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General discussionStar Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker(361 posts)(361 posts)
(361 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 24, 2019
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Fairfox: why didnt doronnorod come back here to purpose lee give away nerd spoilers again

was he ill?
He probably thinks it's not worth it, the movie is apparently so bad no one cares anyway.
Posted December 24, 2019
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LootHunter: Obvious for you, but not for CEOs of the companies that hold the rights to the Terminator franchise. That was exactly my point - if producers will see only "that thing was popular" without understanding why it was popular, you will just get bomb after bomb, crappy funfiction and nothing else.

The reason, why Star Wars were successful for such a long time is because Star War fans were in charge of production. Even Prequel Trilogy, that failed in many things, still had reasonable overarching plot - because Lucas genuienly wanted to tell the story of Anakin falling to the Dark Side and rise of the Emperror. Kennedy didn't know the first thing about SW and wasn't interested in anything beside her ambitions and her ideology.
Yes but my point is Terminator never had that kind of cult fanbase, massive cultural importance or longevity. It was one cool low-budget movie and then one big hit in Arnold's heyday and that was it. Even the big hit of T2 had profits dwarfed by massive cultural hits like Star Wars or Jurassic Park. Terminator just never had that kind of massive cultural relevance.

Star Wars is so popular there's no real way to kill it. Even if Disney makes 5 more crappy movies Star Wars will still be popular and part of our culture in a way Terminator never could be. Even this movie is under-performing only in the sense it will be the 30th highest grossing movie of all time instead of the 5th, or whatever. Disney and Star Wars will go on for a long, long time whether fans complain loudly on the internet about a particular movie or not.
Posted December 24, 2019
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StingingVelvet: Disney and Star Wars will go on for a long, long time whether fans complain loudly on the internet about a particular movie or not.
So will Terminator. But I'm sure I don't want both franchises go in the direction they are going now.
Posted December 24, 2019
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LootHunter: So will Terminator. But I'm sure I don't want both franchises go in the direction they are going now.
Dude if anyone makes another Terminator movie at this point, after two massive disappointments and two bombs, when Cameron couldn't even save it... they're just complete idiots. Star Wars on the other hand has tons of income potential, as shown by the movies you think are bad still doing gangbusters business. It's nowhere near the same thing no matter how much you try to say it is.
Posted December 24, 2019
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LootHunter: So will Terminator. But I'm sure I don't want both franchises go in the direction they are going now.
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StingingVelvet: Dude if anyone makes another Terminator movie at this point, after two massive disappointments and two bombs, when Cameron couldn't even save it... they're just complete idiots.
You mean that people who wrote a script where John Connor is casually killed at the beginning of the movie AREN'T complete idiots?

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StingingVelvet: Star Wars on the other hand has tons of income potential, as shown by the movies you think are bad still doing gangbusters business. It's nowhere near the same thing
Yet.
Posted December 24, 2019
Disney just needs to release the un-altered theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy on a Blu-Ray Box Set to make the fans happy again.

The version of Star Wars where Han Solo DID shoot first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6PDcBhODqo
Posted December 24, 2019
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Fairfox: why didnt doronnorod come back here to purpose lee give away nerd spoilers again

was he ill?
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morolf: He probably thinks it's not worth it, the movie is apparently so bad no one cares anyway.
Yeah, I mean it was a helluva spoiler that Luke died because it was sorta unexpected and people care about Luke.

Not much to spoil there in the new one because a) no one really cares about Rey and b) no one really expects Rey to get stabbed in the shower by the end of reel 2, so there really isn't much to spoil there in the first place. Ep 9 plays it so super safe that you'd just have to think of the most inoffensive, creatively bankrupt outcome you could imagine and you'd be pretty much spot on.
Posted December 24, 2019
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Elmofongo: Disney just needs to release the un-altered theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy on a Blu-Ray Box Set to make the fans happy again.

The version of Star Wars where Han Solo DID shoot first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6PDcBhODqo
yes!

as a kid, han was my favorite because while he could be heroic he seemed a bit like someone you didn't want to cross.
Posted December 24, 2019
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LootHunter: Yet.
If they release a few more Solos then we'll talk.

P.S. I like Solo, but that's the only financial failure they've done, so that's what I mean. I'd take Solo and Rogue One over any "episode" since Return of the Jedi.
Posted December 24, 2019
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LootHunter: So will Terminator. But I'm sure I don't want both franchises go in the direction they are going now.
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StingingVelvet: Dude if anyone makes another Terminator movie at this point, after two massive disappointments and two bombs, when Cameron couldn't even save it... they're just complete idiots. Star Wars on the other hand has tons of income potential, as shown by the movies you think are bad still doing gangbusters business. It's nowhere near the same thing no matter how much you try to say it is.
Except for Solo every one of the Disney produced SW movies has been a licence to print money for Disney.
The Terminator has had a record of box office failure, and what is striking is that even the return of James Cameron ot the franchise did not help that much.
I understand the rights to the terminator tranchise will revert to Cameron in a couple of years, and he will own it outright. What he does will be interesting.
I see Star Wars as becoming like that 007 franchise ...still very popular, still very lucrative, but not having the box office domination is once did/
I have alot of problems with the Disney Star Wars movies, but no more ..in fact a little less...then I had with the prequels. The prequels had a great basic storyline in the fall of Anakin Skywalker but ruined it thourgh bad handling...let's face it, Lucas's skills as a writer seem to have totally vanished during his vacation from screen writings. hard to beleive the same guy who wrote such great dialogue for ":American Graffiti": could have written the crap we heard in AOTC.
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Elmofongo: Disney just needs to release the un-altered theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy on a Blu-Ray Box Set to make the fans happy again.

The version of Star Wars where Han Solo DID shoot first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6PDcBhODqo
I would like to see that happen,but don't think it's going to make the fans who have major problems with the Disney films forget everything.
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LootHunter: Yet.
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StingingVelvet: If they release a few more Solos then we'll talk.

P.S. I like Solo, but that's the only financial failure they've done, so that's what I mean. I'd take Solo and Rogue One over any "episode" since Return of the Jedi.
"Solo" was not a bad film, but the whole making of it was such a clustefuck. Why dkf Kennedy wait unitl the film was 90% done before firing Lord and Miller if she did not like what she was seeing in the screnning room?
That is incomprehensible.
I liked the Disney Trilogy better then you did, but, yeah, it was trying way to hard to be the OT allover again.
Post edited December 24, 2019 by dudalb
Posted December 25, 2019
I just saw it. I liked it.

Yay!
Posted December 25, 2019
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dudalb: I have alot of problems with the Disney Star Wars movies, but no more ..in fact a little less...then I had with the prequels. The prequels had a great basic storyline in the fall of Anakin Skywalker but ruined it thourgh bad handling...let's face it, Lucas's skills as a writer seem to have totally vanished during his vacation from screen writings. hard to beleive the same guy who wrote such great dialogue for ":American Graffiti": could have written the crap we heard in AOTC.
George Lucas has never been a great writer. Period. He's a genius idea-man and a proficient director (especially when challenged), but he's never been a great writer... and that's especially true with dialogue. Lucas' dialogue has always been expository and wooden.

If you look up most of his movies, you'll find that he had co-writers like Gloria Katz or people "sweetening" his dialogue like Carrie Fisher (Star Wars).

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dudalb: "Solo" was not a bad film...
Don't tend to agree. IMHO Solo was a horrible movie with a good premise... much like Rogue One. Terrible movies with a good idea behind them.
Post edited December 25, 2019 by kai2
Posted December 25, 2019
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dudalb: I have alot of problems with the Disney Star Wars movies, but no more ..in fact a little less...then I had with the prequels. The prequels had a great basic storyline in the fall of Anakin Skywalker but ruined it thourgh bad handling...
IMO the Disney films suffer from a lack of understanding of the very core of the franchise and a complete lack of vision. For me, they feel like total failures... and I completely expect them to be forgotten in the near future... while the OT and even the prequels will still be talked about.

Now, I do not think the prequels are great... and was very disappointed at the time of release, but they move toward a very "real" and powerful end. There are flashes of brilliance... and even though I can only really sit through Revenge of the Sith... my admiration for what Lucas was trying to accomplish has only grown with time. I only wish Gary Kurtz had still been with Lucas on the prequels. I think Lucas needed that "realistic" and "grounded" counterpoint to refine his work (very few artists make great work when they essentially have no restrictions and are surrounded by "yes" men).

The Disney movies are just flashy, meaningless hack-jobs... without even moments of brilliance... just mediocre flash, characters who are more thematic than real, and a bipolar relationship with the past.

I'm not arguing that you should hate them. People are free to enjoy what they enjoy... but I feel they are deeply, deeply flawed and not lasting. Only time will tell...

Now, will this mean the end of Star Wars?

No. Disney has spent too much on Star Wars to let the franchise go dormant anytime soon (unlike the early 90's where most teenagers had no idea what Star Wars was)... but I do believe... without a clear and concise vision Star Wars will fade away to irrelevance sooner than later. Unlike the example above of 007 movies, Star Wars is not a single character-based story... it's an ensemble... and so it's quite difficult keep adding movies with guaranteed returns.
Post edited December 25, 2019 by kai2
Posted December 25, 2019
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dudalb: "Solo" was not a bad film, but the whole making of it was such a clustefuck. Why dkf Kennedy wait unitl the film was 90% done before firing Lord and Miller if she did not like what she was seeing in the screnning room?
That is incomprehensible.
I liked the Disney Trilogy better then you did, but, yeah, it was trying way to hard to be the OT allover again.
Kennedy is really the entire problem. I really hope office politics doesn't stop them from replacing her, because it's obvious she can't run the ship like they need her to. I'm not a big fan's of Johnson's dialog writing or JJs plotting, but they're good directors and the movies could have been great with a better producer to guide them and a lot more planning.
Posted December 25, 2019
Rise of Skywalker is just a dumbed down version of Return of the Jedi. The original trilogy and the prequels at least tried to tell a cohesive story. This new trilogy is just an absolute waste.

I think Disney had an outline of a plan with this trilogy, but two things completely derailed it: Rian Johnson (who I don't believe ever saw a Star Wars movie) and Carrie Fisher's death. Those were just too much to overcome.

On the other hand, we really shouldn't be surprised by the lack of creativity here. This is the same studio that is making live action remakes of their animated films.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionStar Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker(361 posts)(361 posts)
(361 posts)