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Age of Wonders seriesAoW 3 - Not really DRM free?(304 posts)(304 posts)
(304 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 06, 2014
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vrmlbasic: If we have to have keys, perhaps GOG could make buying them less of a pain in the ass? Why can't I buy several keys with one account? Having to make multiple dummy accounts just so I can have a copy of the game on my computers is ludicrous.
That's something to hold "against" GOG, it's not a fault of this game. GOG is not set up so you can own multiple copies (few distributors are). Maybe that will change, but I doubt it as it applies to a tiny selection of games.

One thing I've noticed about this discussion is no-one has really put forward a solid way to have online multiplayer across multiple platforms (GOG and Steam at the least) whilst ensuring copies are legitimate without this account system. It's free, it's non-intrusive, it doesn't stop you playing single player. As has been stated numerous times now, AoW3 is not the first game on GOG to require a CD Key or 3rd Party Account for use of the multiplayer functions. Yes, it could be a little less invasive (i.e. not the first page you see on the launcher), but would you rather know straight away or be confronted with it when looking into MP for the first time?

I've seen no alternatives, just nostalgic want of old multiplayer schemes that do not seem to be as relevant nor as simple as they once were.
Posted April 06, 2014
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coldalarm: It's free, it's non-intrusive
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coldalarm: Yes, it could be a little less invasive
How could it be a little less invasive if it’s non-intrusive?

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coldalarm: would you rather know straight away or be confronted with it when looking into MP for the first time?
I’d rather know if a game contained some form of third-party subscription right away, as most customers of GoG would, and we can because the notice is now on the Age of Wonders 3 GoG page. I don’t need a login screen to pop up every time the game starts, have to manually select the guest account each time, and watch my new title plastered on the main menu.
Posted April 06, 2014
I didn't read everything and only make a short statment to the topic.

To use all feature of the game i have to create a thriumph-account and be logged in, even for SP (Settings can't be saved as a guest,...)

That's DRM, a mild one as it seems but still DRM.
Posted April 06, 2014
Well we seem to have two sides now regarding the drm issue with this game:

1. It seems that some people can't even play single player in full with all the features without making an online account. It seems that this is true for a part off users and this might be some programing problem in the game.
2. Some people report that it only affects the multiplayer and you don't need to make an online account in order to use the full features of the game.

I think that it is fair to warn the people who value drm-free games that they should be aware that there is a high posibillity that there are drm measures implemented in this game that might not just be limited to an online multiplayer account. Afterall GOG is all about 100% drm-free games.
And yes online accounts for multiplayer fall under the official drm measures definition.
Post edited April 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted April 06, 2014
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DF1871: I didn't read everything and only make a short statment to the topic.

To use all feature of the game i have to create a thriumph-account and be logged in, even for SP (Settings can't be saved as a guest,...)

That's DRM, a mild one as it seems but still DRM.
Just to let you know. The next patch should fix the save settings problem in guest account.
Post edited April 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted April 06, 2014
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EPurpl3: Is not a big difference between the games, the first time registration part of SC2 is so insignificant that makes is look like creating a GOG account to buy the game. Than you want to download the updates (after you install it from DVD, if you have the retail version) or the whole game if you do not have the retail version, that is similar to logging in to GOG and downloading AoW 3.
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Kardwill: There IS a big difference.
Last year, when I took my new appartment, I had no internet for a few month. I could still play GOG games : I downloaded them when I was at my parent's house for the weekend, copied the installer on a USB key, and installed it on my computer later.
SC2's DRM would simply prevent me from installing in this situation.
Yes, it is a big difference between the 2 examples, on SC2 is easier, you don't even have to download SC2 from a web site, you could just install it from the DVD... you have a DVD reader, right?!?!?!?!
Posted April 06, 2014
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Kardwill: There IS a big difference.
Last year, when I took my new appartment, I had no internet for a few month. I could still play GOG games : I downloaded them when I was at my parent's house for the weekend, copied the installer on a USB key, and installed it on my computer later.
SC2's DRM would simply prevent me from installing in this situation.
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EPurpl3: Yes, it is a big difference between the 2 examples, on SC2 is easier, you don't even have to download SC2 from a web site, you could just install it from the DVD... you have a DVD reader, right?!?!?!?!
You need to activate the account online for SC2 in order to play and have a persistent online connection. Its not possible to play SC2 without an internet connection. But you are right that you can install it from a dvd.
Post edited April 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted April 06, 2014
low rated
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AstralWanderer: Previous versions of Age of Wonders offered several options for multiplayer (Internet, LAN, PBEM) which didn't rely on a single server or publisher and therefore can be expected to work indefinitely.

It's fine for Triumph to provide an optional service requiring a login, but until the choices present in previous versions of AoW are restored, this login is compulsory for muliplayer and therefore qualifies as DRM (the acid test being "Will this work after the publisher closes down?"). Yes, there are similar (and worse) examples, but this is from a store that marketed itself from the start as "100% DRM-free" and who's MD stated recently:

"To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it..."

Kudos to Triumph though - they seem to have been able to persuade GOG to ditch two core principles, fair pricing and DRM-free gaming. Not even EA could manage that.
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BKGaming: From my understanding AOW3 doesn't have LAN... If you have to connect to a server to play with someone in the same house that isn't LAN. So you can be mad that they didn't include all the past features, but I can see why honestly LAN and PBEM are not very popular today as they were 10 years ago.

Now if they game really did have LAN, meaning no connecting to there servers instead it was a direct IP connection and still required you to make an online account... then you have little more to complain about. That I can consider DRM.

This doesn't make it DRM though by how the game is currently done. Multiplayer is a service... I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. It always has been and it can be taken away at any point.

So why is it suddenly a big deal to create account when A) You're online anyway B) Using a service that won't last forever anyway and C) Doesn't actually restrict you from doing anything with the actual game from how it's currently done.

Can you install as many times as you want? Yes.
Can you install it on any PC you want? Yes.
Can you copy it? Yes.
Can you play offline? Yes.
Are all the offline features available to you offline? Yes.
Is everything physically included with the download available to you with zero restrictions? Yes.

The game itself is DRM free... this is just nitpicking from a retro gamers who don't like the way modern gaming is heading. Creating accounts when accessing mutiplayer is as old as the internet and gaming.
Damn, your stupid, really... from my point of view you are a fucking retard. YOU ARE SHIT!!! Do you event know what DRM is? Just shut the fuck up next time when u want to say ANYTHING!!!

"DRM technologies enable content publishers to enforce their own access policies on content, like restrictions on copying or viewing" I will note that also like PLAYING (multiplayer or singleplayer).

You stupid fuck, what is modern gaming all about?!?! is about MULTIPLAYER, GOG and Triumph adds a restriction to the multiplayer, the main part of modern gaming. This shit is with DRM, you are shit and I will never buy GOG games again.
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EPurpl3: Yes, it is a big difference between the 2 examples, on SC2 is easier, you don't even have to download SC2 from a web site, you could just install it from the DVD... you have a DVD reader, right?!?!?!?!
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Matruchus: You need to activate the account online for SC2 in order to play and have a persistent online connection. Its not possible to play SC2 without an internet connection. But you are right that you can install it from a dvd.
LOL, you just go to your parents house and register it!!! is easier than downloading the game from website and transport it on USB!!!!! As long as the game has a offline mode than you can play it offline on single player. Why would the game had a offline mode if you could only use that mode online?!!?! ....amazing, so many stupid people!!
Post edited April 06, 2014 by EPurpl3
Posted April 06, 2014
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BKGaming: From my understanding AOW3 doesn't have LAN... If you have to connect to a server to play with someone in the same house that isn't LAN. So you can be mad that they didn't include all the past features, but I can see why honestly LAN and PBEM are not very popular today as they were 10 years ago.

Now if they game really did have LAN, meaning no connecting to there servers instead it was a direct IP connection and still required you to make an online account... then you have little more to complain about. That I can consider DRM.

This doesn't make it DRM though by how the game is currently done. Multiplayer is a service... I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. It always has been and it can be taken away at any point.

So why is it suddenly a big deal to create account when A) You're online anyway B) Using a service that won't last forever anyway and C) Doesn't actually restrict you from doing anything with the actual game from how it's currently done.

Can you install as many times as you want? Yes.
Can you install it on any PC you want? Yes.
Can you copy it? Yes.
Can you play offline? Yes.
Are all the offline features available to you offline? Yes.
Is everything physically included with the download available to you with zero restrictions? Yes.

The game itself is DRM free... this is just nitpicking from a retro gamers who don't like the way modern gaming is heading. Creating accounts when accessing mutiplayer is as old as the internet and gaming.
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EPurpl3: Damn, your stupid, really... from my point of view you are a fucking retard. YOU ARE SHIT!!! Do you event know what DRM is? Just shut the fuck up next time when u want to say ANYTHING!!!

"DRM technologies enable content publishers to enforce their own access policies on content, like restrictions on copying or viewing" I will note that also like PLAYING (multiplayer or singleplayer).

You stupid fuck, what is modern gaming all about?!?! is about MULTIPLAYER, GOG and Triumph adds a restriction to the multiplayer, the main part of modern gaming. This shit is with DRM, you are shit and I will never buy GOG games again.
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Matruchus: You need to activate the account online for SC2 in order to play and have a persistent online connection. Its not possible to play SC2 without an internet connection. But you are right that you can install it from a dvd.
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EPurpl3: LOL, you just go to your parents house and register it!!! is easier than downloading the game from website and transport it on USB!!!!! As long as the game has a offline mode than you can play it offline on single player. Why would the game had a offline mode if you could only use that mode online?!!?! ....amazing, so many stupid people!!
I own SC2 and there is no offline mode. If I disconect internet connection the game logs out and does not allow me to play.
Post edited April 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted April 06, 2014
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EPurpl3: Damn, your stupid, really... from my point of view you are a fucking retard. YOU ARE SHIT!!! Do you event know what DRM is? Just shut the fuck up next time when u want to say ANYTHING!!!

"DRM technologies enable content publishers to enforce their own access policies on content, like restrictions on copying or viewing" I will note that also like PLAYING (multiplayer or singleplayer).

You stupid fuck, what is modern gaming all about?!?! is about MULTIPLAYER, GOG and Triumph adds a restriction to the multiplayer, the main part of modern gaming. This shit is with DRM, you are shit and I will never buy GOG games again.

LOL, you just go to your parents house and register it!!! is easier than downloading the game from website and transport it on USB!!!!! As long as the game has a offline mode than you can play it offline on single player. Why would the game had a offline mode if you could only use that mode online?!!?! ....amazing, so many stupid people!!
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Matruchus: I own SC2 and there is no offline mode. If I disconect internet connection the game logs out and does not allow me to play.
Can you read?!?!? https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/running-starcraft-ii-in-offline-mode
Posted April 06, 2014
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Matruchus: I own SC2 and there is no offline mode. If I disconect internet connection the game logs out and does not allow me to play.
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EPurpl3: Can you read?!?!? https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/running-starcraft-ii-in-offline-mode
Ok will check this out. But this was not available before. Does this include full access to your account offline or is this similar to AOW3 guest bullshit.
Post edited April 06, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted April 06, 2014
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EPurpl3: Can you read?!?!? https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/running-starcraft-ii-in-offline-mode
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Matruchus: Ok will check this out. But this was not available before. Does this include full access to your account offline or is this similar to AOW3 guest bullshit.
No, actually this was available since version 1.0, since we all bought the retail version, the difference was that you did not have to log in once every 30 day to be able to play offline. Now it seams that they have added that DRM feature which sucks. However, at version 1.0 the game had a bug which did not allow you to play offline mode all the time (sometimes you could and sometimes you could not, some players could and some not, just random. This was fixed years ago). I bet that was a intentional bug to keep you online, same thing that happens with the bugs of AoW 3, you can not play DLC offline, you can not save offline, etc. I bet that this are parts of the DRM that will be fixed in a following version after the hype has gone. Is so obvious that this game has DRM, those who have a different opinion than me, from my point of view, are stupid and retarded!!! I just want to be clear on that!!!!
Post edited April 06, 2014 by EPurpl3
Posted April 06, 2014
I don't care how you slice it.. LAN should be implemented once the game has been out for a certain period of time.

The way it works now is most definitely a form of DRM.
Posted April 06, 2014
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EPurpl3: Damn, your stupid, really... from my point of view you are a fucking retard. YOU ARE SHIT!!! Do you event know what DRM is? Just shut the fuck up next time when u want to say ANYTHING!!!

"DRM technologies enable content publishers to enforce their own access policies on content, like restrictions on copying or viewing" I will note that also like PLAYING (multiplayer or singleplayer).

You stupid fuck, what is modern gaming all about?!?! is about MULTIPLAYER, GOG and Triumph adds a restriction to the multiplayer, the main part of modern gaming. This shit is with DRM, you are shit and I will never buy GOG games again.
Wow somebody didn't get there Wheaties today, did they? What are you like 12 or 13?

I can't help it if you take a broad definition of DRM and think that applies to a service that you are not even entitled to get access to anyway. Gaming has been around a lot longer than multiplayer and it will be around long after mulitplayer servers are shut down.

So let me ask you this if Triumph gives you access to multiplayer using there servers but gives you complete access to it without an account? Would you still consider that DRM? I would say no you wouldn't because Triumph would not be restricting you, however I ask you what does it matter when both still end with Triumph shutting down there servers eventually like every company does for multiplayer? You would still lose access.

99% of people who play multiplayer know this basic understanding, it always ends at some point. These services end at some point... Gamespy just shut down, EA kills I don't know how many servers each year. Clinging to something that will sill meet the same fate rather there is restrictions or no restrictions is stupid.

I am curious though... where are you going to buy games from then if not GOG? Oh that's right almost all AAA games today release with online accounts on all digital stores. Have fun with you indies.
Posted April 06, 2014
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Kardwill: There IS a big difference.
Last year, when I took my new appartment, I had no internet for a few month. I could still play GOG games : I downloaded them when I was at my parent's house for the weekend, copied the installer on a USB key, and installed it on my computer later.
SC2's DRM would simply prevent me from installing in this situation.
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EPurpl3: Yes, it is a big difference between the 2 examples, on SC2 is easier, you don't even have to download SC2 from a web site, you could just install it from the DVD... you have a DVD reader, right?!?!?!?!
Yes, but taking my massive Desktop in a long a long train-and-subway travel to my parent's house to activate the game with their connection (You said you had to activate the thing online, right?) would NOT have been an option. Getting a GOG downloader on a mobile support (USB key in my case) was simple enough, even for a computer-clumsy guy like me.
And if I keep that installer, I will be able to get the game on any computer I want in the future, no internet required. Even if the publisher goes down next year. It's an idea I like.

Oh, by the way : Your rude, insulting tone (heavily implied by the "?!?!?!") on the last sentence does NOT amuse me. I've tried to be respectful in my opposition to you. Please do the same.
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Age of Wonders seriesAoW 3 - Not really DRM free?(304 posts)(304 posts)
(304 posts)