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I had the greatest wizard-fail though it wasn't technically Allor's fault. I was trying to do the solo Allor in Orc Pursuit trick so I could at least figure out if I was going to get bad luck with the random spells and know he won't be able to save the day at Shattered Pass (which I have faint but horrible memories of). Things were going well enough, but I misclicked when two banners were a bit too close together and watched in stunned horror as a hunting spear flew out and struck Carlsson's family, a tiny scream as some of the figures fell.

I don't think the Grudgebringers are getting any more work from Sven.

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BlackBob.472: The best way to level alor up in memory is to use him to clean up fleeing units, when a unit is routed hunting spear will kills lots quickly due to their decreased toughness,

But be careful that none of your units are running down the people your trying to hunting spear as accidents can happen!


Great vs cavalry chuck the curse on them and then a few hunting spear's when they turn tail and run.

Also

Fezred yep got to agree the multiple different ways to play the campaign! Straight to zhufbar and the 75th cavalry I did not discover until my 7/8 play through of the game :D

As for straight to the elvish homelands now they were some fun missions to try and figure out (failed so far) I nearly managed the orc mission using the mortars and alor, group both mortars and alor tightly in the far back corner and cast the spell which stops movement just in front of them making it impossible for units to engage them directly.... but when ever I got down to the last few units both mortars have usually miss fired and exploded, alor cant use hunting spear since his first spell blocks any path it could take and if he removes the first spell they will instantly get slaughtered :(

The other way I have tried for that level is blind firing the orc boar boys that retreat from the tent on the far right hand side with the mortars, out of 20 odd attempts i only managed to hit them once and that killed 3/5 of them, I always wondered if you managed to kill them would it stop the reinforcements from arriving..... still sorry for the wrongly named spells and places but this is going on a very old memory of the game :D
Hunting spear accidents especially suck because they seem to do far more damage then when targeting enemies.

I've read that those missions to Loren without reaching Zhufbar first are actually impossible; even if you kill every enemy regiment you still fail (or it'll crash the game when trying to load what to do next--I've heard both ways). Enough magic items that it might be worth a visit, if your finances are holding up and you don't mind using Ceridan as ablative armor while another regiment grabs them then everyone running as soon as they get charged.

The split is an interesting decision from a gameplay perspective. Trying to go to Loren immediately seems like a bad move; I believe you miss out on the 75th AND the mortars and Ragnar's Wolves, making it a bit of a "trap" option. Going with Carlsson gets you some extra money, a good bit of experience, and Ragnar plus the two Mortar units. Straight to Zhufbar gets you the 75th (who seem a lot better than the Wolves from what I can tell) and, I believe, means no Wyvern-rider fight.
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Daren: I had the greatest wizard-fail though it wasn't technically Allor's fault. I was trying to do the solo Allor in Orc Pursuit trick so I could at least figure out if I was going to get bad luck with the random spells and know he won't be able to save the day at Shattered Pass (which I have faint but horrible memories of). Things were going well enough, but I misclicked when two banners were a bit too close together and watched in stunned horror as a hunting spear flew out and struck Carlsson's family, a tiny scream as some of the figures fell.

I don't think the Grudgebringers are getting any more work from Sven.

avatar
BlackBob.472: The best way to level alor up in memory is to use him to clean up fleeing units, when a unit is routed hunting spear will kills lots quickly due to their decreased toughness,

But be careful that none of your units are running down the people your trying to hunting spear as accidents can happen!

Great vs cavalry chuck the curse on them and then a few hunting spear's when they turn tail and run.

Also

Fezred yep got to agree the multiple different ways to play the campaign! Straight to zhufbar and the 75th cavalry I did not discover until my 7/8 play through of the game :D

As for straight to the elvish homelands now they were some fun missions to try and figure out (failed so far) I nearly managed the orc mission using the mortars and alor, group both mortars and alor tightly in the far back corner and cast the spell which stops movement just in front of them making it impossible for units to engage them directly.... but when ever I got down to the last few units both mortars have usually miss fired and exploded, alor cant use hunting spear since his first spell blocks any path it could take and if he removes the first spell they will instantly get slaughtered :(

The other way I have tried for that level is blind firing the orc boar boys that retreat from the tent on the far right hand side with the mortars, out of 20 odd attempts i only managed to hit them once and that killed 3/5 of them, I always wondered if you managed to kill them would it stop the reinforcements from arriving..... still sorry for the wrongly named spells and places but this is going on a very old memory of the game :D
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Daren: Hunting spear accidents especially suck because they seem to do far more damage then when targeting enemies.

I've read that those missions to Loren without reaching Zhufbar first are actually impossible; even if you kill every enemy regiment you still fail (or it'll crash the game when trying to load what to do next--I've heard both ways). Enough magic items that it might be worth a visit, if your finances are holding up and you don't mind using Ceridan as ablative armor while another regiment grabs them then everyone running as soon as they get charged.

The split is an interesting decision from a gameplay perspective. Trying to go to Loren immediately seems like a bad move; I believe you miss out on the 75th AND the mortars and Ragnar's Wolves, making it a bit of a "trap" option. Going with Carlsson gets you some extra money, a good bit of experience, and Ragnar plus the two Mortar units. Straight to Zhufbar gets you the 75th (who seem a lot better than the Wolves from what I can tell) and, I believe, means no Wyvern-rider fight.
Have you noticed that the hunting spear always does an insane amount of damage to your own troops while it kills only one or two enemy soldiers. A few times I look in horror as it decimated my own regiments killing half of it in a short period of time... Never witnessed the same happening when it hit the enemy,,,
The first few times I completed the game I took the easy route of getting mortars etc, artillery really does rule the late game!

But it does make it more interesting trying to only use infantry and cavalry units! If you leave the human capital and don't do any of the missions the emperor summons you and give you an extra cavalry unit also!

My favourite time playing the game I set myself the challenge of getting the black avengers to 6000xp so the massive unit of infantry also had 2 health points each! It did mean spending ages at the end of each map using them to kill fleeing units, sacrificing other units to save their feeble arses! But in the end a very satisfying game!

What xp gives units, Someone probably knows exactly but its left my mind currently!

2000 xp = 1 Weapon/Ballistic Skill?
4000 xp = 1 ?
6000 xp = 1 Health Point
The second advancement is +1 strength I believe.

Also regarding the OP's Wizard failures, sometimes a spell will fail if you are too near a unit that has an anti magic item such as the Banner of Arcane Protection or the Obsidian Talsiman, so it's best to keep them seperated.
My Mercenary Crossbows actually got a +1 to weapon skill instead of ballistics skill at the first upgrade. Either the manual was wrong or the regiment isn't considered a ranged unit for some reason.

Leveling Allor is completely worth it. I have no idea how I'd have gotten past Shattered Pass or the first Zhufbar ambush without Flock of Doom.
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BlackBob.472: I always wondered if you managed to kill them would it stop the reinforcements from arriving..... still sorry for the wrongly named spells and places but this is going on a very old memory of the game :D
As far as I know the three "doomed" missions with the great magical rewards are all impossible to win even if you do beat everyone (which I've heard some players manage with at least one or two of those maps, totally clearing them out)! When the commander or other characters announces that it would be best to flee the game changes the icon to allow you to leave the map right away (to save on losses). You can safely flee those maps without losing anyone that way and with luck get the magic items too. It's then up to the player to find the hidden goodies or to run away, so they weren't unfair about it when making them. Certainly the rewards are good and worth risking dashing in and out. It's a fun challenge to try to beat them anyway by going back to your saves, treating it as a skirmish or challenge map. Some players have managed it, which is impressive. Sounds like you're getting close to it though, so that might be a feather in your own cap soon! You can try going there at various points with different troops and experience levels.

I think the idea of the map and the way it plays out story-wise is that you're attempting to go through the pass and what you fight isn't ALL of the enemy in the pass, rather the first things you find at the entrance of that route and so a sign of the far too high resistance you will encounter all the way through, hence the order to flee and forget that route.

I really liked Ragnar's Wolves but something about the 75th is just so cool. They also kick ass, especially once you add in the magical boots that are available. In Dark Omen Ragnar got a second chance to be cool anyway and swing big axes about that time. ;)
The hunting spear is so good I wouldn't want it to be any better. Allor can bring down virtually any killable single unit with it and do heavy damage to larger groups. I've used him frequently to take out mages, even that nasty one riding the even nastier "pet". Sometimes it feels like it does more damage to your own units because your own guys are more precious to you and you tend to remember and resent those losses when it goes wrong more and also because many of the enemy have good stats and multiple wounds (AKA "hitpoints") while humans mostly have only one when lower level and so go down easy. When you're blasting weaker skaven with Allor's spells (or high value special units) it more than makes up for it all.

Getting the Reiksguard Knights from the Emperor was another nice path choice diversion. If you take them with you to Loren you even get an extra mini cutscene. :) They are also excellent units, the best cavalry you can get in the game, even better than the 75th, magic items and XP levelling aside and also have a good leader for the unit.

The last upgrade for experience is +1 WOUND, which is an amazing upgrade. It's almost like doubling the size of the regiment but with the added advantage of not having to keep getting so many replacements. With that upgrade they'll even start surviving things that used to cause total unit kills, like high level spells and explosions.

Allor is so good he almost always ends up max level halfway. Hunting Spear + Flock of Doom gets him a ton of XP. Once you max him or another unit, try to rotate them out or hold them in reserve on a map so you can get as much XP to everyone as possible. Once someone has hit top level you're sort of wasting the XP. Let others do the mop ups at the very least.
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Fezred: The hunting spear is so good I wouldn't want it to be any better. Allor can bring down virtually any killable single unit with it and do heavy damage to larger groups. I've used him frequently to take out mages, even that nasty one riding the even nastier "pet". Sometimes it feels like it does more damage to your own units because your own guys are more precious to you and you tend to remember and resent those losses when it goes wrong more and also because many of the enemy have good stats and multiple wounds (AKA "hitpoints") while humans mostly have only one when lower level and so go down easy. When you're blasting weaker skaven with Allor's spells (or high value special units) it more than makes up for it all.
Yeah, Hunting Spear is a great for killing dangerous single targets like enemy wizards, warp fire throwers, and monsters like trolls or rat ogres. I found it didn't work too well on the Wyvern (for some reason the spears would fail to hit, following it around at a distance instead), though.

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Fezred: The last upgrade for experience is +1 WOUND, which is an amazing upgrade. It's almost like doubling the size of the regiment but with the added advantage of not having to keep getting so many replacements. With that upgrade they'll even start surviving things that used to cause total unit kills, like high level spells and explosions.

Allor is so good he almost always ends up max level halfway. Hunting Spear + Flock of Doom gets him a ton of XP. Once you max him or another unit, try to rotate them out or hold them in reserve on a map so you can get as much XP to everyone as possible. Once someone has hit top level you're sort of wasting the XP. Let others do the mop ups at the very least.
+1 wound is amazing, though I find it hard to get infantry experience since they always get chewed up by the enemy units, as many of their regiments have better stats than your human fighters--even regular Orc Boyz are better then human infantry, and Black Orcs and Big 'Uns are both much stronger and very common before long. Cavalry is alot easier since they're strong and can ride down routers.

Flock of Doom is so ridiculous Allor ended up hogging Exp even after maxing out (which you can do VERY early on if you let him handle Orc Pursuit alone by using the Charge button to outmaneuver the enemy regiments and pick them off with Hunting Spears). I always find myself getting swamped if he doesn't destroy a few units with Flock of Doom, though. For some reason the skaven almost never seem to rout from missile fire anymore.
With alor ration his xp to level up in zhubar to get flock of doom and I think bug mans brewery to get "flying bowa" name could be wrong, but it allows him to teleport anywhere on the map. You can kite the enemy the length of the map flocking the enemy and then just flying bowa along to the opposite side of them and kite them back across the length of the map again.... ok the game dose kind of lose entertainment at that stage buts its great for the first time you do it!
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Daren: +1 wound is amazing, though I find it hard to get infantry experience since they always get chewed up by the enemy units, as many of their regiments have better stats than your human fighters--even regular Orc Boyz are better then human infantry, and Black Orcs and Big 'Uns are both much stronger and very common before long. Cavalry is alot easier since they're strong and can ride down routers.

Flock of Doom is so ridiculous Allor ended up hogging Exp even after maxing out (which you can do VERY early on if you let him handle Orc Pursuit alone by using the Charge button to outmaneuver the enemy regiments and pick them off with Hunting Spears). I always find myself getting swamped if he doesn't destroy a few units with Flock of Doom, though. For some reason the skaven almost never seem to rout from missile fire anymore.
One way to help the infantry units is to use them for clean up duty for routing troops, easy battles and also for charging the rear. You can also help them greatly by backing them up by charging flanks and the rear with cavalry. If you nurse them along it's doable and certainly fun for an experienced player. I think the first playthrough should just be about surviving the nightmares ahead, of course. :)

The more I think aout it and talk about it the more I realise that this game is really well designed for the time. It has a high degree of difficulty but just enough to make it fun and a challange and also multiple paths and choices to play the maps and way through the storyline.
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Daren: +1 wound is amazing, though I find it hard to get infantry experience since they always get chewed up by the enemy units, as many of their regiments have better stats than your human fighters--even regular Orc Boyz are better then human infantry, and Black Orcs and Big 'Uns are both much stronger and very common before long. Cavalry is alot easier since they're strong and can ride down routers.

Flock of Doom is so ridiculous Allor ended up hogging Exp even after maxing out (which you can do VERY early on if you let him handle Orc Pursuit alone by using the Charge button to outmaneuver the enemy regiments and pick them off with Hunting Spears). I always find myself getting swamped if he doesn't destroy a few units with Flock of Doom, though. For some reason the skaven almost never seem to rout from missile fire anymore.
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Fezred: One way to help the infantry units is to use them for clean up duty for routing troops, easy battles and also for charging the rear. You can also help them greatly by backing them up by charging flanks and the rear with cavalry. If you nurse them along it's doable and certainly fun for an experienced player. I think the first playthrough should just be about surviving the nightmares ahead, of course. :)

The more I think aout it and talk about it the more I realise that this game is really well designed for the time. It has a high degree of difficulty but just enough to make it fun and a challange and also multiple paths and choices to play the maps and way through the storyline.
The main issue is the interface. I don't know if that was the case in the original game, but the interface is really really bad.Otherwise it is a pretty good game and really encourages you to replay and choose different paths.