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Wizardry seriesW8 Magic Damage Party(281 posts)(281 posts)
(281 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 08, 2021
The Tripleshot Crossbow will grant anyone who can use it(Bard/Gadgeteer only in my party), +2 attacks, which means extra chances for Ranged Combat and Bow skill increases. Because the Bard and Gadgeteer maxed Strength, they have a decent amount of Stamina, and can last a long time firing away. Is the Elven Bow worth not having a Human? Just one item?
Posted September 08, 2021
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RChu1982: The Tripleshot Crossbow will grant anyone who can use it(Bard/Gadgeteer only in my party), +2 attacks, which means extra chances for Ranged Combat and Bow skill increases. Because the Bard and Gadgeteer maxed Strength, they have a decent amount of Stamina, and can last a long time firing away. Is the Elven Bow worth not having a Human? Just one item?
Assuming you're importing a party from Wizardry 7, I'd say it would be worth it simply because, if you have it, you have it right at the start of Wizardry 8. (Also, I don't think there's much long-term advantage to using a Human over an Elf in Wizardry 7.)

This is assuming that there isn't some other item you decide is more worth importing to Wizardry 8. (You can only import a limited number of more powerful items, and the really powerful stuff doesn't transfer.)

If you are not importing your Wizardry 7 save into Wizardry 8, or if you did not find the Elven Bow in Wizardry 7, and you're not modding or save editing, you should ignore this particular weapon, as the only way to get it in 8 is to transfer it from 7.

Some other racially restricted items, notably the Giant's Sword (4 guaranteed locations) and the Cane of Corpus (not guaranteed, but more likely than not to drop from a certain NPC, and it's one of the NPCs that players are more likely to choose to fight), might be worth choosing a specific race, but there's no point in choosing a race for an item you can't actually find in the game.
Posted September 08, 2021
Elves are great for casters. I actually did that in my old parties, simply because, they seem suited for a caster class(especially Bishops, who need a lot of stats). However, I have learned that Powercast is quick to play catch-up on(any spell will trigger the skill up for Powercast once unlocked).
I think that choosing a Fairy Ninja, in the hopes that you will get the Cane of Corpus, is just plain cheesy. If you like playing as a Fairy Ninja, then fine. But building a whole race and class around one item...the developers dropped the ball on that one. It makes one race/class combination overpowered. What were they thinking?
Whacking the Don right away seems reckless. Most players will disagree with me, but I found Don Barlone to be somewhat honorable in that he follows the code, and he is against the Dark Savant, who shafted the Rattkin, and he wants his money, and will offer the player character the Astral Dominae in exchange for money. So he gets his money, the player gets the Astral Dominae, and the Savant gets shafted.
Only after I legitimately purchase the AD, do I still get Rattkin goon squads extorting me. This is when I bring it up with Don Barlone, and his assistant, Milano Calzone. There come disagreements, and then both of them get whacked, by my hand. This is just a "fair" storytelling by me.
Posted September 10, 2021
Do you think my Priest should use the Diamond Eyes, Mauler, or Vampire chain? I have slowly been training my Priest in the Close Combat, Mace and Flail, and Shield skills. I know that he can not dual wield(effectively, pure casters don't get that skill, probably for balance reasons).
It was brought up that whips, including the Bullwhip, Cat O' Nine Tails, Prisoner's Chain, and Vampire Chain, have extended range, and are one-handed, and can be used with a shield, but they only get half the damage bonus from Strength, like a ranged weapon. I wonder how useful the "drain Stamina 100%" effect is on the Vampire Chain.
The Mauler has a Strength requirement, not hard for my Priest to meet with his 45 Strength as a Human. The Diamond Eyes looks like a good weapon to use, even in the main hand, along with a *Light Shield* perhaps. The Round Shield is the best he can equip right now, mediocre at best.
Posted September 10, 2021
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RChu1982: Do you think my Priest should use the Diamond Eyes, Mauler, or Vampire chain? I have slowly been training my Priest in the Close Combat, Mace and Flail, and Shield skills. I know that he can not dual wield(effectively, pure casters don't get that skill, probably for balance reasons).
It was brought up that whips, including the Bullwhip, Cat O' Nine Tails, Prisoner's Chain, and Vampire Chain, have extended range, and are one-handed, and can be used with a shield, but they only get half the damage bonus from Strength, like a ranged weapon. I wonder how useful the "drain Stamina 100%" effect is on the Vampire Chain.
The Mauler has a Strength requirement, not hard for my Priest to meet with his 45 Strength as a Human. The Diamond Eyes looks like a good weapon to use, even in the main hand, along with a *Light Shield* perhaps. The Round Shield is the best he can equip right now, mediocre at best.
Generally, if I'm using a Priest, they will have Power Strike at this point or be close to using it, so The Mauler is the obvious choice here:
* It does more damage than Diamond Eyes.
* It boosts Mace skill, which might be helpful for getting that second attack/swing (which isn't that easy for pure casters like the Priest)
* It's buyable from Ferro, so it doesn't take away any options from other characters. By contrast, there's only one reliable Diamond Eyes, so giving it to your Priest will prevent anyone else from using it.

(On the other hand, Diamond Eyes usually comes earlier, along with a Giant's Sword and the instrument that casts Succubus Song (Lifesteal isn't that great as a standard spell, but it's actually not that bad as a stamina cast spell).)

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RChu1982: It was brought up that whips, including the Bullwhip, Cat O' Nine Tails, Prisoner's Chain, and Vampire Chain, have extended range, and are one-handed, and can be used with a shield, but they only get half the damage bonus from Strength, like a ranged weapon. I wonder how useful the "drain Stamina 100%" effect is on the Vampire Chain.
It's not that common for enemies to run out of Stamina, and when it happens, it's usually because the battle is taking a long time, or because the enemies are using breath attacks (which consume a lot of stamina, just like when your dracon uses them), with stamina drain weapons not making much of an impact in my experience.

Worth noting that the Vampire Chain also heals the user a small amount when hitting the enemy.

With that said, there's an argument to be made for keeping the prisoner's chain, which has a 5% KO chance that the vampire chain does not. Also, don't forget that you need to kill the Sorceress Queen to get one of the ingredients for the vampire chain (it's a set drop from the queen).

Edit: One other thing, a Dwarf Priest is always able to equip The Mauler, unless Strength has somehow been reduced (via Hex or the permanent stat loss from disease, for example).
Post edited September 10, 2021 by dtgreene
Posted September 10, 2021
Thanks. There is literally NO competition for Mace and Flail weapons, as nobody but the Priest is able to equip that weapon class. My Priest is, for better or worse, the one to hold a flank, as the Mage, Psionic, and Alchemist have no good melee options(though any of them can equip the Staff of Doom, and safely attack from a distance). I will probably go with the Diamond Eyes, and if somehow my Priest maxes Intelligence, Piety, Speed, and Senses, then I can put points into his other stats, and use the Mauler.
Posted September 13, 2021
My Priest is smacking enemies like you wouldn't believe, with his Stun Mace. My Bard and Gadgeteer are holding the flanks, with their Swords and Shields. I guess that I will have to hold the flank for a while, until I can get PL7 on level 7 skills.
Posted September 17, 2021
I have noticed that my pure casters are not keeping up with the specialists(Bard and Gadgeteer). It could be that I haven't developed them for fighting, more for magic. As far as I know, there are three tiers, in terms of fighting abilities:
Tier 1: Fighter and hybrids(Lord, Valkyrie, Ranger, Ninja, Samurai, Monk). These classes get the best weapon and armor choices.
Tier 2: Burglars(Rogue, Bard, Gadgeteer). These classes get decent weapon and armor choices, though nothing too heavy. No Polearms, Axes, Maces and Flails, and no heavy armor.
Tier 3: Pure casters(Bishop, Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, Mage). These classes get only light armor, and limited weapon selection, and no Dual Wield skill.
That would make my Bard and Gadgeteer the tanks of my party, by default. In other parties, they might only be ranged attackers with Music and Engineering.
Posted September 18, 2021
the Bard and Gadgeteer should always have at least 1 level more than anyone else which may be why you see such a difference... are any of your team under heavy load (green) as that will affect their combat skills as well
Posted September 19, 2021
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ussnorway: the Bard and Gadgeteer should always have at least 1 level more than anyone else which may be why you see such a difference... are any of your team under heavy load (green) as that will affect their combat skills as well
Nobody is encumbered at all...everybody has white encumberance. This may be due to the fact that I equipped all the light Bard specialty equipment(Mercucio's Blade, Ariel's Slippers, Oberon's Greaves, Prospero's Cloak). Also, my pure casters equipped light armor, as that's all they can wear.
I just leveled up my Bard and Gadgeteer to level 21, and my pure casters to level 20. My casters are not made for physical combat, as I maxed Speed on them for Snakespeed, and they have 95 Intelligence, ready for the Trynton Fountain +5 to Intelligence and Powercast. I've been giving them Senses and Piety, for faster Initiative and more SPs.
The Psionic is probably the best built for magic. He will have Intelligence, Piety, Speed, and Senses maxed by level 27. At that point, I can put 2 points per level into Strength, Vitality, and Dexterity, which start at 45 as a Human. The rest of the pure casters will follow with this plan.
Posted September 20, 2021
I assumed that being at level 20 was enough to cast level 6 spells at max power. Not all characters are able to do that. My Priest's Fire Magic is 83, and his Divinity is 98 + bonus = 122. Lightning can be cast at PL 6, and the 7th circle is yellow. I'm not sure what the exact formula is. On the other hand, my Mage has her Fire Magic in the 90s, and her Wizardry is 100 + bonus = 125. She can cast Firestorm at PL7 in the green.
Spells that are thrown range have a significant disadvantage, as you either have to move closer to the ranged enemies, or wait for melee enemies to charge you. In the 2nd case, you can't use spells like Lightning/Tsunami/Armormelt/etc. until round 2 or 3. This is why my Priest is lagging in his Fire realm(Lightning), and my Psionic is lagging in his Earth realm(Armormelt).
Posted September 20, 2021
It seems that there is a combination of: level, spellbook skill, and realm skill, for the ability to cast a certain spell at PL 7. As I get my level 20 casters better at their skills, they seem to reduce the power level 7 circle from yellow to yellow-green. It's almost certain that they can cast at PL7 safely the better they get. Heavy grinding is necessary for this, unless you like reloads, or backfires, or fizzles.
I just ground Arnika spawns, and both the Priest and Mage bought the Banish spellbook from Braffit, with some reloads. The casters are almost all able to cast whatever they like from level 6 and below, though I think the threshold is in the 90s for realm skills for guaranteed results. I'm not sure of this, but I will keep you posted.
Posted September 24, 2021
I'm trying to keep others posted. I just leveled up my Bard and Gadgeteer to level 22, and my pure casters to level 21.
My Alchemist has his realm skills at 88, and his Alchemy skill is at 99 + 25% bonus = 123. His Draining Cloud spell is only able to be cast at PL 6. I believe that the sweet spot for casting a spell at max power level in the green is to have your realm skills in the 90s, and to have your spellbook skill near max.
Posted September 25, 2021
And, of course, I find another interesting build.

Race: Human (this build is one that needs all the stats it can get)
Class: Bishop
Stats: Focus on STR/INT (yes, this is a STR bishop). This gets Power Cast at level 12 (reasonable) and Power Strike at 17 (late, but not too late; level 7 spells have started to appear, but not for Bishops or Hybrids yet). (Maybe put extra points in DEX? Won't get Reflextion until 25, however.)
Skills: Either Maces or Staves for a weapon. If using Staves, having good Artifacts might help if using the Staff of Doom as an item. If using Maces, Shield might be a decent choice. Otherwise, one can look at the spellbook skills.

Yes, this is a Battle Bishop, and is, perhaps, the closest you could get to a Final Fantasy Red Mage. (Well, perhaps a Hybrid/Bishop mix via class change could work if you want a bigger focus on physical combat.) What you get is the following:
* Decent physical damage (thanks to STR) and accuracy (thanks to STR, and in late game, Power Strike); doesn't get extra attacks until rather late, however.
* Ability to equip the same items as a Battle Priest (including things like The Mauler), plus at least one other (Mindblast Rod, I believe)
* Functional as a spellcaster; can learn from all spellbooks, and enemy-targeted spells remain useful late thanks to Power Cast.
* Power Cast at 12, Power Strike at 17.

Variations:
* You can get any other expert skill instead of Power Strike; I've done Snake Speed before, but you could do something like Iron Skin. If that skill is Reflextion, Eagle Eye, or Iron Will, it will actually come sooner. This will come at a cost of physical damage output, however.
* One can, of course, choose which spellbooks to focus on for this character.
* A late game class change to a primary caster gives the character faster leveling and better spells of that one school, at the expense of others. Priest allows equipment to be maintained, but is worse for magic damage. Alchemist still gets better HP than Bishop, and might be reasonable if using the Staff of Doom.
* A late game change to a fighter-type means the Infinity Helm and better weapons (maybe even Dual Wielding), but at the cost of spellcasting; even the type used by the hybrid suffers 4 levels loss (though, if not Ninja, faster leveling compensates for 1 of them).
Posted September 26, 2021
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dtgreene: And, of course, I find another interesting build.

Race: Human (this build is one that needs all the stats it can get)
Class: Bishop
Stats: Focus on STR/INT (yes, this is a STR bishop). This gets Power Cast at level 12 (reasonable) and Power Strike at 17 (late, but not too late; level 7 spells have started to appear, but not for Bishops or Hybrids yet). (Maybe put extra points in DEX? Won't get Reflextion until 25, however.)
Skills: Either Maces or Staves for a weapon. If using Staves, having good Artifacts might help if using the Staff of Doom as an item. If using Maces, Shield might be a decent choice. Otherwise, one can look at the spellbook skills.

Yes, this is a Battle Bishop, and is, perhaps, the closest you could get to a Final Fantasy Red Mage. (Well, perhaps a Hybrid/Bishop mix via class change could work if you want a bigger focus on physical combat.) What you get is the following:
* Decent physical damage (thanks to STR) and accuracy (thanks to STR, and in late game, Power Strike); doesn't get extra attacks until rather late, however.
* Ability to equip the same items as a Battle Priest (including things like The Mauler), plus at least one other (Mindblast Rod, I believe)
* Functional as a spellcaster; can learn from all spellbooks, and enemy-targeted spells remain useful late thanks to Power Cast.
* Power Cast at 12, Power Strike at 17.

Variations:
* You can get any other expert skill instead of Power Strike; I've done Snake Speed before, but you could do something like Iron Skin. If that skill is Reflextion, Eagle Eye, or Iron Will, it will actually come sooner. This will come at a cost of physical damage output, however.
* One can, of course, choose which spellbooks to focus on for this character.
* A late game class change to a primary caster gives the character faster leveling and better spells of that one school, at the expense of others. Priest allows equipment to be maintained, but is worse for magic damage. Alchemist still gets better HP than Bishop, and might be reasonable if using the Staff of Doom.
* A late game change to a fighter-type means the Infinity Helm and better weapons (maybe even Dual Wielding), but at the cost of spellcasting; even the type used by the hybrid suffers 4 levels loss (though, if not Ninja, faster leveling compensates for 1 of them).
I thought about running a Bishop again, personally. Most of the specialist casters are not making full use of every realm; Each of them seems to have a realm or two that is near useless. Bishops, with their huge spell list, make every realm worth getting to 100. I will probably save spell picks though, and rely on my Fighter and others to get me through the early part of the game until I can visit enough vendors. I really like having a Ranger along, with his instant kills and constant search ability.
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This is my favourite topic
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Wizardry seriesW8 Magic Damage Party(281 posts)(281 posts)
(281 posts)