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Wizardry seriesW8 Hybrids and Powercast(33 posts)(33 posts)
(33 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 17, 2024
I would think that I'm doing well, having kept all Friendlies alive (Myles, Vi Domina, Lord Braffit and his 3 Lay Brothers, the 2 4X Arnika Patrols (8 total). No Friendlies died upon my watch.

I don't Pickpocket any NPCs (the skill is never developed).

I would guess that would be the best way to create a "Lawful Good" party.

Well, except for the Rattkin. F them! The only good Rattkin is a dead Rattkin.
Posted May 17, 2024
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RChu1982: Well, except for the Rattkin. F them! The only good Rattkin is a dead Rattkin.
To be honest, that feels racist to me.

(I actually wish the game had a Rattkin RPC you could recruit, preferably in some class that isn't thief-like (like Lord, perhaps?).)
Posted May 18, 2024
Among all of the races, you have a Friendly start:

Brotherhood of the Ascension, Higardi, Trynnie, Mook, Umpani, T'Rang. That's six out of 10 listed races that you are friendly with, and there is no reason to change that.

The Rynjin are a native race, and are always hostile to the party. Treat them as monsters, as there is no way to be friendly with them.

The Rapax Common start out hostile to the party, but there is a quest that you can do that will make all Rapax (Rapax Common and Rapax Templar), friendly to the party.

That leaves two factions: Rattkin Common and Rattkin Razuka. The former start out Neutral to the party (won't help you out during battle). They occupy the Trynnie's Sixth Bough. They can't be made friendly to the party, only hostile, by killing the Rattkin Breeders. The latter start out friendly to the party, but are scum (no Rattkin RPCs). Rattus Rattus sets the party up for a bank robbery (might as well whack him, as you know how he disappears; I made him disappear). After that, Milano and the Don are hostile, and you can whack them separately, completely clearing out the Sixth Bough.
Posted May 18, 2024
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RChu1982: The Rynjin are a native race, and are always hostile to the party. Treat them as monsters, as there is no way to be friendly with them.
Do they exist as a faction in the game's code, or are they just treated as normal enemies by it?
Posted May 18, 2024
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dtgreene: ...
Do they exist as a faction in the game's code, or are they just treated as normal enemies by it?
The Rynjin belong to the special "Unaligned" faction
which is the only faction that does not care whether other of its members are killed by the party.
(note the term "killed", hurting e.g. an Umpani may turn them hostile on that map, or only in vision range,
but if you dont kill any Umpi and wait some days they go back to at least neutral)

Independent from faction, monsters which are by default placed on a map,
i.e. dont spawn from generator, can individually be set to friendly/neutral/hostile.
E.g. a few of the placed rynjin are neutral, and may run from the scene
if by default hostile rynjin or other hostiles start a battle with the party.
The rynjin also have a certain hostiliy radius set, at which a monster turns hostile.
On top of that there is the group membership and hierarchy of placed monsters,
a neutral assigned member among otherwise hostile group members will turn hostile,
same for neutral members subordinate to a hostile group.

Besides, imho clearly racism, already demonstrated conclusively in another thread
Post edited May 18, 2024 by townltu
Posted May 18, 2024
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townltu: The Rynjin belong to the special "Unaligned" faction
which is the only faction that does not care whether other of its members are killed by the party.
Does this faction include other enemies not usually associated with a faction, like slimes, rats, bats, ghosts, cultists, wasps, and the like?
Posted May 18, 2024
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dtgreene: ...
Does this faction include other enemies not usually associated with a faction, like slimes, rats, bats, ghosts, cultists, wasps, and the like?
Exactly, literally every entity that does not give the message ~ "your faction rating with X has decreased"
when it is killed.
Ofc unless that specific rating is already at the bottom.
Posted May 19, 2024
Caster level becomes a minor factor in the spell power equation as levels go up. The bigger problem with hybrids is casting in green. And, the opportunity cost of raising int is rather high in most parties. Two ways to use powercast warriors might be to mix them in an MDP with casters, or smaller parties. Of course, the more one stacks magical damage, the better.

The Eastern hybrids all have the potential to compare favorably to fighters in melee combat. The Western hybrids all use tricks a fighter can use just as well. (Well, a lord can do hp drain gimmicks, but have fun getting the weapons. Such a shame that Maenad's Lance didn't make it. The ranger's sword is okay, but it's not competing with a fighter.) That being said, bonuses to weapons skills are very nice.

I can't stop myself from gimmicky parties. So I ran a bishop, bard, monk, ninja, samurai, lord party up to Arnika. All beast races, all pushing sens. The warriors are "all" dual-wielding. (monk is using martial arts, actually.) The idea is to see if dw synergizes with ranged combat. (cat, dragon, dog, dragon, cat, dog) Dual-wielding is pretty good in the monastery, but Arnika Road was harder than usual. Might be a good idea to build up item casting for such a party. I should probably play some more, but extended gets strong faster, even if it's weaker in the long run. (Which it should be in most cases, especially the diamond eyes user.) DW really is best for alpha striking with only a few dual-wielders, really, and a mix could work, but four warriors don't, really, need a dual-wielder.
Post edited May 19, 2024 by ZyroMane
Posted May 19, 2024
My "racism" only exists if, say, I wanted to not serve blacks, or Jews. This doesn't translate into W8, where my hatred of Rattkin, is justified. There are literally only 3 Rattkin NPCs (Rattus Rattus, Milano, and the Don). None of these characters are good, in my opinion. They are all part of an evil Rattkin Mafia. Why would you allow the Rattkin to occupy the Trynnie's Sixth Bough? It seems to me, that I'm helping to evict squatters.

The game literally gives you a quest to whack the Rattkin Breeders (which has high rewards; Giving 2X Burning Spears, the only way to get this item). Not to mention, all those items in the Rattkin Breeder room, which will probably encumber your party. You may want to save and portal in and out here, as the rewards (and encumbrance), are significant.

This, of course, makes the (formerly Neutral), Rattkin Common faction set to Hostile. Which is good, as you can completely clean out the Sixth Bough, with no regrets. Plenty of items, experience, and skill ups.

If you took out Rattus Rattus, Milano and the Don will now be hostile. The game seems to encourage this, as well: Rattus gives nothing special, but Milano gives the Jazeraint Tunic, and the Don gives the Astral Dominae, as well as a 80% shot at the Cane of Corpus.

TLDR: The game wants you to clean out the Sixth Bough of Rattkin.
Posted May 19, 2024
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RChu1982: Giving 2X Burning Spears, the only way to get this item)
According to Flamestryke's website, there's a set location in the Mountain Wilderness.

(Then again, there's enough good easily accessible spears in the game that you don't really need the Burning Spears.)
Posted May 19, 2024
So, you're gonna let the Rattkin take over the Sixth Bough?
Posted May 19, 2024
I doubt that the Eastern Classes have the potential to overtake the Fighter and Rogue in raw melee combat; They up front are totally dominant. Granted, the hybrids have some bonuses, but they will never be as tough physically as the Fighter and Rogue.
Posted May 19, 2024
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RChu1982: So, you're gonna let the Rattkin take over the Sixth Bough?
They already did, even before you got there.

On the other hand, if you really want to, you could try exterminating the Trynnies. Of course, this actually leads to some questions:
* Can killing the wrong Trynnie too soon make the game unwinnable? (I'm thinking of the likes of Shaman Das.)
* What happens if you kill all the Trynnies from Trynton, then attempt to recruit Sparkle? (Assuming you're allied with the Umpani.)


Also, it's worth noting that much of what I'm criticizing here is the developers' portrayal of the Rattkin.
Post edited May 19, 2024 by dtgreene
Posted May 19, 2024
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dtgreene: ...
* Can killing the wrong Trynnie too soon make the game unwinnable? (I'm thinking of the likes of Shaman Das.)
* What happens if you kill all the Trynnies from Trynton, then attempt to recruit Sparkle? (Assuming you're allied with the Umpani.)
The game is designed to be winable(legit) regardless of what/whom you kill,
although e.g DS near Aletheides at CC causes certain limitation of ui controls.

Sparkle monster is Umpani faction, RPC is Trynnie,
so i assume(!) she does not complain if you kill trynnies as long she is not in party(!)
Posted May 20, 2024
The developers clearly intended for the Rattkin to be scum, part of an evil Mafia faction. Note that there are no Rattkin RPCs; While you can hire a Rapax and Robot RPC (Sexus and RFS-81, respectively).

The Robots are creations, not really a race. They are always hostile, except for RFS-81, which you can repair, and can be a good RPC.

The Rynjin are territorial, part of no listed faction, can't be made friendly to the party, and have no vendors or RPCs. However, they are native to Dominus.

The Rapax Common and Templar factions start out not Friendly to the party. With the Rapax Common, there is nothing that you can do about that for a long time (take them out in Trynton). With the Rapax Templar, the only one you will see will be Raven Rapax (part of a T'Rang quest). Squish him with the machine, so you don't set that faction to Hostile. The rub is running into the Rapax Away Camp, where they will warn you to leave. If you don't leave, you can set that faction to Hostile (unless you kill them with instant death magic, an exploit)?

If you want to be thorough, and 100% the game, make sure that you kill all of the Rapax in the Away Camp with instant death magic, so they will still be set to Neutral. Here is the rub. The Rapax King is immune to instant death magic, so you have to kill him with physical force. This will set the Rapax Templar faction to Hostile. Make sure you do this before making love to Al-Sedexus, as that will forgive all sins.

Having completely cleared out the Rapax Away Camp, you can now liberate the Rapax Queen, Drazic, and Rodan. Note that the Rapax Queen can leave, but chooses not to. Not my problem. You can save Drazic and Rodan, and portal them to their leaders.

Which leads me to the Rattkin. They are literally designed to be scum. The Rattkin Common faction is set to Neutral, no way to make them Friendly, and can only be made Hostile by killing the Breeders. So be it, slaughter them all.

Whacking that scumbag Rattus Rattus (sets you up for a bank robbery), then Milano and the Don (now Hostile), is the most satisfying way of completing the game.

Why would you want to hurt the Trynnie? They're a native race, and Burz kept me going early on.
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This is my favourite topic
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Wizardry seriesW8 Hybrids and Powercast(33 posts)(33 posts)
(33 posts)