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HypersomniacLive: Why are you prodding those on the wagon you're moving onto?
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Bookwyrm627: I poked everyone except Adalia, me, Flub, Trent, and Mchack. Adalia, Mchack, and I are all pretty clear on our voting preferences, and I had a feeling Flub and Trent weren't really interested in moving.

Per the above in the quote of me, I'm trying to shake out a little of who is where so we can get a lynch, since people have been playing with their cards close to their chests.

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HypersomniacLive: Also, I've already declared whom all I'm willing to vote Today - mchack, flubbucket, trentonlf.
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Bookwyrm627: I almost didn't ping you, thinking you might have left some names, but it was easier to just poke you rather than go digging for names, since I didn't remember your list off hand.

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mchack: oh well. I'm dissapointed, but it's just a game.
Good luck to town anyway. let's just hope scum will kill each other. town obviously doesn't want to lynch scum.
I'll be cheering from the dead thread.
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Bookwyrm627: On the bright side, you've managed to save Flub's life. So you got that going for you, which is nice. ;)

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trentonlf: Whether someone chooses to believe me or not is up to them, I just wanted mchack to understand I was serious in my deceleration. Now after today who knows, maybe I will be dead or recruited. If the game was formatted with no chance of my alignment changing I would have never swore anything on my Father's grave because that would not be very sportsmanlike.
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Bookwyrm627: Out of character for a moment: this next bit is regardless of my alignment. I apologize preemptively about how this might look like a pile-on, but it would bother me more not to say something.

Trent, I'm kind of with Leonard on this (PPE: and ZFR). I'm finding it rather awkward on my end when I'm stuck going "He's town for that, or he's lying about it", both of which feel really icky because past conversations/comments have indicated just how serious you are about friends and family. It is cutting too close to being a question of personal, beyond-the-game honor.

I'd also like to point out it sets a rather bad precedent for you even in alignment changing games. It pretty much sets you up to be lynched immediately If you won't make a similar swear.

No offense, but I'm going to do my best to pretend it didn't happen this time, and I'm going to request (as a personal favor) that you try to avoid such in the future.

Now, back in character!
I see my comment is being taken in a way I had not intended. I was honestly trying to convey my point to mchack that I am town and nothing beyond that. I didn’t anticipate adalia’s comment or HSL’s, if I had I would never had said what I did. And as I said to Leonard I would never have said what I did if my alignment didn’t have the possibility of being changed in the game after Day 1. I spoke on the spur of the moment to convey my point to mchack and meant no harm with the comment.

I apologize to everyone now if my comment was out of line or has caused an unfair balance to the game for Day 1 as that was never my intent. Whatever repercussion if any that Lift deems necessary I will abide by.
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trentonlf: I see my comment is being taken in a way I had not intended.

I apologize to everyone now if my comment was out of line or has caused an unfair balance to the game for Day 1 as that was never my intent. Whatever repercussion if any that Lift deems necessary I will abide by.
Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned. It could ripple past Day 1, but I think the point has been made. I, for one, am not interested in mod-induced repercussions as long as it is understood that personal honor is not at stake for someone voting/not voting you.

Lift could always give me a vig shot. I like having vig shots. O :)
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trentonlf: I see my comment is being taken in a way I had not intended.

I apologize to everyone now if my comment was out of line or has caused an unfair balance to the game for Day 1 as that was never my intent. Whatever repercussion if any that Lift deems necessary I will abide by.
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Bookwyrm627: Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned. It could ripple past Day 1, but I think the point has been made. I, for one, am not interested in mod-induced repercussions as long as it is understood that personal honor is not at stake for someone voting/not voting you.

Lift could always give me a vig shot. I like having vig shots. O :)
If someone chooses to vote me and not believe me I have no issues with that in the slightest because I assure you my honor is not at stake.
@trent That was me snapping back at you, but please get rid of that defeatist attitude. I don’t know if town will win but at least I haven’t given up on trying.
Unvote trentonlf

@HSL Yes it does answer my question, got some doubts to discusss post game or now if you’d like. What I’m sceptical about is that #31 happened more than 2 years ago and this one could be entirely personal attribute of mine but now when I look at my first games here which were near same time frame I’d hardly be able to rationalise what I was thinking back then while doing something. Might be that I just have a bad time remembering things in long run though.

Vote mchack
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trentonlf: I’m not offended in the slightest, just wanted to impress upon you that that is something I would never joke about. One of the most important aspects of my life is my family and friends, I would never joke about them like that.
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ZFR: Unvote mchack
[b[Vote trent

Sorry trent. This time it's not because I think you're scum, but because of the above you are now definitely a town liability. If the above is true, you're prime target to be recruited.
Wrong... he said he was not scum.
I will not double Post again!

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Leonard03: Vote: HypersomniacLive
this I can get behind to avoid no-lynch. (Basically everyone from my scumlist but this in particular. He does already have 2 votes. Else I'll stay with adalia. and lynching scum is better than no-lynch. lynching town is not (that's why trent and flub are off the table for me)

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Hunter65536: @HSL Yes it does answer my question, got some doubts to discusss post game or now if you’d like. What I’m sceptical about is that #31 happened more than 2 years ago and this one could be entirely personal attribute of mine but now when I look at my first games here which were near same time frame I’d hardly be able to rationalise what I was thinking back then while doing something. Might be that I just have a bad time remembering things in long run though.

Vote mchack
he was scum with me back then, he knows I did not play like I am now back then. I was always worried on what to say and have posted way, way less. if one's town, trying to lynch scum, it is much more easy to talk like you think is right. I am a bad liar. Do look back at his post #558 (that I still didn't answer) and the post by me he is answering and try to see how "leaving out that people may change their votes" would make a number of arguments of my scumread of adalia not stand. It's simply bullocks. I tried to answer all his questions honestly throughout the game but then in #558 he goes all: This is not what I meant without specifying, what it is he meant.

If you think I'm scum, I have no problem that you vote me. If you think I'm scum only because HSL said I was once scum two years ago and I post like that now? that's simply bullocks. read that game yourself if you want. see if you can spot how hsl posted differently then vs. now. he didn't. still he was scum back then. Read how I posted differently last game than now? I didn't. still I was town back there. This is no ground on which to lynch someone unless you are scum grasping for things to accuse one of to get a mislynch.

Also judge for yourself how he tried to bring up lynching flubs again, just after I told him he'd be judged by my flip. That was very telling.

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ZFR: Sorry trent. This time it's not because I think you're scum, but because of the above you are now definitely a town liability. If the above is true, you're prime target to be recruited.
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Hunter65536: Wrong... he said he was not scum.
uhm. care to read the thing you quoted again and your answer? this does not match. He said he wants trent gone for being a "liability" not scum. much like some see flubs was. But now that there is two. even the messed up logic of taking away conversion targets from scum by lynching town is shattered to bits. Why not just lynch scum. I really don't see what the problem is here.
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Hunter65536: Wrong... he said he was not scum.
Yeah, let's not go there...

I have to agree with ZFR though, trent is an option again for me for exactly the same reason flub is, and that kind of outing was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to avoid.

And I see voting is splintering off again.. I predict no lynch.

But it's ok, apparently mchack is cool with that despite me being scum for suggesting it might not be so bad earlier.
Funny how that works isn't it?
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Bookwyrm627: On the bright side, you've managed to save Flub's life. So you got that going for you, which is nice. ;)
Thank you for that, it's refreshing!


As for trent, I just stopped posting after his post last night and I won't touch it Today or ever again. I just hope he and others will do the same for the sake of this and future games.


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trentonlf: If someone chooses to vote me and not believe me I have no issues with that in the slightest because I assure you my honor is not at stake.
Joe, please don't :) Let's just drop it and move on.
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adaliabooks: Yeah, let's not go there...
...

@mchack This only splits the player votes further, you get that right? If you believed no lynch was not preferable then you wouldn't have said that. Also my response to ZFR was about the exact words trent said in post 614.
Dang it. Now I have to go rewatch Archer.

Unvote: trentonlf

Vote: HypersomniacLive
The reason??

Last minute shenanigans...... of course.
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Official Vote Count

flubbucket 1 - ZFR 643
adalia 2 - Sage 300, mchack 372
mchack 6 - dedo 361, HSL 572, adalia 573, Bookwyrm 601, Krypsyn 602, Hunter 649
HSL 3 - trent 588, Leonard 644, flubb 655

Everyone is a-voting
mchack is leading at L-1
If I forgot something, let me know

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trentonlf: I apologize to everyone now if my comment was out of line or has caused an unfair balance to the game for Day 1 as that was never my intent. Whatever repercussion if any that Lift deems necessary I will abide by.
I don't think repercussions are necessary, since all was ingame. I've seen lots of oaths ingame "I swear I'm town", "Scout's honour". So swearing on a father's grave and on mother's gravy doesn't mean anything in game. Isn't allowed to mean anything in game. So don't be offended if others take that oath as a joke or decide not to believe that. Proclaiming under oath that one is town is exactly what scum would do.

...Now, if you had established out of game that you never swear unless it's true and then use that established fact to break a game, that would be reason for modkill. But so far we only have your ingame word that you would never falsely swear. Which might be a scummy act.

@all: keep in mind that it's a game. Especially to the newbies: don't be fooled. Oaths and promises don't mean anything. Don't try to make 'unbreakable' oaths yourself and don't be offended after the game when it turns out that someone's oath was false and he was scum after all.
I will not double Post again!

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Hunter65536: @mchack This only splits the player votes further, you get that right? If you believed no lynch was not preferable then you wouldn't have said that. Also my response to ZFR was about the exact words trent said in post 614.
I believe no lynch is better than lynching town. trent and flub are town. no-lynch is better than lynching either of those.
this is a simple truth, unless you are scum.
scum can fight over who to convert and it's russian roullette. they might just loose their night actions and two! converting shots on simply killing who you guys want to lynch anyway. there is no way for anyone town to want to lynch either of those.

so. looks like we have a new viable wagon that has a very good chance on lynching scum!
unvote
vote Hypersomniaclive

how many people have stated they are averse to lynching HSL? none? right then you have your way to evade no lynch right there.
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mchack: how many people have stated they are averse to lynching HSL? none? right then you have your way to evade no lynch right there.
I won't be voting him today.