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Wizardry series[Wizardry 8] Here's what healer optimization looks like(11 posts)(11 posts)
(11 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 16, 2024
So, I decided to work out what the best healer would be, and I came up with a build.

Here are the goals for this build:
* Full caster level for Divinity.
* Should spend most levels as a Priest. (Best class for learning healing magic.)
* Wants Power Cast as soon as possible.
* Obviously, we want this character to be good with the Divine realm.

And some non-goals:
* We do not care about other things.
* In particular, we do not care about Initiative.

So, the build looks something like this:
* Race: Elf
* Starting class: Bishop (for higher starting Intelligence)
* Stat distribution: 10 INT, 10 VIT (could get away with 8), minimum 5 PIE. For this build, let's do 10 of each (which will allow maxing PIE later for more SP), giving 65/65/45..
* Start with 12 Wizardry, as there's some level 2 Mage spells we want.
* Spell picks, maybe favor Divine. If no other Wizardry caster, save a spell pick

Level ups:
* Level 2: +3 INT/VIT. Save the spell pick. +3 Wizardry/Divinity/Divine Magic.
* Level 3: Ditto (though Wizardry is optional). With 15 Wizardry, we can pick level 2 Mage spells; take Enchanted Blade and Magic Missiles for more Divine SP. (And those spells could be used, of course; Magic Missiles provides an early cone attack, which is nice.) If no Wizardry caster, take Missile Shield.
* Level 4: +3 INT/VIT again.
* Level 5: Change to Priest, which takes 1 more VIT. We can now do +3 INT/+2 PIE (PIE now at 67). We probably can't pick 3rd level Priest spells now, as the 25% primary skill bonus isn't active during the level up. Can't boost Wizardry (though the skill still provides some SP).
* Level 6+: Level up as Priest, enjoying the 25% skill bonus. +3 INT/PIE. Max INT at level 11 (with Trynton fountain bonus), PIE at 16. Can likely pick 3rd level spells at level 6, since the 25% bonus is now active, and could also learn such spells from books at level 5.
Posted August 18, 2024
Interesting.

Rare to go from a Bishop to a Priest.

But why do you feel that it is better to train healing as a priest than a bishop? You might be a level or two ahead, but the bishop will get more spells which equals more spell points. For the Divine element non-priest spells there is also Eye for an Eye, Summon Elemental, Draining Cloud, and Might to Magic.

I would also say that a "healer" character would also need the water realm for Stamina and Rest All, and the cure condition spells.

EDIT: If you cast Magic Missiles after switching to priest, do you still train divine magic? I know switching from priest to Lord takes your spells off your list for training purposes, but you can still cast them. So you probably don't if you cast a non-priest spell.
Post edited August 18, 2024 by drpetrov
Posted August 18, 2024
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drpetrov: Interesting.

Rare to go from a Bishop to a Priest.

But why do you feel that it is better to train healing as a priest than a bishop? You might be a level or two ahead, but the bishop will get more spells which equals more spell points. For the Divine element non-priest spells there is also Eye for an Eye, Summon Elemental, Draining Cloud, and Might to Magic.

I would also say that a "healer" character would also need the water realm for Stamina and Rest All, and the cure condition spells.

EDIT: If you cast Magic Missiles after switching to priest, do you still train divine magic? I know switching from priest to Lord takes your spells off your list for training purposes, but you can still cast them. So you probably don't if you cast a non-priest spell.
Being a level or 2 ahead means getting access to the higher level healing spells faster, particularly Resurrection and Restoration, and this build prioritizes that. Also, you don't need to spend as much effort raising Divinity as a Priest because of the 25% bonus.

I'm pretty sure you can train Divine Magic if you cast Magic Missiles as a Priest. You can even train an Alchemist's Mental Magic by casting any spells from that realm the character knows from a prior class, and if you know such a spell you can put points into the skill at level up.

For Priest->Lord, the character can't train magic skills for 4 levels, but can still train Power Cast if that skill is open. (My first party, IIRC, had such a character.)
Posted August 18, 2024
Why should I put the well-being of the team in the hands of a person who is subject to the false belief in an omnipotent entity,
and who has a not insignificant probability of committing perverse acts against minors. :p

My healer optimization:
1st inventory slot: 5 potions of restauration
2nd: 5 rez powder
3rd: 5 smelling salts
4th: 5 cure para powder
Amulets of Healing, scrolls of Rest all ...
Last not least, avoid bad stuff and you dont need heals etc
Post edited August 18, 2024 by townltu
Posted August 18, 2024
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townltu: Why should I put the well-being of the team in the hands of a person who is subject to the false belief in an omnipotent entity,
and who has a not insignificant probability of committing perverse acts against minors. :p

My healer optimization:
1st inventory slot: 5 potions of restauration
2nd: 5 rez powder
3rd: 5 smelling salts
4th: 5 cure para powder
Amulets of Healing, scrolls of Rest all ...
Last not least, avoid bad stuff and you dont need heals etc
The problems with that are:
* Getting the items in the first place, particularly since consumables tend to be overpriced in Wizardry 8
* They also take up inventory space
* Healing magic is powerful enough in Wizardry 8 that often it's better to allow some bad stuff to happen and heal afterwords than to avoid it in the first place. For example, Guardian Angel is wasted if the enemy decides not to attack that character, while Heal Wounds will only get used if the character is actually attacked (and hit).
* I really find it unsatisfying to get my healing through items that anyone can use rather than abilities that my characters have developed throughout the game. (I do like infinite healing items, particularly those that affect the entire party, but the only ones that exist in Wizardry 8 have specific class level and skill requirements.)

As for the religious aspect, I actually wish RPGs in general would not associate healing magic with religion, as it does feel wrong to me. Dragon Wars is one game that takes an interesting approach; the most religious type of magic, Sun Magic, is actually the one with the strongest offensive spells, and all 3 advanced magic skills get a party heal spell.
Posted August 19, 2024
There's nothing wrong with this kind of specialist, though for my money I think I would rather have several decent healers instead of one great one, since you can't count on your healer not going down. In my mind the advantage of a lord/valkyrie is that though they have less spells, they can be counted on as more likely to survive in order to give healing.

I also usually run 2 bishops as my main casters, and I also usually run a bard as well.
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dtgreene: As for the religious aspect, I actually wish RPGs in general would not associate healing magic with religion, a...
The original Dungeons and Dragons is the well from which all this comes from, and the original cleric spells were based largely on biblical miracles. It just ran from there.

After that it became a convenient line to draw when balancing the spellcasting classes against one another.
Posted August 19, 2024
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drpetrov: There's nothing wrong with this kind of specialist, though for my money I think I would rather have several decent healers instead of one great one, since you can't count on your healer not going down. In my mind the advantage of a lord/valkyrie is that though they have less spells, they can be counted on as more likely to survive in order to give healing.

I also usually run 2 bishops as my main casters, and I also usually run a bard as well.
You could, of course, have one great healer and a couple decent healers. Or you could have a healer like the one I describe here and an INT/SPD(/SEN) bishop with healing spells; the main healer will get the good healing spells faster and, late game, possibly have Iron Will to guard against status ailments, while the bishop will be able to get the heal off quickly if needed and cure the healer if necessary. Could also add a bard or gadgeteer, though keep in mind that they can't heal at all at the lower levels (without consumables, of course).

Also, a healer who has Iron Will is less likely to succumb to status ailment effects, especially if you get caught without your shield spells.

By the way, a couple things I forgot to mention in my reply to townltu's post:
* Items don't give you the same power that good spells do. Amulet of Healing is only ~60 healing as opposed to the ~90 that's possible with PL7 + 100PC, while Rest All scrolls will heal less than half what the spell restores at PL7 + 100PC.
* Restoration is not readily available via item means. If we look at the items with that spell, one is self only (making it useless for curing certain status ailments like unconsciousness), one is extremely rare (and only usable by Fighter/Lord/Valkyrie if you do get it), and the third is restricted in such a way that I treat it as a class feature rather than an item (only a level 18 Bard with 85 Music can use it).
Posted August 20, 2024
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dtgreene: By the way, a couple things I forgot to mention in my reply to townltu's post:
* Items don't give you the same power that good spells do. Amulet of Healing is only ~60 healing as opposed to the ~90 that's possible with PL7 + 100PC, while Rest All scrolls will heal less than half what the spell restores at PL7 + 100PC.
Since you mentioned it, by how much does a Power Cast of 100 increase your power level?
Posted August 20, 2024
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dtgreene: By the way, a couple things I forgot to mention in my reply to townltu's post:
* Items don't give you the same power that good spells do. Amulet of Healing is only ~60 healing as opposed to the ~90 that's possible with PL7 + 100PC, while Rest All scrolls will heal less than half what the spell restores at PL7 + 100PC.
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drpetrov: Since you mentioned it, by how much does a Power Cast of 100 increase your power level?
I believe it's something like a 25% or 26% increase to spell power (in addition to the benefit to penetrating enemy spell resistance).

It's not always equivalent to a power level increase. For example, Light's power level doesn't affect the duration, but Power Cast will.

Also, some spells you might not expect to be affected, like Haste and Superman, are. On the other hand, Power Cast still won't boost the power of Set Portal or Return to Portal.
Posted August 23, 2024
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dtgreene: So, the build looks something like this:
* Race: Elf
* Starting class: Bishop (for higher starting Intelligence)
* Stat distribution: 10 INT, 10 VIT (could get away with 8), minimum 5 PIE. For this build, let's do 10 of each (which will allow maxing PIE later for more SP), giving 65/65/45..
* Start with 12 Wizardry, as there's some level 2 Mage spells we want.
* Spell picks, maybe favor Divine. If no other Wizardry caster, save a spell pick
So, I was poking around with this and I think you might be better off starting with Gnome rather than Elf for this build.

A gnome will have 25 remaining stat points instead of 30, and a maximum of 9 points per stat instead of 10. So you won't be able to get a 65 in INT and thus won't get Power Cast until level 12 instead of 11. I know your goal was to get Power Cast as fast as possible, but being behind by one level probably won't hurt that much.

Meanwhile the Gnome starts with a VIT of 50, meaning you can get that to 55 at character creation and never have to put stat points into VIT at level up. This allows you invest in PIE right away and get Iron Will at level 13 instead of 16.

So you could start with INT/PIE/VIT of 62/64/59. Your healer will be much hardier at early levels. The extra HP will be quite handy. Also having a bit more PIE at the lower levels will mean more ability to train spells as you will take a bit longer before running out of spell points, so your skills would likely be a bit higher (especially those skills that depend on PIE).

The down side of this strategy is that your SPD starts at 35 instead of 45. But all the other stats look to be about the same. If that was a problem you could instead start with 62/64/55 and put the remaining 4 points into SPD for a 39. If you are investing in SPD after maxing INT you would match the elf at level 14 and still have more PIE.

A gnome would probably be better than elf particularly for a build where in addition to being a caster you also dabbled with weapons. Having the higher VIT at the start makes this a little more viable for you. STR is still a problem as much as it is for the elf version, but you have those 4 extra stat points at the start... instead of VIT 59 you could do 55 and put the other 4 points into STR or DEX.

Seems a bit more flexible.
Posted October 24, 2024
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townltu: Why should I put the well-being of the team in the hands of a person who is subject to the false belief in an omnipotent entity,
and who has a not insignificant probability of committing perverse acts against minors. :p

My healer optimization:
1st inventory slot: 5 potions of restauration
2nd: 5 rez powder
3rd: 5 smelling salts
4th: 5 cure para powder
Amulets of Healing, scrolls of Rest all ...
Last not least, avoid bad stuff and you dont need heals etc
LOL touche
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Wizardry series[Wizardry 8] Here's what healer optimization looks like(11 posts)(11 posts)
(11 posts)