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Isn't there only one tome of wisdom in the whole game?
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greenfreak: Isn't there only one tome of wisdom in the whole game?
I'm told that there are 3, but for 2 of them you have to choose between the tome or something else. Something to do with the challenge treasures I think.
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PaxEmpyrean: Never roll with 7 Will. When you only gain one to three energy per level anyway, having a -2 adjustment on that means you're going to run out of energy for special attacks constantly. You're screwing your damage output. I'd be reluctant to go with eight will, either. Twelve Dex isn't going to do you any good; you won't dodge anything with that little evasion, the resistances are still crap, and the accuracy boost is irrelevant compared to the three skill points you lose for choosing minotaur over human.

One minotaur is a great idea because Headhunter is an awesome perk and a throwing or missile Rogue on the back row with Dex as a dump stat is a good addition to the party, plus they only need to put points into one skill so you're not missing out much. A second minotaur is not really all that great, due to the lack of skill points (seriously, Skilled is the best perk after Headhunter, and minotaurs have the reverse of it just for being minotaurs, so if you don't have Headhunter your minotaur is just bad, and you should only have one Headhunter). You're planning on skimping on Will for a melee fighter and taking advantage of the extra stats elsewhere, but running out of energy in combat drops your damage output considerably. You don't need more than ten, but you absolutely should not drop it lower than eight.

The lizardman Rogue should drop a point from Dex and put it into Will. Daggers burn energy faster than any other weapon due to their attack speed. One point of Dex doesn't matter much, and your Will is one point short of avoiding the energy penalty.

The Insectoid Mage looks pretty good as is. The 50 skill Fire Immunity is basically a waste; their fire resistance is going to be 65 just from previous skill-ups anyway, and if you're still worried about fire damage you can cast Fire Shield to add another +35 for the whole party, which takes your Mage to 100. I'd drop Fire Magic down to 44 and put the other six points into Spellcraft to get the second tier of faster casting.
Up to the point I decided to restart (1/2 way through dungeon level 5), I only ever ran out of energy once & that was on the mage.

The point of maxing Fire was for the additional damage that the extra points give.
Post edited April 18, 2012 by Rodzaju
As you increase your weapon skill, you open up more special attacks and trigger the ones you've got more often, which means that your energy use increases exponentially while your energy reserves increase at a linear rate. Early and midgame energy won't be a problem, but you'll burn out in lategame fights when you really don't want to.
The point of maxing Fire was for the additional damage that the extra points give.
Improving from 25% faster cast rate to 50% faster cast rate will probably do more for your damage output than increasing from 44 to 50 skill to Fire Magic. It's not a huge deal either way.
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PaxEmpyrean: As you increase your weapon skill, you open up more special attacks and trigger the ones you've got more often, which means that your energy use increases exponentially while your energy reserves increase at a linear rate. Early and midgame energy won't be a problem, but you'll burn out in lategame fights when you really don't want to.

Improving from 25% faster cast rate to 50% faster cast rate will probably do more for your damage output than increasing from 44 to 50 skill to Fire Magic. It's not a huge deal either way.
Doing more damage per casted spell reflects back onto the energy-efficiency, that you mentioned just a tad bit up in your post and that is important to consider for mages as well, at least to some degree. Though then again, spellcraft will possibly fix that all by itself anyways.

I'm kinda curious by how much the actual damage scales up per skillpoint. Did anyone do any research into this?

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Rodzaju: Up to the point I decided to restart (1/2 way through dungeon level 5), I only ever ran out of energy once & that was on the mage.
Funny. I am considering restarting since two days now (sadly didn't have actual time to play) just as I just finished the 5th level of the dungeon, just to get Headhunter (which I skipped on my minotaur fighter, expecting that I maybe could add it as a new perk later), reskilling my earth mage to something generally more usefull and fixing some attribute point misdecissions on the rogue.
Post edited April 18, 2012 by MadnerKami
Though then again, spellcraft will possibly fix that all by itself anyways.
Increasing Spellcraft from 12 to 18 increases your Will by a single point. Since you're getting an odd number of Will points by increasing Spellcraft to that point, it doesn't actually do anything for you. As far as I can tell, for purposes of determining energy bonus at level up, having 17 Will is no different from having 16 Will. I guess it matters if you're going to the trouble of swapping Huntsman's Cloaks, but I wouldn't bother.
Though then again, spellcraft will possibly fix that all by itself anyways.
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PaxEmpyrean: Increasing Spellcraft from 12 to 18 increases your Will by a single point. Since you're getting an odd number of Will points by increasing Spellcraft to that point, it doesn't actually do anything for you. As far as I can tell, for purposes of determining energy bonus at level up, having 17 Will is no different from having 16 Will. I guess it matters if you're going to the trouble of swapping Huntsman's Cloaks, but I wouldn't bother.
Technically you gain 2.5 energy rounded down but yes odd numbered willpower/vitality isn't useful as a modifier.
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Etdn: Technically you gain 2.5 energy rounded down
No you don't. Energy totals are affected by starting Will upon character creation, but changes in Will that take place later do not retroactively affect your energy total. Vitality works the same way.

It's a very poor design decision if you ask me. Changes to Vitality or Willpower should affect health and energy totals retroactively.
http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1309

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PaxEmpyrean: Increasing Spellcraft from 12 to 18 increases your Will by a single point. Since you're getting an odd number of Will points by increasing Spellcraft to that point, it doesn't actually do anything for you. As far as I can tell, for purposes of determining energy bonus at level up, having 17 Will is no different from having 16 Will. I guess it matters if you're going to the trouble of swapping Huntsman's Cloaks, but I wouldn't bother.
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Etdn: Technically you gain 2.5 energy rounded down but yes odd numbered willpower/vitality isn't useful as a modifier.
Actually, I believe the odd numbers are indeed useless. On a level gain, I believe it's 1 pt gain for each two attribute levels beyond 10, plus a random 1d3, so a mage with 16 or 17 willpower would get 3 + 1d3 energy. Same reasoning for vitality.
Post edited April 19, 2012 by muun
My biggest problem with that is the amount of gear you just won't be able to use.
It is entirely possible that you won't need or want to use it, but for me, every time I see a great bit of loot that I have to ignore because my party isn't built for it, I cry a little.
It will always happen as you cannot make use of everything, but when I'm ignoring more than half the loot out there, something is wrong....
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Rodzaju: My biggest problem with that is the amount of gear you just won't be able to use.
It is entirely possible that you won't need or want to use it, but for me, every time I see a great bit of loot that I have to ignore because my party isn't built for it, I cry a little.
It will always happen as you cannot make use of everything, but when I'm ignoring more than half the loot out there, something is wrong....
But it is kick ass fun! When I went toe-to-toe with the first Giant Crab and came away totally unharmed, I knew it was a winner. It's not my build, by the way. I just found it on the Grimrock forums and decided to try it.

Anyway, while it may not be the "critique" the OP asked for, the thread does point out some useful concepts -- like the role differences between front row and back row. Front row tanks and back row dps.
Post edited April 19, 2012 by muun
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muun: ... Anyway, while it may not be the "critique" the OP asked for, the thread does point out some useful concepts -- like the role differences between front row and back row. Front row tanks and back row dps.
Anything that can make me look at the party & possibly improve it is welcome.
Just because I don't use the suggestion doesn't make it a bad one.