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Level 16:
Priest: Resurrection
Alchemist: Quicksand
Psionic: Turncoat
Mage: Dehydrate
The Bard has maxed Strength for Powerstrike and Dexterity for Reflextion. The Gadgeteer has only maxed Dexterity for Reflextion and has Strength at 99. The four casters have maxed Speed for Snake Speed and have Intelligence at 95, waiting for that +5 to Intelligence in Trynton at the fountain.
In terms of hits, all the casters are hitting for a possible 2 hits per swing/2 attacks per round, similar to the Bard and Gadgeteer.
but is the game fun or is this party so much effort that its more like work?

I know you enjoy it ;)
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ussnorway: but is the game fun or is this party so much effort that its more like work?

I know you enjoy it ;)
I remember doing an MDP many years ago (though I remember having at least one Bishop), and I think it may have been the most fun party I played.

Then again, I left the Monastery at level 5 and explored the game at a reasonable pace, rather than farming XP in the Monastery until level 20+ as RChu1982 seems to be doing.
It's very fun. I look forward to grinding skills and gaining experience as soon as I get off work. The MDP is quite possibly the most powerful party in existence, once certain thresholds have been met. Such as the ability to actually replenish SPs, Speed maxed and Snake Speed unlocked so you go first, a reasonable Senses attribute (Senses contributes to Initiative just as much as Speed does), enough SPs for a few good battles (working on Piety as the 4th most important attribute behind Speed, Intelligence, and Senses), and a decent few backup skills for melee and ranged physical damage.
The Bard and Gadgeteer are doing Close Combat, Sword and Shield skills for melee, and are positioned in the front and left quadrants, respectively. The Priest is doing Close Combat, Mace&Flail, and Shield skills, and he is in the right quadrant. The Alchemist is positioned in the center quadrant, along with the weakling Psionic and Mage, and they are all protected from melee attacks. The Alchemist is using an extended range, two-handed Quarter Staff to train for the Staff of Doom (using the Close Combat and Staff and Wand skills). The Psionic and Mage are not going to be using any melee weapons, as the SoD is taken, and there are no more good extended weapons that they can use, not to mention their poor armor choices, poor weapon choices, lack of HPs, and lack of a shield option make for very squishy characters.
The Bard and Gadgeteer are doing Ranged Combat and Bow skills for range (Long Bow for the Bard, Doubleshot Crossbow for the Gadgeteer). The other 4 casters are using Slings and Bullet Stones, and occasionally Throwing Darts, for range (using the Ranged Combat and Throwing and Sling skills).
For magic, the Bard is using her Angel's Tongue instrument (free Bless Round 1). The Gadgeteer is similarly using her Lightning Rod (free Energy Blast Round 1). These slowly increase Music and Engineering (they are both in the 90s). The casters are trying to use a variety of realms, so that each one is at a decent level. Obviously, there are extremes, such as the Priest's Divine Realm dominance, and the Psionic's Mental Realm dominance, but I have been trying to keep them somewhat balanced. The Mage's realms are all in the 90s, the Alchemist and Priests's realms are in the upper 80s, and the Psionic's realms in the upper 70s.
In terms of utility, the Gadgeteer is working on Locks and Traps, and is in the 60s in skill level. All 6 characters have maxed Mythology (easy to do after fighting so many enemies). The Bard is working on Communication (she is the only one with a 25% bonus to it, and is in the high 50s). Artifacts is something everybody should work on, but the Mage is the one with the highest skill level (it's only in the 50s, I will probably need to use Mana Stones to bring it up).
It's actually something to look forward to every shift at work, making my MDP more and more powerful, so that I can dominate the dreaded Arnika Road stretch, and the rest of the game.
Level 17:
Priest: Soul Shield
Alchemist: Resurrection
Psionic: Chameleon
Mage: Light
This is the last level up before level 7 spells start appearing at level 18. This is also the point that level 5 spells and below can be cast at power level 7 with 100% success. Level 6 spells can be safely cast at power level 4.
The Bard and Gadgeteer have both maxed Strength for Powerstrike and Dexterity for Reflextion. The four casters have maxed Speed for Snakespeed, and are at 95 Intelligence, waiting for the +5 fountain from Trynton for Powercast.
To DTGreene: The Light for the Mage was to increase SPs in the fire realm, and the Chameleon for the Psionic was to increase SPs in the earth realm.
Edit: The main magic skills are pretty easy to train, when there is only one skill involved. The Mage's Wizardry is at 100, 125 with the skill bonus (easy to do when Intelligence is the only controlling attribute, at 95). The Alchemist's Alchemy is at 99, 123 with the skill bonus (Dexterity being at base makes it harder, it's only at 60, but mixing potions helps to bring it up). The Psionic's Psionics is at 98, 122 with the skill bonus (Senses being at 71 is helping). The Priest's Divinity is at 97, 121 with the skill bonus (Piety, the only controlling attribute, is mediocre at 65, so it's tough to get the last few skill ups). The Gadgeteer's Engineering and Bard's Music are in the low 90s (Dexterity is maxed for both of them, but their Intelligence is only at base, so that brings down skill ups, not to mention they are using level 1 Energy Blast and Bless spells).
Double Edit: I was able to handle 2 level 14 Flesheater Slimes, though they never attacked, only attempted to melee me. I guess I was lucky on that encounter. Even still, with my fire magic, I would have wasted them.
Post edited February 27, 2022 by RChu1982
Level 18:
Priest: Restoration
Alchemist: Death Cloud
Psionic: Mind Flay
Mage: Concussion
I finally got the first of three spell picks on level 7 spells, even though they will only be able to be cast at power level 1 safely. It took over a month to level, which is because I was using so many Bullet Stones that Burz almost ran out. With 3 casters using the Slings that are guaranteed (one from Bard creation, 2 from Lower Monastery set items), you run out quickly.
I switched to extreme magic levelling, defending most of the time, using magic realms which may or may not be useful.
Since I'm so high level, the Lower and Upper Monastery spawns are random. I used "useless" spells against trash mobs for magic realm training, and "good" spells against threats to my party.
Bard and Gadgeteer: 95 Music/Engineering
Priest and Psionic: 99 natural, 123 enhanced Divinity/Psionics
Alchemist and Mage: 100 natural, 125 enhanced Alchemy/Wizardry
All realms are being trained. The Mage is 97+, the Alchemist is 96+, The Priest is 95+ (except for Mental Magic, which is at 5, which will be trained in Arnika with Identify Item), and the Psionic is at 94+ (difficult, with his/her realms being so scattered).
As for ranged combat, both the Bard and Gadgeteer are doing well with their Ranged Combat/Bow skills. I try to make sure to rotate the 3 slings for the 4 casters so that each gets a decent Ranged Combat/Throwing and Sling skill increase.
As for melee combat, the physically weak Psionic and Mage are out. No Dual Weapons skill, no Shield skill, poor armor choices, poor hit points, and poor weapon choices (am I supposed to melee with a dagger, wand, or short staff without any protection?)
The Alchemist at least gets a Shield skill, but he/she would have to use a dagger/shield, wand/shield, or short staff/shield, due to lack of Dual Weapons skill. None of these options, IMO, justify going into melee range. The Alchemist is the toughest between him/herself, the Psionic, and the Mage, so he/she gets the Quarterstaff to train for the eventual Staff of Doom, hitting from the back lines safely.
The Priest is the only one with the Mace and Flail skill, so obviously he/she uses that, plus a shield, due to lack of Dual Weapons skill. There are plenty of good weapons that use this skill, namely, the Mauler, Diamond Eyes, Vampire Chain, and Cat O' Nine Tails.
None of the Casters benefit much from raising Strength, Dexterity, or Vitality, because IMO these stats are more geared towards melee combat. This is why these are last priority.
The Bard and Gadgeteer, at least in this party, are the tanks. Sword and Shield is the way to go (Light Swords and Light Shields?) They both have the Dual Weapons skill, however, there are too many melee penalties involved. They can't use any of the best off-hand weapons (no Mace and Flail skill, so no Diamond Eyes, also no Rogue-only Thieves' Dagger.) The best that they can do is probably a Stiletto, but that doesn't justify Dual Weapons IMO.
Neither benefit much from raising Intelligence, because Powercast does nothing for them, because they are using items, not casting spells. Piety is a poor choice for them, as well, because they get no spell points from it, unlike the casters (controversial, as some don't like Piety for spell points). Vitality is a mystery to me. It gives hit points, stamina, and carry capacity (though less than Strength). However, it helps no skills, and Iron Skin only gives a few percentage points of damage resistance, and is hard to raise, because you have to get hit for it to count toward a skill increase.
This is why I stress, different from MPNorman, a Magic Damage Party that capitalizes on the strengths of each character, while also helping the whole party at the same time.
Bard and Gadgeteer: Dexterity (Reflextion) and Strength (Powerstrike), then about equal Speed and Senses for the eventual Snakespeed and Eagle Eye. This makes for two decent tanks, hitting hard, fast, and often. They can also "cast" Heal All quickly with high initiative.
Priest, Alchemist, Psionic and Mage: Speed (Snakespeed, which is harder to raise, which is why it's first). Intelligence at 95, waiting for the free +5 from the Trynton Fountain for Powercast, which is easy to make up for by casting any spell. Senses and Piety come later, about equal, for the extra initiative, to-hit, stamina, and spell points. Also, Eagle Eye will help with their slings when not using magic, and Iron Will makes them resistant to magic. This makes for 4 casters who cast quickly, do a lot of magic damage, and are resistant to magic. Also, 4 Portal users.
This is done with an all-Human party, to maximize total attribute points (they get 45 base to everything as well, so nothing is too bad). I balanced out the genders as well (3 male and 3 female characters, making sure to make the Bard and Gadgeteer female so they can use the stamina regenerating items).
The "one and done" skills are done as such: The Bard does the Communication skill (obviously, as he/she gets a 25% bonus). The Locks and Traps skill is done by the Gadgeteer (there is no Rogue with a 25% bonus), as there are no other choices in this party, and the Gadgeteer starts with a bonus to it., and the Bard is tied up with Communication.
Mythology was first done with the Psionic, as Senses and Intelligence are controlling attributes for it (which the Psionic starts with high Senses), but now everybody is a master of it. The Artifacts skill is done with the Mage, as he/she started with the highest Intelligence (Intelligence and Senses are controlling attributes for it). There is no Bishop in the party to give a 25% bonus to Artifacts, so I will use Mana Stones later.
This is all in preparation for the inevitable Arnika Road first run, which is hard on a magic damage party. I want to dominate the map, so no running away. Also, I may have broken the map, which means that due to my high level, any level monsters can spawn. I may see low level enemies that nobody ever sees, due to the traditional knowledge of leaving the Monastery at level 5 or 6. It would be a welcome break not to face level 10 Higardi Brigand every fight. I was able to waste 4 level 14 Flesheater Slimes, which is why I got this level up, so I suppose I'm pretty powerful.
Post edited April 05, 2022 by RChu1982
Level 19:
Priest: Falling Stars
Alchemist: Earthquake
Psionic: Cerebral Hemorrhage
Mage: Asphyxiation
I have picked the second of three level 7 spells. Each character has 98 or better skill in: Music, Engineering, all realm skills. The spellbook skills are maxed: Divinity, Alchemy, Psionics, Wizardry (100 natural, 125 with the bonus).
As for ranged combat, everybody is at least at 75 skill in: Ranged Combat, Bow, Throwing and Sling.
As for melee combat, The Bard and Gadgeteer are working on: Close Combat, Sword, Shield, Powerstrike, and Reflextion skills. The Priest is working on Close Combat, Mace and Flail, and Shield skills. The Alchemist is working on Close Combat and Staff and Wand skills. The Psionic and Mage abstain from melee combat, as they are far too weak (poor HPs, poor armor choices, no shield ability, poor weapon choices besides the Staff of Doom, which the Alchemist is training for).
Since you seem to be grinding, you might be interested in this thread on Steam where someone posted a AutoHotkey script to partially automate training. https://steamcommunity.com/app/245450/discussions/0/3416556480596199683/
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MachinTrucChose: Since you seem to be grinding, you might be interested in this thread on Steam where someone posted a AutoHotkey script to partially automate training. https://steamcommunity.com/app/245450/discussions/0/3416556480596199683/
I'm almost done grinding lol. Getting from 98 skill to 99, and then 99 to 100, is a slow process. I definitely think there is RNG involved, as some skills seem to get to 100 effortlessly, while others take forever and a day. Once I get all magic skills to 100, I will be leaving the Monastery with maxed magic power, and there will be no more need to grind.
Most skills take a long time to grind to 100. However, this is easier done in the Monastery, when you're alone. In Arnika, you have the unwanted "help" of Higardi Patrols, as well as Lay Brothers, plus sometimes one of your favorite vendors gets involved. If you can get to where you want to be before the dreaded Arnika Road first stretch, you can effortlessly smash any enemies in your way. You don't have the concern of "which realm needs to be increased". I have a few Magic Nectars for emergencies, but I will rely on sleeping, as well as decent fighting abilities, to get me to Arnika.
Post edited June 08, 2022 by RChu1982
Level 20:
Priest: Death Wish
Alchemist: Tsunami
Psionic: Detect Secrets
Mage: Nuclear Blast
I have finally picked the last of the 3 level 7 spells. All level 6 spells and below can be safely cast at power level 7. Level 7 spells can be safely cast at power level 3.
Each of the realm skills are at 99 or better. This is challenging to get that last skill point. It seems random, as some skills seem to effortlessly get to 100, while other require a lot of work.
Getting to level 21 will grant an extra chance to get better items from treasure chests, as per Flamestryke's site. I wonder if I will have the patience to grind that extra level.
Edit: According to Flamestryke's site, a lot of the treasure chests in Arnika have a level sensor, which means that getting from level 20 to level 21 puts me in a new potential treasure class, though it's not that big of a deal. I still have a few skills that I want to grind anyways.
Post edited June 20, 2022 by RChu1982
This is so cool to see someone play Wizardry 8 in a way I would never do myself.

I had to finally stop playing this game due to the fact that now that I'm older I get motion sickness.
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abbayarra: This is so cool to see someone play Wizardry 8 in a way I would never do myself.

I had to finally stop playing this game due to the fact that now that I'm older I get motion sickness.
I think Wizardry 8 is slow enough to not give me motion sickness.

Elder Scrolls games, on the other hand, aren't so nice in this regard. (Daggerfall is particularly bad, while in Arena it's are mitigated by the fact that looking up or down just isn't a thing.)

Also, I got some motion sickness watching a speedrun of Jedi Academy. (Worth noting that speedruns are likely worse than casual play in this regard.)

Been re-playing Saviors of Sapphire Wings lately. Game isn't without its issues, but I'm having fun, having reached the top floor of the final postgame dungeon. (Note that there's further postgame content, but no more dungeons, after this.) Perhaps a little relevant to this topic is the fact that magic damage is the way to go in SoSW, with Healer getting probably the most useful offensive spells (but make your other class Wizard to boost them). Stranger of Sword City Revisited I'd also recommend, if you want something that's a bit more gritty and more like classic Wizardry (though the life point system reminds me of SaGa 1).
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abbayarra: This is so cool to see someone play Wizardry 8 in a way I would never do myself.

I had to finally stop playing this game due to the fact that now that I'm older I get motion sickness.
Not many people have the patience to do what I'm doing. It's been taking around a month for each carefully planned out level up. I actually work full time, Monday through Friday, so I'm not going as fast as a kid living in their parents' basement. I'm trying to create the "perfect" MDP, though in reality, there is no such thing. I can only create, perhaps, a very fun MDP, with a good variety of spells, instruments, and gadgets, to obliterate anybody in my way.
Using all Humans allows me to get the most of those extremely precious attribute points. I'm even sacrificing Powercast because I refuse to waste those 5 attribute points to get from 95 to 100 Intelligence, instead waiting on the Trynton Fountain for PC. I realize this will be an inconvenience, but it will save precious attribute points in the long run.
Bishops might be more powerful, with some discipline, but they level up slowly. I'm using Specialists and Specialist Casters, the two easiest experience tracks. Bishops would be lagging behind in levels. Not to mention, I have 4 casters, which means 4 portals. Also, 1 Element Shield caster, 1 Soul Shield caster, and 4 offensive casters in Round 1 of combat (once the Bard and Gadgeteer actually get some decent instruments/gadgets). No need for Haste, as I'm maxing Speed and Senses for everybody for maximum initiative, combined with Snakespeed.
I noticed that some level 6 and 7 spells suck, which is why I skipped them. Prismic Ray, Prismic Chaos, and Blizzard can all cause the blinding effect, which is very annoying, just like the Omnigun and Ebon Staff do as well. Pandemonium can cause the fear effect, making enemies run away, delaying combat, and robbing me of experience. Turncoat I'm not crazy about, as it makes the battle longer, since you can't kill your new "friend" until the effect wears off, and it's not guaranteed to work, and only targets one monster. Banish is extremely situational, since it only works on Undead (why are there so few undead in this game?), summons like Elementals, and Demons (so few Demons as well). You can literally find it for free in the northern Swamp, or just buy it from Braffit, why waste a spell pick? The same argument could be made for Holy Water, but it's not hard to grind from the Savant Orb for a free book.
I'm almost using the same party recommended by MPNorman on the Steam forums. The major difference is that I'm actually building my casters like casters. That means that the Priest and Alchemist are being treated more or less the same as the frail Psionic and Mage, emphasizing the attributes that benefit magic casting primarily (Intelligence, Piety, Speed, and Senses), and ignoring Strength, Dexterity, and Vitality until the first 4 are maxed. This makes for only 2 mediocre melee combatants (the Bard and Gadgeteer aren't too bad, definitely better than the casters, but not nearly as good as a Fighter or Rogue.) The other 4 are squishies (at least the Priest get a Shield and can use the useful Mace and Flail weapon set, which is superior to the weapons the other 3 casters get). This is why I heavily delayed the Arnika Road, but I actually enjoy the grind. Being level 20 or 21 when I leave the Monastery, it will probably be a cakewalk to get to Arnika, due to the sheer level difference.
Post edited June 22, 2022 by RChu1982
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abbayarra: This is so cool to see someone play Wizardry 8 in a way I would never do myself.

I had to finally stop playing this game due to the fact that now that I'm older I get motion sickness.
avatar
dtgreene: I think Wizardry 8 is slow enough to not give me motion sickness.

Elder Scrolls games, on the other hand, aren't so nice in this regard. (Daggerfall is particularly bad, while in Arena it's are mitigated by the fact that looking up or down just isn't a thing.)

Also, I got some motion sickness watching a speedrun of Jedi Academy. (Worth noting that speedruns are likely worse than casual play in this regard.)

Been re-playing Saviors of Sapphire Wings lately. Game isn't without its issues, but I'm having fun, having reached the top floor of the final postgame dungeon. (Note that there's further postgame content, but no more dungeons, after this.) Perhaps a little relevant to this topic is the fact that magic damage is the way to go in SoSW, with Healer getting probably the most useful offensive spells (but make your other class Wizard to boost them). Stranger of Sword City Revisited I'd also recommend, if you want something that's a bit more gritty and more like classic Wizardry (though the life point system reminds me of SaGa 1).
The funny thing is that Morrowind and Oblivion don't cause any motion sickness while Wizardry 8 and The Witcher do. It probably also has something to do with moving to a 32 inch monitor. I can't believe how cheap they have gotten!
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dtgreene: I think Wizardry 8 is slow enough to not give me motion sickness.

Elder Scrolls games, on the other hand, aren't so nice in this regard. (Daggerfall is particularly bad, while in Arena it's are mitigated by the fact that looking up or down just isn't a thing.)

Also, I got some motion sickness watching a speedrun of Jedi Academy. (Worth noting that speedruns are likely worse than casual play in this regard.)

Been re-playing Saviors of Sapphire Wings lately. Game isn't without its issues, but I'm having fun, having reached the top floor of the final postgame dungeon. (Note that there's further postgame content, but no more dungeons, after this.) Perhaps a little relevant to this topic is the fact that magic damage is the way to go in SoSW, with Healer getting probably the most useful offensive spells (but make your other class Wizard to boost them). Stranger of Sword City Revisited I'd also recommend, if you want something that's a bit more gritty and more like classic Wizardry (though the life point system reminds me of SaGa 1).
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abbayarra: The funny thing is that Morrowind and Oblivion don't cause any motion sickness while Wizardry 8 and The Witcher do. It probably also has something to do with moving to a 32 inch monitor. I can't believe how cheap they have gotten!
They may be cheap in terms of monetary cost, but they're still not cheap in terms of space required, and won't be until there's a way to fit a 32 inch display in a space that's smaller than 32 inch.

For this reason, small monitors will never be pointless.

(And I still haven't gotten around to trying to get the computer I built early this year to actually boot.)