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Baldur's Gate seriesAre the EE really that bad?(164 posts)(164 posts)
(164 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 19, 2019
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ZellSF: As I already explained, that's irrelevant to the point I was making that there aren't a 1000 bugs and you're just pulling a number out of your ass.
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Engerek01: If you can't find the bug reports that proves the number is higher than the one you see which is hence relevant.
Higher than the one I see does not automatically mean 1000 no. That could mean there are 217 bugs (not that all the 216 bugs I saw were legit bugs).

It's irrelevant to me disputing that there being 1000 bugs is just a number you pulled out of your ass. You have a better source for "there are 1000 bugs" than "well there are 216 bugs on the tracker and it should be higher than that because I can't find a few of mine"?
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Grogger: I remember looking into something a while ago and stumbled across Beamdog's bug tracker where basically I noticed them closing tickets due to inactivity or something along those lines and if that's any indication their their attitude to tracking bugs it's really bad.
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Hickory: They also close tickets if they "decide without fully checking" (I say that carefully) that it's not a bug when it really is. It's happened to me. They have this attitude, it seems to me, that they want as few tickets as possible. Nobody should be fooled: they DO remove tickets unresolved.
Every bug tracker does for various reasons.

Inactivity actually is a great reason. If you can't solve the bug because you need more information from the person submitting it, and that person is inactive...
Post edited June 19, 2019 by ZellSF
Posted June 19, 2019
This is an interesting conversation. I had no idea there was this kind of controversy.

I played the original version when it came out, did very very badly and quit for a while. I came back to play it later when I looked up FAQ/Walkthroughs online, and discovered I wasn't really playing correctly. I got as far as the final battle, died a bunch of times, and called it quits without finishing it. I got BG2 but only played it for a little bit, there were some aspects of it I couldn't figure out and it didn't grab me the way the first game did, so I quit.

Over a decade later (meaning, a few months ago) I went looking for this game to replay and found out about the EE version. I knew that EE added a couple characters and was optimized for modern versions of Windows, but I didn't know about the other changes. I didn't even notice those changes until this thread. I didn't remember that I had been unable to open inventory while paused, or that the older version didn't highlight background objects that could be interacted with. I don't mind the new characters, because I wanted to play the classic good party anyway (Imoen, Jaheira/Khalid, Minsc/Dynaheir).

I have played both the original and EE, and have no issue with EE (aside from what might be a change in Otiluke's Resilient Sphere in the Ducal Palace fight, but I'll get over that). This seems like something weird to get too upset about, but I wasn't here for the modding community that seems to be offended based on some posts in this thread.
Posted June 19, 2019
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tchntm43: I wasn't here for the modding community that seems to be offended based on some posts in this thread.
The modding community is not offended. Nor was anything "stolen" from modders, as the mods that were incorporated into the EEs were done so with permission from the authors.

The modding community is a fraction of what it was (the game is 20 years old after all) but those of us that are still around continue modding both EEs and the original--e.g. the BG2 Fixpack just underwent its largest expansion since its release thanks to the bugs identified by the EEs. If anything the EEs have revitalized the modding communities as some folks who were gone came back, as well as inspired a new generation of modders.

Like any community, it's composed of individuals and opinions run the gamut. While a few modders hate the EEs, for the most part it's been embraced--there really is a lot of stuff you can only do on the EEs, modding-wise.
Posted June 21, 2019
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LightningYu: Thanks for your Answers.
I'm kinda split on this if i read the responses, due:
I watched some Gameplay of both, and i've to say if it comes down to UI and Cutscenes, i prefer the EE, due both of them really looks somewhat dated and less intuitive in original / classic. Howevern at the Point here, where people pointed out that Beamdog addes some political Agenda to the Characters it's kind of an lackluster. I'm one of these People, who thinks except for Games which Story focus on that, there shouldn't be any kind of political correctnes / agenda forced to the Games.
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Zaxares: You needn't worry about political correctness or agenda being forced on you in the EE games. I've played through both games as well as SoD and there's barely any mention of it. The most you'll probably notice as a new character is a somewhat drastic shift in a particular character's personality between BG1 and SoD, although given that the NPCs in BG1 were pretty threadbare to begin with, it's entirely plausible that it was something there from the start and just not given much attention to.
Cool story. https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/sp/dnce7jw3633a.jpg
Posted June 21, 2019
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Zaxares: You needn't worry about political correctness or agenda being forced on you in the EE games. I've played through both games as well as SoD and there's barely any mention of it. The most you'll probably notice as a new character is a somewhat drastic shift in a particular character's personality between BG1 and SoD, although given that the NPCs in BG1 were pretty threadbare to begin with, it's entirely plausible that it was something there from the start and just not given much attention to.
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Stig79: Cool story. https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/sp/dnce7jw3633a.jpg
Heh. Well, as someone who played a male character, I never saw this conversation. That said, would your male Bhaalspawn react well if somebody just walked up to you with a lewd grin and said, "Ho there, boytoy!" (Well, I suppose you COULD, if you were roleplaying a submissive nymphomaniac, but that's probably beyond the scope of most dialogue options. There's always mods if you wanna fix that.)
Posted June 21, 2019
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Zaxares: You needn't worry about political correctness or agenda being forced on you in the EE games.
What a load of bollocks. Yeah, no political correctness there...
Post edited June 21, 2019 by Hickory
Posted June 21, 2019
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Stig79: Cool story. https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/sp/dnce7jw3633a.jpg
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Zaxares: Heh. Well, as someone who played a male character, I never saw this conversation. That said, would your male Bhaalspawn react well if somebody just walked up to you with a lewd grin and said, "Ho there, boytoy!" (Well, I suppose you COULD, if you were roleplaying a submissive nymphomaniac, but that's probably beyond the scope of most dialogue options. There's always mods if you wanna fix that.)
Notice that every single option presented there is some form of "I'm seriously offended and have no wit."

There is nothing to equivalent of laughing it off. There is nothing to counter-insult the speaker. Not even a simple "What's your pleasure, harlot?"

If some rando walked up to me like that, I'm not going to be aggressively offended, I'm going to be a little surprised and likely respond in kind.
Posted June 22, 2019
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Zaxares: You needn't worry about political correctness or agenda being forced on you in the EE games.
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Hickory: What a load of bollocks. Yeah, no political correctness there...
As I said, I was not aware that this exchange existed because I was playing on a male character. I played through the entirety of Siege of Dragonspear and completed every single sidequest and this is perhaps the one exchange that I'm now aware of that could be construed as being "politically correct". Even if it was, I'd argue that the reactions are mostly realistic. You're the Hero of Baldur's Gate, cheered by commoners, feted by nobles, a powerful adventurer that's achieved FAR more than the average Faerunian will ever be able to dream of. As I used in my example above, I wouldn't be pleased if some rando walked up to me and said "Hey, pretty boy!" or words to similar effect.

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Bookwyrm627: Notice that every single option presented there is some form of "I'm seriously offended and have no wit."

There is nothing to equivalent of laughing it off. There is nothing to counter-insult the speaker. Not even a simple "What's your pleasure, harlot?"

If some rando walked up to me like that, I'm not going to be aggressively offended, I'm going to be a little surprised and likely respond in kind.
This is a fair complaint. There is the "Are you talking to me?" option, which could be interpreted a number of ways, but I concur that there's no option to flirt back or mock Voghiln in turn. (Which strikes me as being a bit odd, considering he's a romance option.) Most other dialogues will have a Good/Neutral/Evil response; #1 looks like the Neutral option (or maybe it opens up more paths where Voghiln apologizes), #2 looks like the Good option (willing to forgive the mistakes of others), and #4 and 5 seem like the hostile/Evil options.

Perhaps I need to dig into the dialogue files and see just how and when this exchange shows up. I wonder if this exchange shows up all the time for female characters, or whether he only says it if you insulted or blew him off on their first meeting (this is not where you meet Voghiln for the first time. It's where he will show up at the camp if you do not accept his offer to join the party after the first meeting.)
Posted June 22, 2019
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Zaxares: Even if it was, I'd argue that the reactions are mostly realistic.
Translation: "I'm an apologist."
Posted June 22, 2019
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Hickory: What a load of bollocks. Yeah, no political correctness there...
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Zaxares: As I said, I was not aware that this exchange existed because I was playing on a male character. I played through the entirety of Siege of Dragonspear and completed every single sidequest and this is perhaps the one exchange that I'm now aware of that could be construed as being "politically correct". Even if it was, I'd argue that the reactions are mostly realistic. You're the Hero of Baldur's Gate, cheered by commoners, feted by nobles, a powerful adventurer that's achieved FAR more than the average Faerunian will ever be able to dream of. As I used in my example above, I wouldn't be pleased if some rando walked up to me and said "Hey, pretty boy!" or words to similar effect.

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Bookwyrm627: Notice that every single option presented there is some form of "I'm seriously offended and have no wit."

There is nothing to equivalent of laughing it off. There is nothing to counter-insult the speaker. Not even a simple "What's your pleasure, harlot?"

If some rando walked up to me like that, I'm not going to be aggressively offended, I'm going to be a little surprised and likely respond in kind.
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Zaxares: This is a fair complaint. There is the "Are you talking to me?" option, which could be interpreted a number of ways, but I concur that there's no option to flirt back or mock Voghiln in turn. (Which strikes me as being a bit odd, considering he's a romance option.) Most other dialogues will have a Good/Neutral/Evil response; #1 looks like the Neutral option (or maybe it opens up more paths where Voghiln apologizes), #2 looks like the Good option (willing to forgive the mistakes of others), and #4 and 5 seem like the hostile/Evil options.

Perhaps I need to dig into the dialogue files and see just how and when this exchange shows up. I wonder if this exchange shows up all the time for female characters, or whether he only says it if you insulted or blew him off on their first meeting (this is not where you meet Voghiln for the first time. It's where he will show up at the camp if you do not accept his offer to join the party after the first meeting.)
This isn't your first meeting and THESE are the responses you are allowed to give? That's...really, really weak writing. :-/

I haven't seen many examples of the dialogue, but what I have seen has been distinctly unimpressive.
Posted June 23, 2019
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Zaxares: Heh. Well, as someone who played a male character, I never saw this conversation. That said, would your male Bhaalspawn react well if somebody just walked up to you with a lewd grin and said, "Ho there, boytoy!" (Well, I suppose you COULD, if you were roleplaying a submissive nymphomaniac, but that's probably beyond the scope of most dialogue options. There's always mods if you wanna fix that.)
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Bookwyrm627: Notice that every single option presented there is some form of "I'm seriously offended and have no wit."

There is nothing to equivalent of laughing it off. There is nothing to counter-insult the speaker. Not even a simple "What's your pleasure, harlot?"

If some rando walked up to me like that, I'm not going to be aggressively offended, I'm going to be a little surprised and likely respond in kind.
I know, right? The word "wench" isn't even offensive in The Forgotten Realms.

The writer gives no other option than "get offended". That is some really rotten writing in a roleplaying game. The author giving the player no other option than to get offended by something that offends her.
Posted June 23, 2019
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Stig79: I know, right? The word "wench" isn't even offensive in The Forgotten Realms.
It might not be offensive the way we think of 'offensive', but to be fair, it isn't a term of address that carries any connotation of respect.

The lack of imagination in responses to it is still regrettable.
Posted June 23, 2019
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Stig79: I know, right? The word "wench" isn't even offensive in The Forgotten Realms.
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Bookwyrm627: It might not be offensive the way we think of 'offensive', but to be fair, it isn't a term of address that carries any connotation of respect.
'Wench' is a Middle English abbreviation of 'wenchel', meaning child, girl, maiden.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary/MED52199

Usage is what makes it disrespectful.
Posted June 23, 2019
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Bookwyrm627: It might not be offensive the way we think of 'offensive', but to be fair, it isn't a term of address that carries any connotation of respect.
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Hickory: 'Wench' is a Middle English abbreviation of 'wenchel', meaning child, girl, maiden.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary/MED52199

Usage is what makes it disrespectful.
That is certainly a different context from all my familiarity with the term.

I'm used to things like "Wench! More ale!"
Posted June 23, 2019
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Hickory: 'Wench' is a Middle English abbreviation of 'wenchel', meaning child, girl, maiden.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary/MED52199

Usage is what makes it disrespectful.
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Bookwyrm627: That is certainly a different context from all my familiarity with the term.

I'm used to things like "Wench! More ale!"
Like I said, usage is what makes it disrespectful.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
Baldur's Gate seriesAre the EE really that bad?(164 posts)(164 posts)
(164 posts)