I've heard damage is so high in Guild Wars 2, that skipping phases is common for some bosses. That is also the game where every class is a DD with self heals, mitigation, and crowd control abilities. They added other roles with specializations in the expansions, so one either uses the insta-leveling item, or is forced to be a DD while leveling. Fun.

I also enjoy math history. It's amazing the backlash towards newfangled ideas. Mathematicians were like Scientists in that regard. Meh, the ivory towers marches on. I love the reaction to the proof of the equivalency of the axiom of choice ad the well-ordering principle. My brother told me I should the novelization of Galois after I mentioned that I'd read one. Which is somewhat comical, since Abstract Algebra was my worst subject.

Flashy? Where did that come from? I don't get the connection. Dual-wielding is often seen as flashy. I remember that I was obsessed with it in my edgy teen phase. (I wouldn't mind more gun-fu in games, now that we are on the discussion of flashy.)

I like unbalanced things myself, or rather min-maxed—no weaknesses, no fun. But this game is better with a bishop. Or at least a mage and a priest. I've messed around with multi-fighter parties recently, but haven't got far with them. I think the problem is I'm too lazy for this game. Maybe that's not the right term. Two divinity casters makes the game smoother too, that's why I tried the bishop, ninja, valk, three fighters party. I'm sure that's not the optimal "easy" party, but it is strong in early-game—heh.

It's probably part of my "nuerodiversity", but I've often found casters stronger, and thus, easier when I was young, and my "disdain" for them comes from my personality flaw in seeking out weaker play-styles and forcing them to work. Should be an easy thing to fix, but what do I know? (And, then they are games like Hexen.) Although, I've grown quite fond of heavy armor and high strength. The only reason I fell down the tank rabbit-hole is because I like Orisa and fond her adorable. The play-style was nice too. And then they released Wrecking Ball.

I do like summoning hordes of critters, but—like traps—summons are often heavily restricted because muh balanaise. I should do more of that. But instead of playing interesting games, I'm over here replaying borderlands again, but this time as Brick instead of Mordecai. Well, I may have my preferences, but I'm an "explorer" at heart, so I might never stop trying new play-styles, till I get too old/die.

Yeah, I need to stop being weird about it, and just find what's "fun." So, I need to focus on play-style more, and find what play-styles I dislike. But, being too powerful is annoying. I mean, games where it's quite easy to become nigh invincible, or wipe a room of monsters quick, aren't that fun. That ruined my impression of games like Arena, Fable, and Fallout 4. There's a balance there somewhere. And, why I like the set-up play-styles, I'm often too lazy to do it all the time. ...I think it's about time I try a charisma run of Arcanum.

One of my favorite bits of math history is when someone tried to prove the Parallel Postulate by contradiction. Basically, he assumed that postulate to be false, then proved various theorems (you can, for example, prove that similar triangles are always congruent, or that the angles of a non-degenerate triangle must not sum to 180 degrees) until he found one that was "repungent" to geometry and the nature of the world. (Turns out, he had just discovered non-Euclidean geometry, only to reject it!)

I also happen to really like the proof of the first Godel incompleteness theorem, as well as Turing's proof that the halting problem has no solution (the latter is a particularly nice proof because it's rather easy to explain).

I've thought about (and even posted about in the appropriate subforum, only to get no response) what it would be like to play Bard's Tale 2 using only 1 caster and a bunch of summons. Maybe I should try that sometime? (Note that this specifically works only for 2; 1 only has a single slot that monsters are allowed to fill (unless playing the remaster), while 3 requires multiple characters of specific classes for game progression, so you can't do it with just 1 regular party member.)
In Wizardry 8, what I'd consider flashy, and which I think is rather satisfying, is when your MDP has been pelting a large group of enemies with spells, then all of the sudden a whole bunch of them die at once.

(Incidentally, my CRPG is going to have guns, as well as heavy artillery weapons like rocket launchers, flamethrowers, and possibly even nukes; this is in addition to having powerful offensive magic.)

Great math talk there.

BT2 single character with summons sounds like an interesting playthrough. It's fun to do things that are uncommon or even singular. That's why bards and gadgeteers are so cool. A shame I just don't gel with the playstyle. I do like the follower of Beogh playstyle in Crawl. Hmm, seems like the devs are going to nerf the amount of followers. Makes sense as summon spells have caps now. No more spammals.

I would completely agree that MDP final blows are flashy—and spectacular. The death screams really cement it as goat.

I do like guns—my favorite game is Doom II: Hell on Earth, after all—but I've found that I like melee even betterer. I love the fighter in Hexen. It's amazing how many cRPGs have weak guns, or—worse—how many have strong melee despite a focus on guns. Speaking of Doom, Jupiter Hell apparently has strong melee, but guns are much, much better for most of a run. I've been told, haven't played it much. But, I can name a few games where physical ranged is superior to close combat. One where melee is awful until mid-game: Divinity II. Well, I only know the early-game of that one, never made it that far. But I feel like Baldur's Gate and Dragon's Dogma have super archery to melee, but I lack confidence in that. Also, playing punch-out with pants-wearing agitated skeletons is very fun. But, so is playing rocketeer with skull-spitting meatballs. Add some red balls of fury and it's like Christmas. Do I love tempting Lady Luck? Perchance.

I like the rock/paper/scissors approach of W8, that keeps you coming around:

Melee: Has the advantage of the best single-target damage (essential against bosses), with the drawback that you must move into melee range, sometimes wasting combat rounds.

Ranged: Has the advantage that you can hit any enemy in Long Range or shorter, without the restrictions of magic resistance. Has a drawback that you must carry around ammo, sometimes encumbering the party.

Magic: Has the advantage of AoE (Area of Effect), potentially damaging or killing many enemies within the radius. The drawback is enemy resistance, especially if the enemy is the same level (or higher), than you. Almost useless on Ascension Peak, if above level 30 or so.

I'd prefer to give Burz some other Restore Magic item, like Golden Apples (I *think* that's the item I'm thinking of?).

As for level 7 spells at PL7, I think the changes would be to make the skill bonus rings a bit more accessible, and perhaps to reduce the base cost of Restoration to 15, which would be just enough for a max skill Priest to use it reliably at PL7.
For my CRPG, I'm thinking that guns will exist, but not be the main focus. (I'm thinking I'll intentionally have magic dominate to some degree.) The balance here is that guns don't rely on your stats, allowing a character with poor stats to be effective, while melee weapons are weak unless you've increased the accuracy and damage stats (which, for my CRPG, will be the same stat except for certain exotic weapons that have more power potential). So, if a player sneaks into an advanced area early and manages to get some powerful equipment, it is the guns and other modern/futuristic weapons that will be most useful, at least until stats have been built up a fair amount.


Or, in Sranger of Sword City Revisited, the Clocker and Puppeteer classes that were added in Revisited. There's an interesting contrast to be made between these classes: Clocker abilities work *really* well with abilities from other classes, making class changing extremely profitable here, while Puppeteer skills are really good, but don't really interact with skills from other classes.

RChu1982, don't forget mobs that casts defensive spells like missile shield. But, yeah, that's the essence of the game's balance.

Yeah, those realm bonus rings being so rare is frustrating. They are rather cool.

Grimrock II has the problem that guns don't scale with stats. Since it's damage scaling combined with the spongy monsters, that's a big deal. Add on to that rare unrecoverable ammo, and it leads to why build up the skill just to maybe use the hand cannon later in the game, with how rare and valuable skill points are. But that game has horrible balance. Now, Wiz8 also has guns that don't scale, but the issue is that they are just weak. Sure, blunderbuss could be useful, but why not build strength on the classes that can use it? Actually, there are viable builds there. I mean, maybe a int/sen ranger, or even lord/valk. Hmm, I've never really though about it, and now I'm realizing it's not the worst thing. It's just sub-optimal.

I think I'll go for some sort of bishop and fighter along side one hybrid of each school of magic. But I should try some "fun" builds, like ranged only ninja. Might even try a faerie fighter. I'll need to think about this.

I think I like the way SaGa 2 handles this. Guns don't scale with stats, but are strong enough that it's not a big issue. You can buy an SMG in the first world (although it's expensive), and it will still kill everything in the first two worlds, and still be quite good for another two. There's also the issue with stat growth being slow, making guns often a better option than the alternatives. By race:
* Human: Poor stat growth for most of the game means that melee and magic will be on the weak side for most of the game. Guns don't have this issue, though they have the drawbacks of being expensive (you can't make do with a low-tier gun later in the game) and that using them doesn't give any chance of a stat increase.
* Espers: Like humans, but stat growth is even slower. (On the other hand, espers get magic skills that recover at the inn for free, making the cost of guns feel even more significant.)
* Robots: To get a stat up high enough to be useful, you need to equip multiple items that boost the same stat, and you only get 7 equipment stats. Here, guns have the advantage that you only need to spend one slot, and you have a rather nice attack that could even be one that hits an entire group (something melee doesn't typically allow). Recovering half the uses at the inn means you don't need to spend money except when it's time to upgrade to a better weapon (and, later on, you can rely on found weapons just fine). Keep in mind that magic isn't a viable option in the original, and in the remake requires separate items for the stats and the actual spells.
* Monster: Monsters don't use equipment, so the choice diesn't appear here.

(Incidentally, going back to Wizardry 8, modern weapons would be more interesting if they had some useful area attacks. Make the Rocket Launcher and Flamethrower actual good weapons, and add a few more of that sort of weapon, and suddenly modern weapons acquire a niche that is otherwise only filled by magic.)

What you're talking about are Rapax: Casting spells that make the party's life difficult (unlike the Rattkin, who are scum, who only fight in melee and range, thankfully). If you're high enough level (30+), entering the Rapax Rift, these Rapax spells shouldn't bother you, and you can cast your "kill all" spells with impunity.

Regarding Modern Weapons: They don't benefit from the Strength damage bonus, that Bows/Crossbows get (same skill), or Slings (this is the best that casters can equip). The Gadgeteer starts with an Omnigun, but Blinding effects get very annoying (not only do enemies run away, prolonging the battle, but you feel that you get robbed of experience points from enemies that ran away). A Gadgeteer should craft Tripleshot Crossbows, as they are guaranteed +2 "swings" per attack; Normally, it would be 1-3, modified, it would be 3-5 swings per attack, while benefitting from the Strength damage bonus.

Or penalty.

They can be useful if you're ignoring Strength on a class that can equip them.

(Whips can also be useful because they ignore half the Strength penalty.)

If you're going the route of casters, the Staff of Doom dominates other weapons, hands down (Strength worked on or not).

Unless:
* Somebody else is using that Staff of Doom. (Farming them isn't practical for most players, particularly since there's no respawning sources of them to my knowledge.)
* You have The Mauler and are able to equip it. That weapon does more damage than the SoD, and it only uses up one hand, leaving the other free for a shield. (Also note that Crush as item could come in handy if you don't have any long-range attack spells, a situation that could easily happen if you reach Ferro before level 18.)
* You want to use a shield. Shields provide extra AC and stat bonuses, and when you're not making physical attacks (for example, you're casting), shields are better than anything the Staff of Doom could passively do.
* You want to have a ranged weapon available, as the Staff of Doom is cursed.
* You can't find a good place to work in some HP regen. For example, Fairy alchemist with Geomancer's and Aeromancer's rings (to cast level 7 spells reliably at PL7); no room for an Amulet of Healing, and no Robes of Rejuvenation.

Yes, there was room for more interesting modern weapons, but it's just a ranged option for characters not building strength. Worse, then, that the blunderbuss can only be used by four classes.

AC becomes less important as the game goes on. That being said, yeah the shield AC is nice when not having reflextion, which is likely on a speed caster, for example. Now, on the stats, aren't they spd, dex, and int? The int one being harder to find, but its artifacts boost can be useful, which is good because stat bonuses don't affect learning. Int bonuses, therefore, only really increasing a mental bonuses and granting a very minor AR bump—unless I'm forgetting something. The other two stats are better, but all three shields are useful.

I had my last MDP as all Humans (to max out on stat sums):

Bard, Gadgeteer, Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, Mage.

Bard and Gadgeteer: Light Swords and Light Shields, Tripleshot Crossbows, the best 8 Instruments and Gadgets that you can get.

Priest: Vampire Chain and Light Shield, Wrist Rocket, Divinity spellbook enhanced by PowerCast.

Alchemist/Psionic/Mage: 3X Staves of Doom, 3X Wrist Rockets, Alchemy/Psionics/Wizardry spellbooks enhanced by Powercast.

Looking back, the Priest didn't max Strength, so no Powerstrike. Also, worse damage with the Vampire Chain, than he could have had with the Staff of Doom. Better defense, though, with the Light Shield.

Sorry, got too far into my past party. Regarding casters, I did Intelligence/Piety/Speed/Senses last time (as it was a MDP). This time around, though, I'm going for battle-Bishops (max Strength/Intelligence/Speed/Senses). This way, they will get Powerstrike, Powercast, Snakespeed, and Eagle Eye, making them decent at all forms of combat.