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Sovereign Syndicate (2013/2015 Shadowrun but it's Victo.....yes

Not sure aboout the card system, never been a fan of that, but the rest looks good.
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morolf: Sounds like an interesting concept. Maybe you should take a look at Age of decadence. It's different from what you seem to be aiming for (no pre-made characters), but imo one thing it does really well is provide several radically different story lines, with multiple branches within them. They share some plot elements and common locations, but each provides a unique experience. It's also an indie title created on a limited budget, so maybe taking a look at it could be helpful for your project.
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IsaacCHS: Thanks for the recommendation! Haven't played Age of Decadence yet but I did watch Chris Davis review of it and am familiar with it. I think Colony Ship is from the same devs, pretty excited for that one too.
I just checked out your Steam game page and the game definitely looks interesting. But I`ve read there something about "Tarot cards". Does this mean, that this game uses some card game mechanics? I hope not, since I`m not too fond of such mechanics in games.
Oh, and the thing that we have to use pre-made characters is not too bad, I can live with that, as long as there are enuff skills to tailor the characters to my liking. I don`t have problems with that, I also love Lords of Xulima where the main character "Gaulen" is also pre- made.
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IsaacCHS: Skill development is something more like an elder scrolls game where the actions you choose will affect what skills improve rather than a traditional experience and skill points approach. Never really liked that I can spend a whole game shooting everything and then dump all my points in to Charisma if I never actually used charasmatic skills.
I really do like systems where your actions affect which skills and stats improve. (There's a reason I like the SaGa series, which by the way is looking into if you have a serious interest in game desing, as they are among the least conventional games I have played.) With that said, there are a couple issues with the system used in Elder Scrolls specifically:
* The way stat growth in Morrowind and Oblivion is handled is horrible, to the point where, to get optimum stats, you have to do counter-intuitive and tedious tasks, or else you'll permanently miss stat points. (Also, non-retroactive HP increases due to vitality was an archaic game mechanic back then and should not be copied.)
* One one hand, the higher a skill is, the harder it is to increase further; that mechanic is OK. What isn't OK, on the other hand, is that harder tasks (like fighting a high-level monster or using powerful, but expensive, spells) don't reward more XP than easier tasks, making it a real pain to raise high-level skills, and significantly reducing the incentive for tackling harder challenges. (Also, particularly in Morrowind, the lack of XP for failed actions makes it incredibly annoying to level up low-level skills; see games like Dungeon Master (failed actions give less, but non-zero, class XP) and Wizardry 8 (failed actions give more of the equivalent of skill XP than successful actions) for games that do this better.)

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Breja: I get that, though I can have fun with both types of games. Sometimes I enjoy games for their unrealistic "game-y" elements, because they make for fun, creative stuff, even if it's nonsense. Like characters that emerge as you play into weird "jack-of-all-trades" types. Also, often we only pick up on how usefull or fun a skill could be when it's too late to invest in it, if the game doesn't allow to just "dump" points into it. Maybe you could include teachers, that would let us level up skills we weren't using, but find ourselves craving at some point? If it doesn't mess up the whole balance of things of course.
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IsaacCHS: Thanks, the teachers aspect is interesting feedback I'll have to give some thought to. Part of why we wanted multiple pre-made characters in the same world was to allow players to explore different skills too.
Another thing that can help in these situations is if it's easy to level up a new skill later on. Allow a powerful character to level up a previously unused skill as easily as a new character can, and the player can still make use of that skill to some degree after a little practice. (Also, said higher level character could tackle more difficult challenges with the low level skill, which ought to provide more skill XP (or the equivalent concept).)
Post edited July 27, 2021 by dtgreene
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IsaacCHS: Thanks for the recommendation! Haven't played Age of Decadence yet but I did watch Chris Davis review of it and am familiar with it. I think Colony Ship is from the same devs, pretty excited for that one too.
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Maxvorstadt: I just checked out your Steam game page and the game definitely looks interesting. But I`ve read there something about "Tarot cards". Does this mean, that this game uses some card game mechanics? I hope not, since I`m not too fond of such mechanics in games.
Oh, and the thing that we have to use pre-made characters is not too bad, I can live with that, as long as there are enuff skills to tailor the characters to my liking. I don`t have problems with that, I also love Lords of Xulima where the main character "Gaulen" is also pre- made.
Yeah, now that we've fleshed it out we're definitely liking the tarot cards. Not really a deck-builder if that's what you're thinking; but using the cards instead of dice. It gives it an interesting dynamic difficulty based on cards left in your deck, and we have some special effects for the major arcana that add some really interesting effects.
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IsaacCHS: Skill development is something more like an elder scrolls game where the actions you choose will affect what skills improve rather than a traditional experience and skill points approach. Never really liked that I can spend a whole game shooting everything and then dump all my points in to Charisma if I never actually used charasmatic skills.
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dtgreene: I really do like systems where your actions affect which skills and stats improve. (There's a reason I like the SaGa series, which by the way is looking into if you have a serious interest in game desing, as they are among the least conventional games I have played.) With that said, there are a couple issues with the system used in Elder Scrolls specifically:
* The way stat growth in Morrowind and Oblivion is handled is horrible, to the point where, to get optimum stats, you have to do counter-intuitive and tedious tasks, or else you'll permanently miss stat points. (Also, non-retroactive HP increases due to vitality was an archaic game mechanic back then and should not be copied.)
* One one hand, the higher a skill is, the harder it is to increase further; that mechanic is OK. What isn't OK, on the other hand, is that harder tasks (like fighting a high-level monster or using powerful, but expensive, spells) don't reward more XP than easier tasks, making it a real pain to raise high-level skills, and significantly reducing the incentive for tackling harder challenges. (Also, particularly in Morrowind, the lack of XP for failed actions makes it incredibly annoying to level up low-level skills; see games like Dungeon Master (failed actions give less, but non-zero, class XP) and Wizardry 8 (failed actions give more of the equivalent of skill XP than successful actions) for games that do this better.)

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IsaacCHS: Thanks, the teachers aspect is interesting feedback I'll have to give some thought to. Part of why we wanted multiple pre-made characters in the same world was to allow players to explore different skills too.
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dtgreene: Another thing that can help in these situations is if it's easy to level up a new skill later on. Allow a powerful character to level up a previously unused skill as easily as a new character can, and the player can still make use of that skill to some degree after a little practice. (Also, said higher level character could tackle more difficult challenges with the low level skill, which ought to provide more skill XP (or the equivalent concept).)
Thanks for your feedback! Yeah we definitely don't want it to be counterintuitive where you spend the whole game jumping and squatting to improve your athleticism for example. More like how you normally choose to behave and solve problems, your character develops in that direction and improves their skills. So if you lockpick a lot you get better at it, if you don't then you don't.
Post edited March 05, 2022 by IsaacCHS
Sovereign Syndicate Updated Trailer