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Wizards and WarriorsMAX possible Attribute points at the start?(11 posts)(11 posts)
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Posted January 20, 2020
Sorry if I missed the answer for this question, I think it has to be asked - and probably already answered - many times before but I can't find it right away.

What is the max possible amount of Attribute points a new character can get while being created? I know this number is random but from what and up to what values?

EDIT: RTFM, idiot me! :D It says in plain English that an Attribute ranges from 1 to 18. So the possible sum varies from 8 to 144.
Post edited January 20, 2020 by Orphnos
Posted January 21, 2020
BTW, any ways to cheat the system? Endless re-rolling may exaust the weak-spirited...

EDIT: Idiot me again. I've found the W&W editor, it seems the only possible means to change your Attribute points (you should already have at least one character at the Inn). And it allows to raise them not higher than 12 each so I conclude that the sum of Attribute points of normally created character can't be more than 12*8 = 96.

EDIT 2: Why, the editor allows to set Attributes even on 18.

After toying with it some while I've found it boring and challenge-less to cheat like that though, so I'm back to the good old re-rolling.
Post edited January 22, 2020 by Orphnos
Posted January 22, 2020
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Orphnos: BTW, any ways to cheat the system? Endless re-rolling may exaust the weak-spirited...

EDIT: Idiot me again. I've found the W&W editor, it seems the only possible means to change your Attribute points (you should already have at least one character at the Inn). And it allows to raise them not higher than 12 each so I conclude that the sum of Attribute points of normally created character can't be more than 12*8 = 96.

EDIT 2: Why, the editor allows to set Attributes even on 18.

After toying with it some while I've found it boring and challenge-less to cheat like that though, so I'm back to the good old re-rolling.
Your attributes will increase on level-up anyways (and can also be trained in the guilds up to 20 once your guild level is high enough), so starting attributes aren't that important.One point to remind is that a character's intellect determines the amount of skill points he'll get each time you level up, so creating an overly dumb character may hinder his skill progression in those skills that aren't trained by usage.
Posted January 23, 2020
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jhAtgog: starting attributes aren't that important.
They aren't maybe but still the dispersion of the rolled sum can be +/- 20 points or even more, and you won't be happy with Fortitude of 3 for example. Moreover the already rolled attributes can't be decreased so you can't adequately redistribute the rolled sum (as you could in, say, M&M 3-5).
Posted January 23, 2020
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jhAtgog: starting attributes aren't that important.
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Orphnos: They aren't maybe but still the dispersion of the rolled sum can be +/- 20 points or even more, and you won't be happy with Fortitude of 3 for example. Moreover the already rolled attributes can't be decreased so you can't adequately redistribute the rolled sum (as you could in, say, M&M 3-5).
You are right, extremely low attributes might increase the starting difficulty a lot.

I was talking about the long run: you will increase the attributes by gaining levels (up to 18, I think), by training in the guilds (up to 20) and by using Ankhs and some other special items (up to 24). So if you start with an average set of attributes, you will be fine.
Posted January 24, 2020
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jhAtgog: So if you start with an average set of attributes, you will be fine.
I tried three different parties recently, quite average, and every time I gave up tired of constant deaths and started the new party. Maybe, I'm just can't grasp the essence of this game's peculiarities, especially mixed real-time/turn-based combat.
Posted January 24, 2020
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jhAtgog: So if you start with an average set of attributes, you will be fine.
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Orphnos: I tried three different parties recently, quite average, and every time I gave up tired of constant deaths and started the new party. Maybe, I'm just can't grasp the essence of this game's peculiarities, especially mixed real-time/turn-based combat.
Hmm that sounds unpleasant for sure.

Did you try to reduce the spawn rate and the enemy difficulty? You can increase them any time later when you feel more comfortable (after gaining one or two levels maybe?).

The risk of dying is pretty high in the beginning so save often. This will definitely get better once you get some xp and some decent equipment. So save often and rotate your save game all the time.

Did i forget to mention that saving often is really a good idea? Probably forgot it, so here it is: save often, especially in the beginning. Never ever ever use only one savegame. it's usually a good idea to create a savegame before entering a dungeon and to keep that savegame untouched just in case something goes very very wrong inside.

Aside from that: try to join as many guilds as possible (it's pretty expensive in the beginning, i know). Do their advancement quests as soon as you can. Get the mayors quests - the one with the skulls can give you some easy money and xp which helps in the beginning. Go to the graveyard and carefully proceed to only spawn one or two skeletons at once which you should be able to take out easily. Careful with the scripted battle in front of the crypt. If it catches you by surprise, there is a good chance that some members of your party get killed. So be prepared.

There is a list of tips here in the old Ironworks forum, but there are some spoilers too, so beware.
Posted January 25, 2020
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jhAtgog: Did you try to reduce the spawn rate and the enemy difficulty? You can increase them any time later when you feel more comfortable (after gaining one or two levels maybe?).
Well, I just thought I'm capable enough to try this game at Normal difficulty :)
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jhAtgog: save often
Of course, I used to save as often as every ten steps :)
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jhAtgog: There is a list of tips here in the old Ironworks forum, but there are some spoilers too, so beware.
Yes, I did find it some time ago. It's very long though and really full of spoilers that I don't like at all, so I quit reading :)

The combat system is the main difficulty for me, I think. I'm more a pure turn-based RPG player (classic M&M 1-5 and Wizardry) or pure real-time (Diablo and the like) but here this hybrid system confuses me still.

Maybe you're right and I just need to drop the difficulty down... Forgive me, mum, your son is a sucker :)
Post edited January 25, 2020 by Orphnos
Posted January 25, 2020
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jhAtgog: Did you try to reduce the spawn rate and the enemy difficulty? You can increase them any time later when you feel more comfortable (after gaining one or two levels maybe?).
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Orphnos: Well, I just thought I'm capable enough to try this game at Normal difficulty :)
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jhAtgog: save often
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Orphnos: Of course, I used to save as often as every ten steps :)
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jhAtgog: There is a list of tips here in the old Ironworks forum, but there are some spoilers too, so beware.
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Orphnos: Yes, I did find it some time ago. It's very long though and really full of spoilers that I don't like at all, so I quit reading :)

The combat system is the main difficulty for me, I think. I'm more a pure turn-based RPG player (classic M&M 1-5 and Wizardry) or pure real-time (Diablo and the like) but here this hybrid system confuses me still.

Maybe you're right and I just need to drop the difficulty down... Forgive me, mum, your son is a sucker :)
Well from all that i have read from you so far, you sound pretty capable of playing the game on any difficulty. :)
Don't give up, the game may be a bug ridden mess, but it can be pretty fun to play nevertheless.
Posted January 26, 2020
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jhAtgog: The game may be a bug ridden mess, but it can be pretty fun to play nevertheless.
Ah, that's exactly that can't let me go, this game has a charm, an atmosphere, the handprint of Bradley's genius (that implies bugs, imbalance and fun with equal proportions).
Posted February 02, 2020
The initial difficulty hurdle can be a little steep. Turning down the difficulty to begin with is nothing to worry about. Easy and Often spawns to get just three or so levels is extremely helpful. *However*, turning the game back to Hard can actually end up being just as easy (and more rewarding) later on, since the enemies reward a lot more experience. In terms of millions, even, if killing certain named entities.

A tip to prevent frustration: keep all your quest items in one PC, preferably one in the back, and check their pack after battling thieving enemies (nymphs, imps, brigands, etc). They can take quest items (which will drop after the fight, but better to notice now than wonder where in the world it dropped later) as well as normal items and ALL of the gold in the PC's gold sack.

This game has such a unique atmosphere and various interesting little secrets to explore. Best of luck! :)
Post edited May 15, 2020 by Lysanafae
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Wizards and WarriorsMAX possible Attribute points at the start?(11 posts)(11 posts)
(11 posts)