Just so my vote isn't left on nobody.

Vote scene

Going to sleep.

I don't really understand what you think is super town about this? Like, it's a bizarre post to make regardless of his alignment and the only angle I really see for townreading it that it's too bizarre to be something that micro genuinely thinks will convince people he's town as a wolf, but that's super stretchy and I think ultimately the reasoning comes down to "well he's telling the truth, you should trust him and take his statement at face value" which, yeah.

Straw man. Both being scum together is NOT the only option. But Cristine chose to address the quoted paragrapth in precisely that way and only in that way, in order to make an easier counter, without really saying anything.



For those who stil do not see it, there are just four possibilities.

One, the one Cristine and the two suspects are so fond of: everyone is town. Plus Cristine, why not.

Two, your scum partner says he is vigging you. He might even make weird moves with his fingers and make a dramatic face. You try to stop laughting and write "Shame on you, you just killed me, a honest-to-earth vanilla townie. Heavens, avenge me". Or something to the same effect. After that, you say that you are totally convinced each other is townie as a brownie.

Three. Some random guy tells you, townie, that he is vigging you. Then he says it was all a joke and that you must be townie after all. He must know, since he is scum.

Four: Some random guy tells you that he is vigging you. You say you are vanilla townie, heavens avenge me, etc. Then he says he was just joking and that you are townie downie. You praise the pal for his good taste and discerning eye, and swear he is the most townie chum ever. You must know, since you are scum.


This game-day, I would comfortably vote for Lazy or Scene: most likely there are chances to hit scum within this duo than outside it. The whole business smells fishy. It is possible that a townie is getting a bear hug from the mob, but if that is the case, said townie is giving a Town card over to the other for not good reason (his fault). About Pookie, the chances of the Cookie being scum AND both of the other guys being Town seem small. Yet others appear positively townie, or are granted inmunity for the first game-day.


In the end, this little affair has become entertaining, as it has provided something to ponder beyond the vague impressions from the beginning of the game. Also, as people are spreading their wings, it is becoming easier to tell if they are swans or bats. Hopefully Micro does not get to lunch today. If he does and flips Town, as he is likely to do (unless someone has a secret, convincing reason that did not share with us), something should be done about it. Will stay tuned for what seems to be a heartbreaking end-of-game-day at Gog's Restaurant.

You hit the nail on the head in this instance/post. I'd like to think that I'd have had more sense than the now-infamous "i'm town, everyone" post.

Lol, no. it was a take off of Pooka's "i'm town-scum" joke. There's nothing really to defend about town vanilla--no point to breadcrumbing it, etc. i even suspected that it would stir things up; both of these posts were made with the intention to a) stir things up & b) be amusing.

I really REALLY like Carradice's analysis. If he's scum, he's doing a grade-A job of it. Hat tip here.
I'd almost vote Scene or Lasar today. If he meant it as a gambit, as Cristigale explained is done elsewhere, no harm no foul--except--for the posts ZFR quoted from last game. I'd like to think Laser became more accustomed to us (and our more laid-back style of play) in his experiences from the last mafia game to this.

if scum move, it was brilliant; especially if it was backed up by Cristigale, the 3rd scum. It also successfully pocketed maybe scum.

Unsure, but convinced that ZFR isn't as bad as I suspected him at first; he seems convincingly not-anti-town. (not yet convincingly town, either, but at least not anti-town.)

Still don't like lift...

Yeah, a bunch of places. My homesite was Westeros but it died and now I'm kind of searching for a community that I click with to start playing games again. And I just remembered we have this 10 minute rule so I can't do my catchup in the usual way.

Right, thanks for reminding me. The first thing there is that I don't really care for meta, I realize and accept that other people use it but it doesn't do anything for me in any way, but that aside I don't really agree with you that Lift has been trigger happy this game, so talk to me about what you're seeing there in a little more detail please? I don't know if you have a way of doing that without just going deeper into meta, if you don't then don't worry about it. I'll listen either way but yeah it's not going to mean anything to me if its a meta read.

I have chronic headaches which sometimes turn into migraines, so not likely, but at least for now I'm clear thanks. By Lonzi's first do you mean you think it's my first forum mafia game, or do you just mean my first game on this site? Because I've played nearly 30 games across a span of about 3 years of playing forum mafia.

I get that it's a thing you do here, but policy lynching isn't really my thing. Don't really have anything super clearing for him either so I can't exactly object to the wagon except that I think it's bad process. Think scene/micro/lift are almost always better day 1 lynches and think if anything scene is the slot that needs to be resolved more than lazar after the shenanigans. Would still probably prefer micro over anyone else just because of how they've responded to their wagon. I think I'm going to make a read list so I can hopefully have a clearer idea of what my reads are.

Shapie Lonzi (Lonzi)

Cadaver Slim (Cadaver747)
Jocelyn Carradice, the Dancer (Carradice)

Diceman Zeffer (ZFR)
Cristine the Gale (Cristigale)
Miss Pookie Mustard (PookaMustard)

Lazy Walkins (LASER97)

Games O'Rager (GameRager)
Shirley Primalley (SirPrimalform)
Scenes Supplamicz (supplementscene)
Mike the Fish (Microfish_1)

Large the Lift (Lifthrasil)

So I realized that I can't remember anything Rager has done this game, same goes for Primal aside from his interactions with Cadaver. That tier is kind of blob of null that I don't really know what to do with. Lift is slightly below null except I think I was probably reading into his absence a little too much / it was IRL things so probably not super comfortable voting there today anymore. I think I've warmed up to Carratine being a villager, I don't find myself agreeing with everything they say but I can almost always see where they're coming from which is probably the more important thing.

I think ZFR moving his vote to scene / off laser is a good look, makes me paranoid of a laser/ZFR team where ZFR never really intended to keep his vote there but that's a more marginal world I think, the way it happened in his interaction with cristi felt pretty organic, can understand that level of frustration with the fake claim stuff, would probably feel the same way myself if this were like, a year or so ago when I was still emotionally invested in mafia games.

Think I still include Laser in my poe but anything above that I'm probably never voting today, no huge preference on a lynch inside the bottom 5, will vote laser to secure a lynch if needed.

I'll say this. My track record as scum is virtually flawless, because I've established a reputation for being highly unpredictable as town on other forums. You can't form an argument based on my meta, because it's always changing between games.

As town, I wont always reveal my true intentions for the reasons stated above. With that said, I've only ever lost one game as town and I had the scum team completely pinned. There's a method to my madness.

Vote: Microfish_1

Should be L-2.

I've admitted it already, I made a mistake: no one cares about reputation like I thought they do, BUT I wasn't implying that I believe Micro is Town MAINLY because it's a bizarre thing to do, mind you.

There is nothing that can justify it, even that it's my 3rd game on GOG in total or 2nd GOG Mafia game to be precise. And, like I said, if Micro flip Mafia upon his death it would make myself the next target. And even if he flip Town that will not clear myself completely.

So yeah, in your place I would not believe Cadaver. But please don't change my words or at least quote me next time (e.g. I didn't thought of him being *super town*, I had my doubts that a person would go for a big lie to look like Town).
And my main appeal was about analyzing and finding the real target because voting Micro is a lazy vote.
Feel free to find any discrepancies if you like:
Micro didn't claim his role but after that much confusion with Laser/Scene we got ourselves 2 claims on Day 1. If Laser (I have no idea to be honest) / Scene (statement changes, odd logic, suspicious of him) is not part of the Mafia that would mean that too much was wasted for nothing. I still don't get why Town would act like Laser or Scene did. In no way it was beneficial for Town.

Yeah, I hadn't read others/your posts about it when I made that post. I didn't understand you then if you weren't saying you thought micro was town from it, thought that was kind of the crux of all the reasoning you put forward about it. If you don't think he's town then why do you think he's a bad lynch?

I don't disagree that voting micro is lazy but like, a) I don't townread him, b) a lynch being lazy isn't necessarily a bad thing, c) I'm not that concerned about being lazy when none of the people I think might be town are up for lynch, d) I don't have anyone I super want to lynch.

If you have someone you think is a better alternative then please talk more about it, and talk about why you think micro is a bad lynch, because that's the way you're going to get something better or less lazy. If the only alternative is a policy lynch then, eh, we're just at an impasse because that argument does nothing for me.

Despite what ZFR's post makes it look like, we extremely rarely play meta. We usually have to tell SupplementScene repeatedly to stop playing meta. This game he hasn't touched meta once that I've seen, which I appreciate muchly!

Also, we almost never ever ever do a policy lunch. The only policy lunch I've ever seen (and I've played basically every game since #57) was where a new player (who signed up to gog forums to play mafia) made exactly two posts during all of D1--but often enough that they weren't eligible for a modkill/replacement. that was a unanimous D1 vote to remove the absentee player who refused to be subbed.

I hope this makes you more favorable to this site as your next long-term home for mafia.

And I get the headaches. I have them myself, sometimes, and they are no fun. i really do hope that yours go away in entirety, and soon.

Please tell me what you mean by "wolf"? I am confused.


++++++++++++++++++


Also, i'll say it again--i made the post because i was bored and there was literally nothing going on worth talking about. In doing so, I set myself up as a target. Scum plus some misled town have jumped on my case and are treating me like an easy lunch. I congratulate them on their perspicacity, diligence and vivaciousness in doing so. However, I remain a stupid lunch for D1 or any day because I am town. I haven't defended myself overly well because of IRL absences. Also, i really don't know how to defend a Vanilla Town Role.

I'd hope that those who know me better due to having played with me before would realize that I wouldn't do something that blatantly stupid if I wasn't town. :D
Note that it is basically the exact same tone I took in the HP game when I asked the question about "does your name match your power".
Some there took that as role-fishing and wanted me lunched for fishing because it looked fishy. (Some people always think or profess to think that a post I make in early days is fishy. I think they are biased against--or because of--my forum name.) RW saw it--correctly--as hinting that i had a PR.
You all failed to lunch ZFR last game when he said D1 "I have a PR; I dare you to lunch or NK me."
Those who remember back to the Unbeatable Duo days (#58) will remember how close Bookwyrm came to taking me out because of some blunder I made early days (trying to imitate my success from #57, but without the insight, skill, sheer "luck" or goal in my writing that i had had in #57. Instead, he thankfully DV'd one scum and with his very next post hammered the other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why, how and in what way is this different than those posts?

I showed up; I didn't just fly over the amazon hunting penguins (I think they are hiding for the winter), and I engaged (myself). The game was basically quiet. The only people talking were going round and round and round again over the same wheel hammering it and each other anew. I at least gave you a topic to talk about, which--out of gratitude if nothing else--should buy me a D2 opportunity. (The previous sentence will possibly seal my fate, but oh well.)

I think I'd be more careful if I was scum--I hope I'd be, anyway. My move--attracting attention needlessly--was stupid in the extreme. Others (Scene + others) have commented that scum like to hide. In my experience and hearing, scum like to hide until town are mis-lunching other townspeople (or at least non-scum) and will in any event never ever ever invite attention to themselves on purpose when there had been none before. The worst thing in the world for scum during Days is to be lunched. The 2nd worst thing is to have the spotlight shine on them because of something they said. They don't mind if they are in public, pointing the spotlight at others. They do. not. want. it. on. themselves. (unless they are bussing or otherwise protecting a teammate). (Bussing or protecting another scum on )D1 would be stupid. I'd give them time to wiggle out of it and would at least appear to be scumhunting them for their er, unwise comments.

TLDR: This. Is. In. Character. for me.
It'd be the height of folly for scum!micro--without any pre-existing conditions or suspicion upon him--to deliberately, maliciously, and wholeheartedly not just accept but volunteer to be in the spotlight.

Previously we'd had uncomfortable and downright weird conversations, plus circular talking which--surprisingly--went around and around and around again. now, because of my springboard, we have had convo with someone getting to L-2 & 24 hours to go. Sadly, that person is myself. But, however, I think I can take some amount of credit for sparking conversation onto a different track.
The current folderol and flap-jawed fuss--including hopping-to-conclusions, skipping-the-evidence, and leaping-to-points-here-there-and-anywhere-but-the-truth partakers from the unsavory team (along with certain bewitched, beguiled, and baffled members of the home team)--targeting me with flimsy exposition, geometrical thinking, and otherwise erroneous contemplations is just that--flapdoodle, balderdash, and flim-flam! Also, they are wrong.

But don't worry, fellow townspeople--I am so far town that I'd be off my trolley to vote for myself. Instead, we shall win! We have the will! We celebrate our victory by inviting the whole team up for tea! Be of stout heart--won't it be peachy if we win the game?

But we must leg it to get onto a sidetrack before the 4:10 express from London to Brighton comes bearing down the main!! Otherwise, we shall be up the creek without a paddle or a teapot, while the Boston lowbrows will take the cake and be off with a pile of our food!!

I think that--given the current VC--and because of the lasar/scene flap earlier, I shall

vote Scene
for disturbing the peace, eating pizza with a fork, liking pineapples on his pizza and ketchup on his jelly, breaking curfew, buttoning his knickerbockers below the knee, letting certain words creep into his vocabulary (words like "swell" and "how's your old man"), liking chocolate and hating broccoli, not eating his jelly beans with syrup or his hamburgers on a bun made out of sorbet, (and for the flap with Laser which I read as proof that Scene is probably a member of the scum team).

EBWOP=
VC= Vote Count

We will celebrate our victory by inviting the whole team up for tea &c.

My apologies for grammar which was as bad as a vaseline sandwich.

Because I don't think we will gain anything from lynching him unless he flips Mafia (which I doubt), because it's a lazy lynch and lazy lynches in most cases beneficial for Mafia, because there are some other *more suitable* candidates available at the moment which actually may provide some data (see below).

I see.
a) I do Town read him and not only due to my reasoning about reputation at stake (which turned out to be baseless), not only because it's too blunt of a move for Mafia, but also because he is the same good old Micro from previous game, in other words I haven't noticed any changes in his behavior, he even pocketed me a few times, he did so before and then I thought that he could be Mafia but it turned out that he was Town - that's why I think lynching Micro is the same as lynching Town - but I'm not ruling out the possibility that he could be Mafia, especially after SPF & ZFR pointed out to the flaws of my logic.

b) It isn't necessary a bad thing to lynch the easiest target, but it's not a profitable for Town either (unless, as I mentioned, it's a lucky hit), the good thing would be to check out who is doing what about this situation and try to find the most suspicions person, press him and maybe put him into a wagon.

c) Are you saying that Town players, according to own your personal list based on your analysis, are not willing to vote Micro and that means that voting Micro is a good thing? If yes, how exactly?

d) There is no one you want *super* to lynch, but you're okay to lynch Micro even though you don't want to *super* lynch him either. I guess you mean Micro is good as any and his wagon is almost full for a ride. That's a good reason of course, but not good enough for me. Please correct me if there was another meaning to it.

I'm going to talk and if nothing happens that should be no small talk. I'm not sure I can give you or others any more reasons why lynching Micro is not beneficial for Town more than I gave in that or previous posts, but I'll definitely going to provide some back up for my *lynch candidates*. Give me some time.

And here is something for a start.

The *more suitable candidates* are:
But first I have to press Laser to answer 2 of my posts just to be sure.

I addressed what I thought you were implying in that paragraph. I thought you were implying this was scum theater. I will be really surprised if that was scum theater. And while you indicated you are good voting between the two, you didn't answer my question. Do you think that was scum/scum?

If we lynch scene and he flips town, are you gonna to want to lynch Laser?

Of course there is more than one option. I had a strong gut read of what went down in that interaction. And after being annoyed that you may be right, you may be right. I had to do a gut check and admit I have been wrong on prior gut reads. I am going to try to read that interaction from all four viewpoints and see what I get.

Now, if it turns out I am right, gonna do a big fist pump. ;-) Scum would want them lynched.


Would you explain why you believe Micro is town?


(off topic) Thanks for the explanation on the simulation model. Should have been more specific. I'm familiar with the term itself. Never been in a game where one was used.

Well, it is all a meta read. Lift saw me make a joke once, in two early game posts of mine, and decided I deserved a vote for them. And it's not even claims that can make sense - I literally claimed Townie Mafioso, which is impossible in this game (open setup where everyone knows what roles and factions are available and all). But in the end, it is a meta read.

OK let me explain better.

There's no way we would know if scene's reactions are genuine Town reactions or still scum pretending to be Town. In the Haitian game by Joe, we hammered nmiliar, and the dude was like "what, without even giving me a chance to defend myself?" And he said this despite the fact he was Mafia. There was also another game where a hammered mafioso pretended to be a dying Townie before the flip revealed his bluff, but I don't remember what game it was.

Point is: mafia scene can claim vanilla, even if he knows he's going to flip and reveal his real role minutes later. His claim post-fake-kill is not an indicator of innocence, or guilt.

That's an excellent question which we should ask ourselves.
I don't like Laser for what he has done (I think he deserves a modkill, yes I know he hasn't broke any rules), I don't have any strong feelings/vibes about probability of him being Mafia, what what he has done was anti-Town both ways: if Scene lied and if Scene said the truth.
But one thing is certain for me: I might not be willing to vote Miss Pookina so much in that case (Scene flip Town).