Hi all!

I'm considering taking today's chance to grab all the Might and Magic games, but before I do I have a couple of questions about the series as a whole, its storyline and how strongly other games (especially the Heroes of Might and Magic series) tie into it.

How story-heavy is it? Are the games really about the story or is it just a device to tie the gameplay together? Is there deep, interesting and unique lore to be discovered that is expanded upon with every installment? Would you recommend the series to someone who has seen his fair share of Fantasy universes or is it "just another universe" that could be skipped without missing much?

How closely are the games connected, story-wise? Are earlier events referenced regularly? Is one huge universe and history created, or does each game exist on its own, loosely set in the same universe as the others? In other words: Is Might and Magic one coherent experience or just a series of games? Are there many hidden references that aren't that important, but will make you smile if you played earlier games?

How does the HoMM series tie in? Is it important to the series? Does it really add to the same stories and lore or is it basically just a spin-off?

I understand that Ubisoft, after acquiring the licence, rebooted the Might and Magic universe with the release of HoMM5 and started their own continuity. Is it completely separate from the original universe or is it just set in a different place and time, but still the same universe - maybe even referencing the old one? Do I gain anything from having played the older games, when getting into the Ubi continuity?

Are there any other noteworthy works that add to the Might and Magic universe, other than the MM and HoMM series (+Dark Messiah and Clash of Heroes for Ubi continuity)? Are these worth getting into or even absolute musts?

Last but not least, I'd ask you to please give me an order in which to play the games preferably, including HoMM and noteworthy other works. Not by ease-of-access or ingame chronology, but aimed at delivering the best lore experience (probably in order of release, but maybe not).

Thanks a lot in advance! :)

First of all you don't play the games of in the Might&Magic universe(s) for their story.

The setting of the games started out rather "campy" with influences from just about every source known to nerds, with a curious mix of fantasy and sci-fi, mostly the former. But the settings got more generic with time.

Up until HoMM IV there was an overarching storyline deling with The Ancients and the worlds they "seeded", but it's all rather loosely connected. Also bear in mind that there have been verious designers involved, especially with the newest titles which original creator Jon Van Caneghem did not work on. So don't expect too much continuity.

Some characters will travel from one world to another, like the default player characters in MM3 ending up as powerful NPCs in MM7.

But mostly character names and portraits are just recycled. For example in World of Xeen you can see lots of traces of what would eventually become HoMM 1, with lots of the heroes in HoMM1 being NPCs in WoX, but they are not the same characters.

If you want a more detailed answer, check out this thread from the Might&Magic forum at Celestial Heavens: http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11731
Warning: contains spoilers.

HoMM and MM stories are linked, and I personally found it frustrating that when I played the HoMM expansion Armageddon Blade, I didn't understand a lot of references to MM6.

Basically:

MM1 - MM5 are one story arc.

MM6 - MM9 and HoMM 1 - HoMM 4 are another story arc, but set in the same world as the first.
(note that although HoMM1 belongs to this arc, it doesn't really bring much storyline-wise)

HoMM 5 - onwards. I don't know; haven't played. But if I'm not mistaken it's a completely new world altogether.


And yes: there are "many hidden references that aren't that important, but will make you smile if you played earlier games". Which is why I stopped playing HoMM and started playing all MM and HoMM in order.

Chronology of the series is something like:
Might and Magic 1-5
Heroes of Might and Magic 1-2
Heroes 3 expansion "Shadow of Death"
Might and Magic 6
Heroes 3 campaign "Restoration of Erathia"
Might and Magic 7
Heroes 3 expansion "Armageddon's Blade"
Might and Magic 8
Heroes of Might and Magic 4
Might and Magic 9

While playing the games in that order would be optimal for lore purposes, I would not recommend it. Might and Magic 1 has aged poorly; MM2 and Heroes 1 hold up better, but I still wouldn't suggest them as a starting point. And none of the three really have enough plot for me to worry about playing them in their proper point in the sequence. Meanwhile, Shadow of Death is a prequel story that was written after Armageddon's Blade and it is quite difficult. I do not feel it is an appropriate way to get used to Heroes 3, and would suggest you delay it until after Armageddon's Blade or MM8.

Heroes Chronicles includes a bundle of H3 campaigns that take place at varying points during the timeline of Enroth (including its distant past.) I have yet to play them myself, but from my understanding of the plotlines, the most important ones take place between MM8 and Heroes 4. So if you purchased those games as well, that is when I would suggest you play them.

In summary, that'd leave you with: MM3, MM4-5 (as "World of Xeen"), H2, MM6, H3 RoE, MM7, H3 AB, MM8, Heroes Chronicles, H4, MM9. With H3 SoD being thrown in at some point after AB, and MM1-2 and H1... well, whenever you have the patience, really.

That takes care of NWC. Regarding the Ubisoft games, the Heroes 5 storylines happen in release order (base game, Hammers of Fate, Tribes of the East). Dark Messiah is a sequel to those campaigns, Heroes 6 is a prequel taking place some centuries earlier, and I do not recall exactly when Might and Magic 10 is supposed to take place. In any case, while the Ubisoft games do include several references to the NWC games, they are set in their own universe and have no plot continuity. The chronologies of the two universes are entirely separate.

MM3-5 is a good starting point, being the easiest and most user friendly of the M&M games. They also contain the main story (and conclusion) to the original story line as envisioned by Van Canaghem.

After that I'd play most of the Heroes Chronicles.
Except for Clash of Dragons and Sword of Frost, they all take place before MM6 and HoMM1. Also, they are quite easy games with a simple and user friendly interface. They are the easiest of all the HoMM games, so an excellent intro to HoMM.

So I'd start with this order:
Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra
Might and Magic IV-V: World of Xeen (finish Cloudside before Darkside)
Heroes Chronicles: Warlord of the Wasteland
Heroes Chronicles: Conquest of the Underworld
Heroes Chronicles: Revolt of the Beastmasters
Heroes Chronicles: Master of the Elements
Heroes Chronicles: The World Tree
Heroes Chronicles: The Fiery Moon

After that you should be ready for the harder and IMO better games. I'd skip HoMM 1, though, since it doesn't contain much "lore" and is superceded in every way by HoMM 2.

Just a note, even though Heroes 3 expansion "Shadow of Death" story takes place before the original "Restoration of Erathia", it's really better to play it after Armageddon's blade, the way it was released. It's sort of a flashback to events that happened before, and contains references to games that were released earlier but take place later.

When watching a movie you don't watch flashback scenes before the movie starts because that would be the chronological order.

Play by order of release. Like Malcolm said, you can skip some which don't bring much to stroyline if you don't find them enjoyable (try them out first though)

Thanks for all your input so far! The question of order is answered, thoroughly. ;)
Luckily I have another day to decide, because I'm still a bit on the fence. I've heard quite a few facts, but little opinion. :)
I'll condense it into one (two, really, but they're closely related :P ) big question: Is the universe fleshed out so that I can enjoy diving into it, learn about its people, cultures, history and whatnot? If I'd play mainly for the lore, experiencing an interesting universe and getting to know that world, should I get this or do MM's strengths lie elsewhere (where?)? If not for the story, what do you play it for?

I don't mind generic, per se. It doesn't have to be innovative and re-invent Fantasy, as long as it's well-executed, coherent and fleshed out. Is it?

Exploration, character development, combat, puzzles.
If I want story I read a book.
But if you want story in the (Ho)MM games, the Heroes Chronicles is your best bet.
Also, I get the impression that what you are really looking for is a good setting, more than a deep story. It's more coherent than the old settings, but more bland and boring. At least that's my impression from playing 1/3 of HoMM V.

Story lines give you a goal --- the quest. Some are stronger storylines like Baldur's Gate or Ultima; some weaker. I've found both fun but like a stronger storyline. But I also like facing the tactical challenges, exploring the world created by imaginative people; and getting my Avatar(s) strong enough to face the final challenge. But if the storyline is the most important for you, then you need to start out in an M&M Universe to see if it is a strong enough story arc for your taste.

For me the answer is: Yes. And I do enjoy games with good storylines.
Although like MacAilpin said, the storyline/lore here is not as strong as in Baldur's Gate or Ultima, I did find it very enjoyable overall.

Note that the storyline in MM1-MM5 (and HoMM1) is weaker, you might still want to play these games, since you will get some references to them in the later games.

I'll condense it into one (two, really, but they're closely related :P ) big question: Is the universe fleshed out so that I can enjoy diving into it, learn about its people, cultures, history and whatnot? If I'd play mainly for the lore, experiencing an interesting universe and getting to know that world, should I get this or do MM's strengths lie elsewhere (where?)?

Might and Magic 6-8 do a good job of fleshing out their world. Some of this is due to the chat topics randomly available to NPCs, but I think a majority of it comes from reading item descriptions. Every category of item has a unique description (and when I say category of item, I don't mean "mace", but rather "mace+2 named Spiked Mace".) Here are a few sample descriptions from MM7:

Crude Longsword (3d3): "Though notched and dented, this longsword is still an effective weapon."
Goblin Cutlass (2d4+5): "A strange mix of brass and some other, reddish metal provide this weapon with its strange color and unusual strength. Goblin craftsman are typically unconcerned with appearance, but when it comes to killing, they can be counted on to get it right."
Graceful Sword (3d3+9): "An high quality longsword, monogrammed initials near the base of the pommel indicate it was forged by master weaponsmith Mekorig the Blind circa 780-800."
Wallace (unique artifact, 3d4+12): "Wallace has somehow found its way into the hands of rebels and rabble rousers for centuries. The weapon magnifies both the ability and the confidence of its wielder, frequently leading its owners to take risks they might otherwise have avoided. Though none of its owner's ambitions have been fulfilled, no one has ever declined to carry Wallace once they have heard its siren song."

These are pretty cool, and well worth your time to read. High-level descriptions are generally the most interesting ones, as you'd expect, but many of the less potent items still do some world building, such as the above Goblin Cutlass and its brief analysis of the goblin psyche.

However, MM6-8 are certainly the high point in the series for lore. MM1-5 have an overall story arc, but there's not much story to it, and the histories of the worlds themselves are almost entirely contained within their instruction manuals. The games provide you with a world full of neat stuff, and those worlds are fun to explore. But if you want an explanation of why the neat stuff is there, you will frequently be disappointed. (Not always! But frequently.)

MM9 is generally lower quality than 6-8, and I don't recall offhand whether it has item descriptions of similar caliber. It certainly has some world-building, and the world it builds is largely Nordic and does feel somewhat different from the standard Fantasy Europe, but I would struggle to recommend it on that basis. Meanwhile, each successive Heroes game has more plot than the one before it, but their strength is in gameplay and they know it.

I personally find the "lack of story" in M&M games refreshing. There is a story, it's just not complicated. There's not 27 factions and all their interpersonal relationships with each other. Nor are there 100 convoluted characters, with the names and grooming habits of their dogs.

I get mentally tired in cerebral RPGS, trying to keep up with all the details, (which I end up not caring about, anyway). Sometimes less is more. I like being able to grab a weapon and just going for it. I hate when a game forces you to stop what you're doing, just so you can read 12 pages of long-winded exposition.

Once more, thank you for your thoughts and helping me with making up my mind.

I decided to go for it. While it was not overly enthusiastic (thankfully; I expected the praise of some die-hard fans, justified or not :) ), some of your input gave me the feeling that I might find some of what I'm looking for in the MM games - and at less than $7 for the whole series, it's hardly worth missing the chance without at least having a glance for myself.

I'll follow your advice and try them in order of release, but will skip one or two games if I find it too hard to get into.

Thank you, I too have been wondering about the order to play them in, if one were to play them in order of release. What I don't see included here is Swords of Zeen. If I'm not mistaken, MM 4&5 are World of Zeen, but are made up of Clouds and Darkside, correct??? So that still leaves Swords of Zeen. Was that released about the same time as World of Zeen maybe???

Heh, I guess I did forget to make a note of Swords. You are correct that World of Xeen refers only to 4&5; while you can use one party for both of these games and travel freely between them, there's nothing of the sort between either or both of them and Swords of Xeen. However, in terms of game mechanics, Swords of Xeen is identical to Darkside. Indeed, I believe it's technically a Darkside mod.

At any rate, Swords of Xeen was released (as a bonus in an anthology CD) after MM5 and before MM6, and plotwise it is a direct sequel to World of Xeen, so it would be played right after you finish 4&5.