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So, I started up Stardew Valley again. And there's a little quibble.

In the postgame Ginger Island in order to unlock several things, you have to collect many of what we'll call an exclusive currency in the form of Golden Walnuts.

To access two of these, you have to use two of the worse mechanical objects in the game: The slingshot & the copper pan. The former is a questionable ranged option that you have to manually aim and is statically worse than most weapons.

The copper pan is utterly worthless as it basically requires you to carry it around all the time, and hope that a glimmering spot appears in the water. And maybe you'll get copper ore or something when you've already got all the copper you could ever want. (Stardew doesn't ship with a separate toolbelt by default.)

So in order to go for 100%, you have to oblige the game. Any examples you care to provide of having to engage with a scrappy mechanic or rarely desired item in order to progress?
low rated
How to stop seeing posts like these?
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Darvond: Any examples you care to provide of having to engage with a scrappy mechanic or rarely desired item in order to progress?
I'm a little bit confused here. If I understood you correctly, the copper pan doesn't oblige you to anything since not using it doesn't impair your progression. Isn't the same with the slingshot? Can't you get those walnuts via other methods? It seems that the use of both items can easily be avoided.

Did I miss something?
To be fair most stuff like this is mindless collection for no reason other than to see numbers go up and satiate an autistic desire. It's not the game's fault for doing that really, they know a lot of people want that busywork and they cater to that audience.

If I am thinking of actual content... story content, stuff done to complete normal gameplay... then the best example off the top of my head is the underwater triforce hunt toward the end of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Just random busywork to pad out the game since they removed some dungeons.
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Darvond: So in order to go for 100%, you have to oblige the game. Any examples you care to provide of having to engage with a scrappy mechanic or rarely desired item in order to progress?
Insta-fail stealth sequences in non-stealth games, with Zelda games being among the worst offenders.
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StingingVelvet: If I am thinking of actual content... story content, stuff done to complete normal gameplay... then the best example off the top of my head is the underwater triforce hunt toward the end of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Just random busywork to pad out the game since they removed some dungeons.
I didn't get even close to that point in Wind Waker. Thing is, there's a mandatory insta-fail stealth sequence right away, before you even get into the game, and that was enough to make me not want to play the game.

(Ocarina of Time at least lets you play one dungeon before its first insta-fail stealth section (yes, there's more than one). Majora's Mask is tolerable because the first one is unusually easy (especially if you go in at night) and short, and the second one can be trivialized with a certain item.)
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StingingVelvet: To be fair most stuff like this is mindless collection for no reason other than to see numbers go up and satiate an autistic desire. It's not the game's fault for doing that really, they know a lot of people want that busywork and they cater to that audience.
You shouldn't use the term "autistic" in contexts like this, as I'm pretty sure it's offensive.

Anyway, I actually like it when I can just wander around in circles, mindlessly win battles, and watch numbers go up. Sometimes, it's a nice way to releax. (I'm thinking Dragon Quest 1 here.)

Of course, sometimes it's nice to have a game where you still need to fight to get numbers to go up, but those fights can actually be tricky, to the point where victory is not assured. (I'm thinking Dragon Quest 2 here.)

Incidentally, this is the sort of reason why I sometimes like playing idle clickers; just watch the numbers increase, and try to figure out how to get the numbers to increase faster. (In some games, there can be quite a bit of strategy behind this.)
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Darvond: So in order to go for 100%, you have to oblige the game. Any examples you care to provide of having to engage with a scrappy mechanic or rarely desired item in order to progress?
Dragon Quest 3, GBC version. In this particular version, each enemy has a small chance of dropping a monster medal when defeated. There are 3 types of monster medal, and to get silver and later gold, you need to already have the bronze medal for its type. Furthermore, unlike with item drops, there isn't a way to increase the drop rate.

In order to get past the first floor of the second bonus dungeon (a bonus dungeon exclusive to this version), you must get all the bronze medals. In order to reach the bottom floors (including the boss at the end), you must also get all the silver medals.

(Apparently, there's some extra dialog if you reach the boss at the end with all the gold medals, but very few people have actually done that.)
Post edited February 13, 2022 by dtgreene
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Cambrey: I'm a little bit confused here. If I understood you correctly, the copper pan doesn't oblige you to anything since not using it doesn't impair your progression. Isn't the same with the slingshot? Can't you get those walnuts via other methods? It seems that the use of both items can easily be avoided.

Did I miss something?
No, you quite literally cannot. Even the ingame hint for one of them goes, "Oh, if only I had something to shoot them down with."
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Darvond: So in order to go for 100%, you have to oblige the game. Any examples you care to provide of having to engage with a scrappy mechanic or rarely desired item in order to progress?
Do you mean in order to progress (i.e. complete the game) or "in order to achieve 100% completion"?

If it's the latter, there are more examples than I can count!
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StingingVelvet: To be fair most stuff like this is mindless collection for no reason other than to see numbers go up and satiate an autistic desire. It's not the game's fault for doing that really, they know a lot of people want that busywork and they cater to that audience.

If I am thinking of actual content... story content, stuff done to complete normal gameplay... then the best example off the top of my head is the underwater triforce hunt toward the end of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Just random busywork to pad out the game since they removed some dungeons.
Yeah, the Triforce hunt sucked a fair bit. I think removing Tingle from the equation would mitigate the bigger problem with it.
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Swissy88: How to stop seeing posts like these?
Follow the lead of the Dr. from Event Horizon.
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pds41: Do you mean in order to progress (i.e. complete the game) or "in order to achieve 100% completion"?

If it's the latter, there are more examples than I can count!
Either is valid, really. I'm not being pedantic in this thread.
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Cambrey: I'm a little bit confused here. If I understood you correctly, the copper pan doesn't oblige you to anything since not using it doesn't impair your progression. Isn't the same with the slingshot? Can't you get those walnuts via other methods? It seems that the use of both items can easily be avoided.

Did I miss something?
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Darvond: No, you quite literally cannot. Even the ingame hint for one of them goes, "Oh, if only I had something to shoot them down with."
I can't remember a single one you need the pan for.

But I also never had serious problems with the inventory. Just get all the backpack upgrades, store stuff and currenlty not needed tools in the hut and scrap the things you don't need...
Post edited February 13, 2022 by Jarik12.3
Final Fantasy 4 has that one dungeon where any character wearing magnetic items is permanently paralyzed during combat. (The 3D version added a "magnetized" status ailment just for this purpose.)

In 2D versions, this meant that Cecil, the main character, couldn't use his sword, so you'd either give him a bow if you want him to attack, or a staff of healing so he could heal.

In 3D versions, Cecil can't equip bows or staves, so he was useless except for his limited magic ability.

(I consider this the least fun part of the game, except on a New Game + of the 3D version, where the Bless augment and a Soma Drop allow you to have fun with a spell that one of your characters knows at this point, but ordinarily doesn't have the MP to use it.)

The 3D version of Final Fantasy 4 also has a sidequest that, at some point, requires a rare drop to progress. (FF4 is notorious for its rare drops, the Pink Tail being the most famous.)

There's also the occasional game with XP-based leveling that *requires* that you reach certain levels in order to get through the game. For example, Crystalis (NES version) can't be beaten at anything below max level; if you try, you'll run into a boss that you can't damage.

Or, there's Dragon Warrior on the NES, where you can't beat the game below a certain level. I think it works something like this:
* Level 1-6: Impossible, even if you're a TAS. (Unless there's a major glitch or something I don't know about.)
* Level 7-16: Not going to happen without manipulating the RNG. The amount of luck needed to beat the final boss is ridiculous; you need to hit it with SLEEP (1/16 chance), then keep casting HURT, with the spell hitting every time (1/16 chance per cast), and the boss can't wake up (1/3 chance each turn of it waking up), or else you won't be able to win. (If it wakes up, it attacks immediately and kills you (if you're level 16, you might be able to survive, but you can't outheal the boss without HEALMORE, which you get at level 17). If HURT misses even once, at level 7 you'll likely run out of MP. (Before you ask, critical hits can't happen during this battle.))
* Level 17: Possible, but apparently you need to cast SLEEP and have it work (1/16 chance).
* Level 18: Possible with a bit of luck, with no need to use things like SLEEP that will most likely not work.
* Level 20: Can reliably win at this level.
Worth noting that you're not going to get the XP needed just from playing the game.

Oh, and Ys 1 basically requires reaching max level around the midpoint of the game, as that one bat boss is a pain even at max level. (I consider that boss to be one of the worst designed bosses in any game; it's been known to drive players batty.)
I went and reminded myself of two more obligations.
1) Fishing in Stardew Valley. You need to do this, even for certain less than optional events. Fishing sucks in Stardew and involves a fiddly & tedious minigame.
2) Junmino Kart. It has exclusive tracks, so if you want a 100% jukebox, you either gotta use a wand of wishing and pray to your local deity that you get a layout that doesn't require you to be TASBOT, or cheat the hell out of it with a mod.