitting, of course).

A third thing to think about: In Baldur's Gate 2, a wizard with 749,999 experience is no better than one with 375,000 experience points. The problem is even worse with level 14 druids; a Druid at the Shadows of Amn XP cap (just under 3 million) is no better than one at just over half the cap (1.5 million). That is a long time to go without your character improving at all. With Wizardry 6-8's system, you can continue gaining skill increases, so a character about to reach level 11 is typically noticeably more powerful than one of the same class who just reached level 10.

One other problem with the weapon proficiency system is the lack of strategic differences between weapon types. Perhaps if blunt weapons were good against skeletal undead and axes against plant creatures (are there any?), that might help distinguish them. (In this case, blunt weapons should be one skill.) However, what's the difference between a long sword and a bastard sword? (In particular, if you have not played the game before, how would you choose between the two?)

Wouldn't that compound your complaint even further? Because now not only do you have to pick a weapon that you don't know what's available, but monster placement throughout the game is also a factor to consider.

I can see it now

"How was I supposed to know I would mobbed by skeletons in the Trademeet sewers? If I had put points in skeleton killing weapons like flails instead of plant killing weapons like axes, I wouldn't be in this mess"

Oh, as for plant like creatures in BG, I think the closest you can get are dryads and barrels

Don't forget the Ctrl-8 cheat in Baldur's Gate 2 (and in the enhanced editions) that will give everyone 18's (and 18/00 strength even for non-warriors).

The it about needing to know the highest "+" weapons available is precisely the point I am making about weapon proficiencies. (Although, "+" isn't everything; some weapons have other useful properties.) If the proficiency decision weren't so permanent, or if the differences between weapon types were clear and obvious, this wouldn't be as much of a problem. (Example of a game with clear and obvious differences: Lords of Xulima, where Swords bleed (good for killing enemies faster), Maces stun (good for not letting the enemies act in the first place), and Axes wound (eventually making enemies completely nonthreatening).) If that can't be done, I think the game would be better without proficiencies: Give everyone proficiency and warriors the benefits of specialization and be done with it.

In Baldur's Gate 2, there is a shield that reflects beholder rays. For Mind Flayers, Protection from Magical Weapons will allow a mage to tank their attacks (whereas Mirror Image and Stoneskin will not).

Such things tend to flag you as cheater, so I try to avoid them. 18/00 for non-warriors doesn't fit game rules, it basically says Cheater all over it.

Though 25 in all stats you can get during normal gameplay :)) It just takes quite a time.
Alternatively - Cloak of Mirroring. All in all it comes to the point that mages are best tanks in the game - either by their summons or by themselves. Tough lesson I first learnt from Davaeorn (first hints were from Tarnesh). And Throne of Bhaal takes it up to eleven and far-far beyond that :)