I'll admit my thoughts have been corrupted by a hyper-focus on MDPs. But, a few notes: A dual stiletto lord is a viable character. Good enough in physical damage, but still yet a great character. Partially because divinity is a great school of magic. Power cast spell casting warriors are good for certain parties. The penalty is a minor factor in spell damage at high enough levels. The biggest issue caused by the penalty is a reduction in casting in green. But, if you can afford to chance it, a hybrid can always cast in orange. All expert skills can be useful, and useless, depending on party. Power cast is most useful in an MDP, but could be ignored with little penalty in a melee party, for example. one hundred physical resistance not only is immunity to physical damage, it prevents any secondary effects from such attacks.

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I think primarily focusing on one of the three types of damage inflicting is a good strategy for this game. I'm trying out a ranged party now, but without a triple-shot machinist, a knock-out adder, or a critical hurler. Trying eagle eyes on most characters and an int/speed, sens/dex bishop. For funsies. That's actually the only divinity caster in the party. Pumping all schools save psionic till they hit forty-five. Not going to power-train locks & traps via spending an hour or two inspecting the same trap, or any of that stuff.

Dwarves get damage resistence... And, yes, body of stone is required to max it out.

When the game first came out, forum posters pointed out about using the bank vault to power-level locks & traps, and then the patch neutered it by setting a variable on each lock that caps how many progress points can be gained from said lock per game. (!) Not as bad as the patch making pick pocketing almost completely useless, but it makes one wonder just how much Sir-Tech Canada would have neutered if they had more time.

My current party of a human bishop, a hobbit alchemist, a human monk, a hobbit ninja, a hobbit ranger, and a hobbit samurai has conquered the monastery. I wonder if the ranger's eighty senses plus five from the hunter's cape is enough to detect the buckler before the waterfall. (Methinks it's put there for people who grab early detect secrets.) I've heard a senses of ninety is required without scouting, and I know from personal experience that scouting reduces the required senses for the potion near the book of stamina.

I actually wish there were a few enemies with 100% physical immunity, just to keep physical parties from being as dominant as they are.

I agree. Burz should sell Magic Nectar potions/Mana Stones at the beginning of the game, to give MDP parties hope.
The only hope I had with my current MDP was levelling up (hard work, something these kids have no idea of). I got to level 21 before attempting the Arnika Road the first time.
Dwarven damage resistance seems insignificant, compared to what you can get from the Alchemist's Body of Stone spell (71% at max). I don't understand those who worry about racial bonuses.
You can always come back to the Lower Monastery for those items that you missed (and it's often required to finish the game properly, and you should get them on your first try, especially the items at the waterfall.
Enemies that are immune to physical damage I am fine with, provided that the game gives an MDP an early chance, as described above.

Or at least there should be a few such potions in the Monastery, to make it easier to get to Arnika the first time,

A dwarven monk would be an interesting tank setup, due to being able to stack dwarf and monk damage resistance, except for the fact that stealth, which you can't turn off, makes the character less likely to be the target of enemy attacks.

I really wish you could turn off stealth; it makes me not want to use what would otherwise be a fun class.

(Worth noting that this particular race/class combination starts out as an apprentice with negative bonus points.)

MDPs are far more efficient for most of the game. But, due to a variety of factors, stacking fighters is often considered the most optimized play. If you've ever tried a six fighter party, however, you'll know just how reckless forgoing magic really is. That's why one proposed strongest party is three fighters, a mage, a priest, and an alchemist. I've had much worse times on Arnika road with PDPs than MDPs, which is my personal bias, but why does one need magic nectars for Arnika road? Well, and I don't have as much experience stacking fighters, since I like spell-casting warriors too much.

Physical immune monsters wouldn't gel well with the character generation, unless they had basically no hit points. instead we got adamantium slimes.

The point of iron skin dwarves is that they can get to one hundred a tad faster. (To say nothing about the times body of stone is not active.) I don't think apprentices are that bad, unless certain expert skills by a certain level is mandatory for the party build. A lizardman bishop is still a bishop, after all. Stealth works just as well as physical immunity in most cases, which is the problem with iron skin. I've seen some people having a penchant for the dwarven lord, and I can see the logic there.

What did he mean by "required to finish the game properly?" If I needed a buckler that badly, I could just trash a fighter on the beach...

I've seen you cry youngin's to things I've seen suggested by a person who played The Bard's Tale II the same year it came out. I guess it's true what they say: you have to grow old; you don't have to grow up. And, crying youngin's is one of the most sophomoric things there is!

I'm guessing running a successful MDP, on expert, is the ultimate fundamental skills check this game has to offer, since it's one of the smoothest runs possible, even for a neonate.

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My Alchemist has over fifty-one in alchemy and we haven't even made it to Arnika yet. Specialist casters are stupid. Blinding flash never gets more than a few enemies at a time—ha! I think the hardest stretch is the area between the monastery and the chest near the free awl pike. Had to outmaneuver a pack of half-a-dozen seventh level higardi. This party kills very slowly, but it'll get better as they grow. Not to mention Arnika's high-powered weaponry.

Problem with Stealth is this:
* If I have a character with a defensive build, I *want* that character to be targeted by enemy attacks, so that the enemies don't target my squishier characters instead.
* But if the character has Stealth, then that character is *less* likely to be targeted, and other, squishier, characters are *more* likely to be targeted.

There's also the fact that high Stealth leads to degenerate gameplay, particularly once everyone else is dead or not present.

In my experience:
* That stretch isn't a problem.
* The stretch from there to Arnika-Trynton Road, on the other hand, can be a problem unless you get lucky.
* Also, I find that the most notable treasure at that spot is the Piercing Pipes, not the Awl Pike. The Piercing Pipes give you the first area spell that you can stamina cast, and are a unique item, whereas I seem to remember Awl Pikes being buyable.

If they can targeting the squishier characters with a ninja, they can do so with an iron skin tank too, by the way.

Now, the highest stealth I've ever attained was under thirty with a level fifteen or sixteen rogue, so...

How? There is much more room to navigate, nooks to force melee monster to queue up, and the area behind the house is safe to rest in. The first part is where you can run from piercer modais into crusher crabs!

The point of that area is less the gear—although it's the first awl pike that the party is likely to get, and it's stronger than all the guaranteed weapons by that part—even if one can get a lot of lucky drops from the monastery—the point is if you can get that far, you can get to the house.

(The throwing stars can be useful loot from that location too, but I do agree that the piercing pipes is the best item to be had from that location, and marks the start of a spell-damage bard. Of course, I have no bard!)

[I shouldn't have second guessed myself, my alchemist has fifty-six alchemy, and my bishop now has forty wizardry. Everyone is level six right now, so the bishop will get x-ray no later than level nine.]

edit: Well, now everyone is level seven and at Arnika. Over sixty alchemy, and forty-five wizardry. Time to start making renewal potions.

First of all, I was thinking more the dwarven monk case.

Secondly, having the extra target who can take hits means that there's a lower chance that the target will be the mage I don't want to be targeted than if that target has Stealth and therefore less likely to be targeted.

If it weren't for this issue, I would certainly consider using a dwarven monk, but as is, I stay away from Stealth classes because I don't like the mechanic.

(With that said, I'm willing to use items like the Lithe Buckler, as that item's effect can be turned off by unequipping it, plus the bonus is far too small for degenerate gameplay to be an issue.)

I agree about the Stealth thing. Characters with this ability selfishly pass the damage onto other team members without Stealth. This is why, in my earlier parties, I would pair up a Fighter and Rogue up front. This would divert most of the front damage onto the Fighter, who has the best armor choices and hit points. Also, these two classes do the most melee damage in the game, so have a good synergy (neither needs to worry about Vitality or shields, imo).
A dwarven monk starts out as an apprentice. No thanks. Never done that before, have no intention of trying it.
How are you supposed to do the Arnika Road the first time as a MDP, at low level, with very little spell points available? I believe that there are only two Magic Nectars available in the Monastery, behind where you talk to Altheides. That's it. No way to replenish spell points except by resting, which can be risky. Thankfully, having an Alchemist in the party, he/she will make a potion every rest cycle (I think every 24 hours), so you can "grind" your naps, hoping for Magic Nectar.
I spoke poorly. What I meant by "required to finish the game properly" was that the Demonsbane and Demonsting weapons from the Wheel Key sidequest are meant to be used to kill Al-Sedexus. You don't exactly need them, but I find that setting a portal makes this much easier, as well as grabbing those random items by the waterfall when you're more powerful.
"Crying about young kids" probably comes from the fact that at my job, new kids being hired are being given a lot of the easier jobs, despite being new. I've been at my job for almost 20 years, and I can't seem to get one of these "good jobs that kids get". So sue me.
Congratulations on getting to Arnika. That's arguably the worst part of the game.

Missile shield more or less takes care of ranged physical, formation and proper positioning takes care of extended and close physical. If a crush is enough to geek the mage, maybe you need to up your resistances, or preemptively cast guardian angel, as that will still happen without stealth. (Of course, in an MDP, monsters die so freaky fast that the mage is often never in danger. A mage in a PDP might be a drain on the divinity caster, though.)

Just rest. You should have shadow hound, after all. As long as you can make it to the chest, you're golden. Few monsters, at that point, can survive four characters spamming AOEs. You should be able to do that for at least three rounds straight, and then you can single target clean-up, or cast fist, as it was. Just don't stray too far too fast, and anything that disturbs your sleep will die before you know it. Some crooks even prevent monsters from going to close, which allows full blast before another quick nap.

Or, if you're doing a no-sleep challenge, just run. You did build high stamina thieves, right? Bombs are also an option here. What else are you going to pump those points into for two out of the mage, psionic, and alchemist? There's only one great guaranteed end-game staff after all. Or just go all bishop: it's absurd. Of course, if no sleep challenge means placing a portal at the mana fountain, well, the lack of skill ups should still make it hard, but it will always feel like a cop-out.

I typically grab the demon weapons on my way to UBC after Arnika, I often use the bow, but not the sword. Not bad for a samurai or ranger, though. Like to buy some books, ammo, and sometimes a hayai bo from Kunar before Trynton. And get some Locks & Traps skill-ups, too.

Arnika would be my favorite part, if the Monastery wasn't better. The game is mostly too easy and boring past that point. Well, the peak has some nasty battles. I guess that's what playing things like Swordflight, Age of Decadence, and Augury of Chaos does to someone. I really need to play The Return of Werdna, Chaos Strikes Back, and The Dark Heart of Uukrul. I saw someone who recently finished Wiz IV say that it might be the worst game he ever played: that's high praise. (And that the highlights are the Maze of Wandering and the Cosmic Cube.) But, this might be the hardest party I've made it to Arnika on expert, and it wasn't even hard. If I want hard, I'll have to try the five fighters and a rogue party.

Crying about, and crying are two different things: Learn English. (One has a more negative connotation, after all.) But, it is nice to be vindicated.

No, you probably don't have Shadow Hound at this point, given that you're probably level 5.

* A mage has probably just gained access to this spell level, and a player is probably going to want something cool like Fireball, or if the player is smart, Noxious Fumes or Freeze Flesh, as their first level 3 mage spell. Furthermore, said player is probably going to be using Missile Shield, so not enough SP to also cast Shadow Hound.
* A Bishop is unlikely to have the skill needed to learn Shadow Hound, and is probably going to want to prioritize something like Armorplate, anyway.
* A Samurai is not going to be a high enough level to learn that spell at that point.
As I said, I dislike the Stealth mechanic, so I don't use classes that get that skill.
The bombs available at this point in the game don't feel worth the cost of using a consumable. To make matters worse, bombs can fail and are worth a lot of money when sold. (Sir-Tech really over-valued consumables. Given that players have a tendency to under-value them, the result is that players really don't like to use them at all.)

Wizardry 4 is one of my favorite games, to the point where I wish there were more games like it, though perhaps not as difficult.

In case of Crush:
* The damage can be highly variable.
* Initiative order might not allow for Element Shield or Guardian Angel to be cast in time.

That was in reference to an MDP, where why wouldn't you grab shadow hound early? And, obtaining level six usually happens before reaching Arnika, if not level seven. I did take shadow hound on my Bishop though, because she didn't have enough divinity to take either armor plate or magic screen. And she has enough SP to often cast both missile shield and shadow hound at power level three. And that got me to Arnika, so it's a working strategy, at the very least. (Also, no deaths, but I know what I'm doing. And am immensely lucky, for some reason.)

Thieves are not rogues, but rogues are thieves. Alongside bards and gadgeteers, of course. That was in reference to a "classical" MDP. Can't quite beat the running prowess of a fighter, but should get enough distance.

They won't backfire at this point if one has been building throwing. If one has trouble, try something different, is what I'm getting at here. To anyone who tries what Josh Sawyer mentioned seeing with people playing New Vegas: you do know the infamous definition of insanity, no?

Yeah, it should be harder. To be fair, it's more of a classical pre–Lucasfilm Games adventure with mapping challenges and combat than an RPG. They were built to be obtuse with frustrating lose cases. And, they don't build men like Roe R. Adams III anymore.

Then having an extra target may not even help, so... Good thing resurrection is cheap, I guess. (Or, maybe a mage should go for iron will, heh.)

My Mage did go for Iron Will, and is immune to status ailments (all resistances above 100). However, that doesn't mean that she won't take damage from enemy attacks (most magic attacks are highly variable). The best that I can hope for is a quick save and reload, so that things go my way (this IS an endurance game, where literally everyone is against you).