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Wizardry and Divinity are important early, which is why my Bishop doing these schools got all the buffs, at the cost of depleting her spell points for other spells.

Alchemy is important for Body of Stone; Psionics is important for Psionic Blast (this spell is awesome).

On Novice, there is Death Wish (Divinity), Quicksand (Alchemy), and Asphyxiation (Wizardry), for kill-all spells.

For hit-all spells, there is Nuclear Blast (Wizardry), Earthquake (Alchemy), Falling Stars (Divinity, but inferior to above), and Mind Flay (Psionics).
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RChu1982: Alchemy is important for Body of Stone
I haven't really found that spell to be that important. HP damage is not usually a severe problem, and if you actually have a low HP character who could be threatened by it, Guardian Angel works rather well. Also, due to the way the math works out, Body of Stone, with its percentage damage reduction, needs to be used at a higher power level to have a significant effect.

Also, it's often the case, in this game, that it's better to heal damage than to prevent it. This is particularly true if you have access to Heal All via spell, or even better, via instrument/gadget. (Note that this does not apply to status ailments; being affected by a status ailment means you are likely to miss at least one turn, and status cures are all single target, while the spells that protect against them target the entire party.)

(With that said, note that Body of Stone will make Guardian Angel last longer, since it reduces the damage the GA takes.)
Iron Will does nothing special, other than raise resistances. There is nothing that IW does that can't be covered by Element/Soul Shield.

Low HP characters should probably be protected in the center formation, as I did with my Human Bishops (they won't suffer melee attacks, at least, though they may be hit by ranged attacks.

I disagree. With a power level 7 Magic Screen, most (non caster) battles should wind up with the party not suffering too many status ailments. Obviously, against casters, Element/Soul Shield would be cast, giving your party 100 resist all.

This is where I am going with Body of Stone/Guardian Angel/Bless, etc. Somebody needs to be protecting the fragile Bishops in the center formation. By casting Guardian Angel and Body of Stone at the Fighter up front, for example, he will be able to tank the level 21 Savant Slashers, suffering minimal damage, if any at all, due to how BoS works with GA. Firstly, he will rarely be hit, due to very high AC. If he IS hit, the 70% DR kicks in, prolonging the duration of GA, while suffering no status effects until GA wears off.
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RChu1982: Iron Will does nothing special, other than raise resistances. There is nothing that IW does that can't be covered by Element/Soul Shield.
Being the devil's advocate, here are some things that Iron Will covers that Element/Soul Shield does not:
* First round of combat, before the ES/SS caster gets to act. You haven't yet had a chance to put up the spell, so you're still vulnerable.
* Similarly, if your party is surprised due to being attacked while searching, or being attacked while sleeping. (In the latter case, your ES/SS character might still be asleep.)
* Damage taken outside of combat. For example, if you step on certain spots in the Swamp, your party gets hit with a Noxious Fumes effect. Since ES/SS are only usable during battle, you can't benefit from either spell in this situation.
* Similarly, chest traps. There are traps that can cause instant death or draining, or even less severe effects like poison; ES/SS will not provide any protection against these effects. because you can't cast them outside of battle.

(Also, I'm thinking of, as perhaps a self-imposed restriction, not using those two spells.)

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RChu1982: By casting Guardian Angel and Body of Stone at the Fighter up front, for example, he will be able to tank the level 21 Savant Slashers, suffering minimal damage, if any at all, due to how BoS works with GA. Firstly, he will rarely be hit, due to very high AC. If he IS hit, the 70% DR kicks in, prolonging the duration of GA, while suffering no status effects until GA wears off.
But the Fighter really doesn't need all those defenses, and if you *are* using ES/SS, status ailments from enemy attacks will be rare unless you're playing on Expert or are massively underleveled. Furthermore, by casting BoS and GA, you're spending resources that might not end up having to be spent; by instead healing after the fact, you avoid using those resources unless you end up needing them.

Also, keep in mind that the enemies might just choose to target other front line characters instead. There's also enemies that can hit at extended range, like the Rynjin, and if you go into short range, now characters in the center of the formation are now vulnerable.
Post edited February 15, 2024 by dtgreene
First round of combat, my Snakespeed Bishops are already casting Element Shield and Soul Shield.

I have a Ranger, so no risk of being surprised while searching, and I don't sleep out in the open (I don't think I've ever used Shadow Hound).

You *can* reload if stepping on the wrong spot in the Swamp causes party member to fall unconscious/become nausiated before a battle, but if it's just that (without a battle looming), you can heal/rejuvenate party members back to full (and maybe work on skills).

Traps are one of the things that can easily be reloaded if you don't like the results. Incidentally, skills like Locks and Traps, Artifacts, Communication, and Scouting are extremely hard to max, and I give credit if a player gets them to 75 skill (the max level that a skill can get from level up points). All other skills than these 4, there is no excuse not to max.

By healing after the fact that the Fighter has already suffered damage, he might already be paralyzed, with half of his hit points gone from X2 damage from the Slashers.

The point is to create a setup, in front of the Arnika Tower, where all 6 characters can hit the Savant Slashers (Fighter and Rogue up front, dual-wielding, Valkyrie and Ranger hitting from the flanks with extended-range Polearms, and center-formation Bishops hitting from extended range with Quarterstaves). This allows all 6 characters to train their melee skills, but needs the Fighter with BoS and GA.

This is why you don't charge Rynjin, or level 22 Savant Minion: They can hit from extended range, and if you melee them, can hit your center formation characters.
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RChu1982: First round of combat, my Snakespeed Bishops are already casting Element Shield and Soul Shield.
When they could be blasting, or casting Guardian Angel/Body of Stone, or casting Haste/Superman (if those spells aren't covered by Bard/Gadgeteer). There is a tradeoff here.

(No, you don't need those spells every battle. Certainly they're useful (I think they might be *too* powerful, to be honest, and it's obnoxious when enemies use them), but not every battle calls for them.)
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RChu1982: Incidentally, skills like Locks and Traps, Artifacts, Communication, and Scouting are extremely hard to max, and I give credit if a player gets them to 75 skill (the max level that a skill can get from level up points).
You can raise Artifacts further by:
* Identifying Renewal Potions without spells. The required Artifacts skill is greater than 75, and you can get 18 more than the minimum th8is way,
* Using items that cast spells. The Amulet of Healing casts a fairly high level spell at a high power level (I think you need 81 for it to be reliable), and can be recharged, not to mention that it's one of the most powerful buyable items in the game, *and* it has 2 guaranteed locations, both mid-game. (I consider late game to start with Bayjin and the Rapax Rift, though I'd also put the Mountain Wilderness, with its level 11 minimum if you don't want unreasonably high level spawns there, to also be late game.)
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RChu1982: By healing after the fact that the Fighter has already suffered damage, he might already be paralyzed, with half of his hit points gone from X2 damage from the Slashers.
If you have Restoration at a decent power level, one cast will fix all that.

Failing that, with decent Water resistance, which many races get, Paralysis shouldn't happen too often, and you can heal ~70 HP with Heal Wounds PL7 even without Power Cast. Or you could use Guardian Angel, which unlike Body of Stone, actually works well when the character is already injured.
Post edited February 16, 2024 by dtgreene
Haste is unnecessary, due to everybody in the party working on Speed and Senses. This is a waste of a combat round, and it doesn't work underwater. I've never used Superman before, however, I hear that it can mess up your character, as Haste and Superman together can cause integer overflow, causing your character to have very low Speed. I would rather be naturally tough, not needing either spell.

I only cast Element and Soul Shields against enemy casters; Against non-casters, power level 7 Magic Screen seems to be enough (it gives Humans, with a base of 25 resist all, +35 resist all, giving them 60 resist all). However, against enemies like level 22 Savant Minion (who can hit from extended range, and hit anybody in the party with their ranged attacks), it might be smart to cast Element and Soul Shield, as status ailments are bad.

The Amulet of Healing is guaranteed in the Mine Tunnels, in the lake. The rest are buyable by Crock. If your characters are not Bards/Gadgeteers (with their special items, the Ring of the Road, and Tinker's Carryall Bracers, +20 to Strength), then it is wise to get 2 Amulets of Healing per character. This is essential (not a luxury), if your casters want Staves of Doom (farmable from Rapax Corpses). The SOD is cursed, and causes a -1 HP penalty upon your characters, so you need an Amulet of Healing to counteract this, and a second one would cause a +1 HP regeneration.

Body of Stone with Guardian Angel (and Bless, which lasts around 20 rounds), seems to work well (I'm a veteran here). When one wears off (usually BoS first), since its duration is shorter, simply recast.
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RChu1982: If your characters are not Bards/Gadgeteers (with their special items, the Ring of the Road, and Tinker's Carryall Bracers, +20 to Strength), then it is wise to get 2 Amulets of Healing per character. This is essential (not a luxury), if your casters want Staves of Doom (farmable from Rapax Corpses). The SOD is cursed, and causes a -1 HP penalty upon your characters, so you need an Amulet of Healing to counteract this, and a second one would cause a +1 HP regeneration.
But I may want to equip different accessories, like:
* Something to boost some stat, like an Ankh of Strength or Speed
* A Ring Pro Magic, to add some resistancse
* (With Bela modded to sell them) A Ring of Power, for the SP regen
* The Amulet of Nebdar, for the Power Cast boost and other beneifts
* An Amulet of Life, because I want cheap resurrection and don't yet have the spell (or this character can't learn it)

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RChu1982: Body of Stone with Guardian Angel (and Bless, which lasts around 20 rounds), seems to work well (I'm a veteran here). When one wears off (usually BoS first), since its duration is shorter, simply recast.
Recasting isn't always possible. There could be status ailments floating around, something else (like an active Death Cloud) might be higher prioirity, or you might simply be out of SP.
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RChu1982: The SOD is cursed, and causes a -1 HP penalty upon your characters, so you need an Amulet of Healing to counteract this, and a second one would cause a +1 HP regeneration.
There's other ways to counteract this:
* Robe of Rejuvenation, wearable by most characters, gives +1 HP regen.
* Infinity Helm gives +2 HP regen. Only some classes can equip it, but believe it or not, the Staff of Doom is so strong it's still a good option for these classes.
* Other accessories give +1 HP regen, like the Medicine Bag, for example.
* The Lord class gets innate HP regen, and therefore doesn't need anything to counter the Staff of Doom's HP drain.
* Or, of course, you could just heal manually. This can get annoying (though it's good for raising skills), but it is an option. Note that, during battle, Guardian Angel will intercept HP drain.
Post edited February 17, 2024 by dtgreene
For a power player like me, the best the party can strive for is to have my non-Bard/Gadgeteer party get 2 Amulets of Healing for each character, everybody has the Cloak of Many Colors in their Cloak slot, and the best armor that they can reasonably carry, without being encumbered. To this end, every character will max Strength, and will make sure Vitality is decent once maxing their first four attributes.

I'm talking about Arnika battles here, where you have the luxury of four vendors, no enemy spellcasters, and plenty of places to hide from enemies, and rest. With the high experience of level 21 Savant Slashers and level 22 Savant Minion, you could reasonably get to level 25 just by hanging around, and hit the Trynton Fountain for the +5 to Intelligence.

Robes of Rejuvenation are only good for casters, who have terrible armor selection. Even then, the Flak Jacket, sold by Kunar, is objectively better (+9 AC to all but the Psionic, Mage, Ninja, and Monk).

The Staff of Doom is strong, but not so strong that it wouldn't be outdone by a Fighter/Rogue dual-wielding. There are some good Polearms that would be better for a hybrid, like the Valkyrie/Ranger, without suffering from being cursed.
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RChu1982: Robes of Rejuvenation are only good for casters, who have terrible armor selection. Even then, the Flak Jacket, sold by Kunar, is objectively better (+9 AC to all but the Psionic, Mage, Ninja, and Monk).
Disagree:
* There's no other armor that provides the same regen properties, particularly the SP regen. This, in particular, is important if your Elf is wearing a Fey Ring, a rather nice accessory that's cursed with negative stamina regen. Or, for a bard/gadgeteer, it frees up an accessory stlot.
* Also, it's light weight, which is useful if you're trying to control encumbrance.
* AC is really not that important later on, as enemy physical attacks are not usually that much of a threat. With the HP you get from higher levels and the Armorplate spell, you shouldn't have trouble, and if you do, there's Amulets of Healing.
* The Flak Jacket is definitely not objectively better than the RoR; in fact, it's worse in every regard except for AC.

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RChu1982: The Staff of Doom is strong, but not so strong that it wouldn't be outdone by a Fighter/Rogue dual-wielding. There are some good Polearms that would be better for a hybrid, like the Valkyrie/Ranger, without suffering from being cursed.
So, Staff of Doom averages 17 damage at 50 STR, and has 25% paralyze and 15% kill. Plus, +4 to hit and +1 initiative on top of that.
* You are not going to find a kill chance that high on a polearm. Lance has a low kill chance, and others don't kill at all.
* Stun Rod is only 16 average damage, and 20% Paralyze. Also, 18 weight and -6 initiative. (It's still one of my favorite weapons.)
* Dread Spear matches the SoD in damage (17), but the only status it afflicts is Hex.
* Mindblast Rod, as a weapon, is only 15.5 average damage with 20% paralyze and 5% ko, plus using it as a weapon needs awkward builds to work. Also, -6 init and 18 weight.
* For comparison, the Giant's Sword averages 21 damage, 30% KO, grants +5 strength, has only -2 initiative, but weighs 35.
Post edited February 18, 2024 by dtgreene
It's a moot point for my party. The Fighter and Valkyrie are going to get the godly armor sold by Ferro. The Rogue and Ranger will probably wear the Flak Jacket, as they don't care about SP regeneration, and would rather have the higher AC to the upper body (the area most likely to be targeted). The Bishops might wear Robes of Rejuvenation, but by the point of reaching Ferro, will have every level 1-5 spell, and most, if not all, of the good level 6 and 7 spells. Thus, they will not need Piety, or SP regeneration.

The Fighter has the Berserk attack option (2X damage), as well as the ability to KO enemies with any weapon, melee or ranged. Therefore, it would be smart to capitalize on this advantage, and dual wield. The best outcome is a *Light Sword* and Diamond Eyes.

Similarly, the Rogue should dual wield, to take maximum advantage of Backstabbing (1-4X damage, though random). The best case would be *Light Sword* and Stiletto (if wanting to remain uncursed).

In both cases, dual-wielding is better than a single, extended-ranged weapon.
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RChu1982: The Fighter has the Berserk attack option (2X damage), as well as the ability to KO enemies with any weapon, melee or ranged. Therefore, it would be smart to capitalize on this advantage, and dual wield. The best outcome is a *Light Sword* and Diamond Eyes.
Not Throwing Stilettos and Poison Darts? You can dual wield them, get the KO effects, and Throwing Stilettos can also instant kill, plus you can do so at range.

(There's one practical issue; Ammo might be a bit scarce.)

Or, there's the Tripleshot Crossbow, though without a Gadgeteer in your main party, it may be a bit annoying to get. (Recruit Madras, train his Engineering up to 70, then have him make the Tripleshot Crossbow; after that, you can dismiss him.) It's not dual wielding, but it does give you a lot of extra attacks.

Unfortunately, you can't berserk with either of these weapon options, but fortunately you can set your attack to Berserk once and it will automatically switch when your weapons change.
I missed the raw brute force of the Fighter and Rogue when I had my last party, where the Bard and Gadgeteer were the toughest characters (at least they got *Light Swords*, as these two classes are mediocre at everything). However, they level up fast, and cover most bases, should the need arrive.

Yes, ammo is a practical issue. I find that Dual Wielding can be raised in tandem with other skills. In particular, I like to set up for melee battles, where 6 skills can be worked on at once: Close Combat, Dual Weapons, Sword, Mace and Flail, Powerstrike, and Reflextion.
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RChu1982: I missed the raw brute force of the Fighter and Rogue when I had my last party, where the Bard and Gadgeteer were the toughest characters (at least they got *Light Swords*, as these two classes are mediocre at everything). However, they level up fast, and cover most bases, should the need arrive.

Yes, ammo is a practical issue. I find that Dual Wielding can be raised in tandem with other skills. In particular, I like to set up for melee battles, where 6 skills can be worked on at once: Close Combat, Dual Weapons, Sword, Mace and Flail, Powerstrike, and Reflextion.
I've found that, whenever I'd use a Fighter, the brute strength is appreciated early on (though the misses are not), but later on it just feels like too much, and the Fighter is just killing enemies too fast, and boss-type enemies, in particular, don't get a chance to show off what they can do. Hence why I prefer hybrids or battle priests; they don't kill enemies too fast.

Rogue may have the same problem, plus I don't like the mechanics of the Stealth skill.
The Stealth skill on my Rogue (maxed by now), plus Reflextion expert skill, gives him the best AC of the party. However, it doesn't give total immunity to attacks; I have had my Rogue attacked multiple times, which is why both the Fighter and Rogue need to be protected by Guardian Angel, if fighting in "perfect" conditions, where the enemy is funneled into only being able to hit the front line.

I'm sure that the Fighter and Rogue's abilities can be appreciated in several battles, particularly against bosses almost completely immune to magic, no matter how high your relative level is (that is, if you severely outlevel them). Of the top of my head, they would be: Nessie, El-Dorado, Rapax King (immune to Instant Death effects), Pee Wee (optional, but who wants to chicken-$h!t out of a boss battle?), Savant Behemoth (who wants to disarm the bomb, then teleport out?), and, of course, the Dark Savant himself. If you want to consider yourself a true W8 player, than you would fight these bosses honorably.