Had one long battle (20+ rounds) in the Rapax Rift. Wasn't that difficult, particularly once I started using Element/Soul Shield, but I did have one death. But fortunately, the Bishop who survived was the dwarf who had just learned Resurrection (as a spell).

Worth noting:
* A lot of Rapax Initiates (with some Priestesses and a sizeable group of Patrols)
* After a while, the patrols were dead, but there were still a fair amount of spellcasters
* Was using mostly physical damage in this battle. Some use of Eye for an Eye, which resulted in enemies being briefly webbed or silenced.
* I found that my Valkyrie's Amulet of Life had come uneqipped during the battle. The Hex status effect had lowered her Artifacts below the requirements to equip it!
* I didn't try using the Staff of Doom as an item (which might have sped things up a bit), but I was able to kill one enemy with Quicksand PL1.
* An enemy dropped a Philosopher's Shield.

Also, I was able to buy a second Dagger, so I can now combine the two to get a , which has the following properties:
* Looks like a dagger in the inventory. (I didn't try dropping it.)
* No damage listed, even though it appears to be a short range melee weapon
* No class can equip it
* No race can equip it
* Sex: NONE! (That probably means that both male and female characters are unable to equip it because of their sex.)
* Requires 0 Strength, 0 Strength, and I believe there's also two requirements of 0 Sword.
* Sells (to Antone) for 1g, costs 1g to buy it back. (Note that, if it's the last item in the party member's inventory, the list may be a bit misleading, as is indistinguishable from an empty slot. (There are supposed to be 2 spaces between "as" and "is" in that sentence.)

I figure that Vi should at least acknowledge the term "Guardia", the way that Umpani quest giver does.

Or, like how Bela says "My sister." if you ask him about Rebecca.

Or, I believe I've been able to get Lord Braffit (or at least I think it was him; it was a long time ago) to mention the Bane of the Cosmic Forge. (On second check, that isn't the case. Maybe it was Bela?)

Worth noting that you don't get much detail, other than this mention, and that I think the BotCF mention may have said that's a tale for another time. (Of course, that other time would be Wizardry 6.)

Also, Lord Braffit says he's heard of Guardia, though he hasn't been there. So why does Vi Domina say she's never heard of it, despite the fact that she clearly *has* been there?

You can chalk the randomness to BS, and just play the game. I know I have, I'm on medication, and beer.
I have been grinding my Psionic and Mage (normally not characters that you would associate with melee combat), to acceptable levels of Close Combat and Staff and Wand skill. This is unusual, as there is normally only one character in your party with the Staff of Doom. I now have 3 characters capable of using this item, so training is happening.
This is what I am planning: The Bard up front, the Gadgeteer and Priest on the flanks (protected by shields), and the Alchemist, Psionic, and Mage in the center, swinging with their Staves of Doom).

The Staff of Doom isn't the only good staff in the game. There's also:
* That flame staff that the rapax high priestess drops. (Can be used to cast Firestorm, and has plenty of charges; I should try using it in Bayjin. Currently having my Valkyrie, who is the worst character in this party from a magic damage standpoint, carry it.)
* The Ebon Staff, if you manage to get a Spirit Staff to drop.
* Cane of Corpus and Zatoichi Bo are also really good staves, though they're not usable by just anyone. The Rod of Sprites, if you manage to get one (and have someone who can equip it), is quite nice.

Anyway, my party is level 14, with 4 characters ready to level up. (Maybe I should do this just for the extra portals?) This is at a point when Bard/Gadgeteer are rather lacking in magic damage. (At least I'm not getting backfires!) Furthermore, other casters can do some decent magic damage, but the magic offense has platoued. My elf bishop has 50 Power Cast, my ranger has a lower amount (haven't checked), and my dwarf bishop hasn't unlocked the skill yet. (Perhaps a human battle bishop might be a good build to try at some point; can get Power Cast at level 12 while getting Power Strike around the level that the dwarf does.)

Current plans are as follows:
* Finish buying Robes of Rejuvenation for everyone. (For now, I've decided to not purchase Infinity Helms, even though they're better for those who can use it.)
* Get the level 7 instruments/gadgets that are available in the Rapax Castle.
* Head over to the Sea Caves to get the remaining level 7 instruments/gadgets (plus a couple decent single-target gadgets in Bayjin, of course); also pick up the Destinae Dominus while I'm there.
* Sorceress Queen fight, since there's a gadget there (rather odd place for a gadget for a spell that isn't that high a level).
* Will still need to get the Astral Dominae, of course.

Now have enough XP to get my Bishops to level 15.

The dwarf doesn't have enough Alchemy to learn quicksand; she's short 2 points, and I do want that spell. (Although, she still has one more level to go before Power Cast.)

One oddity:
* The Cap of Wiles (+10 Mental Magic) does not allow you to learn a spell you otherwise couldn't due to lack of skill.
* The Helm of Insight (+10 Psionics), on the other hand, *does*. My dwarf bishop can learn Psionic Blast at her next level up if and only if I equip this item before leveling up. (Since I'm already level 14, I'll wait for the book with her; also this means I no longer have to worry about Psionics with her unless I want Mind Flay later.)

Also, thinking about the future MDP party, though with a few constraints:
* Everyone must have SP, at least from level 5 onward.
* No multiclassing into classes that don't get SP. Furthermore, each character gets at most *one* hybrid class. (In practice, this may not matter too much, because multiclassing is frequently sub-optimal, anyway.)
* No duplicate classes. (I *might* end up changing this.)
* No Stealth characters. (More precisely, nobody who naturally learns the skill.)

This would mean that I would have:
* One of each specialist caster.
* One bishop. (Do I use my rule about not saving spell picks, or do I instead use the reverse rule, where spell picks can only be spent if the spell can't be learned via book?)
* One hybrid, but I don't know what would be a good choice here. (I happen to like Valkyrie, even though that class can't contribute much to magic damage.)
* Eventually, 6 portals, with 5 possibly available at level 11.
* No character who naturally gets the Locks & Traps skill. (Only classes that get it are Ninja (has Stealth), Bard (no SP), Gadgeteer (again, no SP), and Rogue (has both disqualifying issues). Will need to use magic to deal with locks and traps. (For traps, saving before first checking the trap and reloading if a problem trap is hit may be necessary, though On the other hand, if the trap tripped is Guardian, that might not need a reload.)

Aren't you planning on clearing out the Sixth Bough for the Trynnie?
As many of us seasoned gamers know, the Rattkin have made home in the Trynnie's territory. I made it possible for them to take their homeland back, by killing all Rattkin (while gaining the Astral Dominae for free).
Getting 3 Staves of Doom was no easy task, nor is it what most "normal" players do. Most of the normies assign one character to the SOD and forget it.
However, I have successfully ground 2 extra SODs from the 2 set Rapax Corpses. This brings the total to 3 SODs. The Alchemist has already been trained for it, maxing out his Close Combat and Staff and Wand skills. The Psionic and Mage are not normally trained for it, as they are the weakest physical characters in the game (lowest hit points and armor selection).
This makes even the Psionic and Mage ready for melee combat. I trained them with Quarterstaves to hit safely from behind the front lines, any enemy that threatens the party (Savant Guards, Troopers, Berserkers, and best of all, Slashers).
The total result being a MDP that can withstand anything. Note that, if I can grind 2 Rapax Corpses with a 10% chance of item drop, I can surely handle a 20% drop from the Buccaneer Ghosts (with the potential to drop both Light Swords and Light Shields).

Thing is, Falling Stars might not be that useful here, considering that:
* Most divinity casters don't go for power cast (and take longer to get it), and in the case of a Valkyrie (or Lord, but I'll assume Valkyrie without loss of generality here), and since the class has no intelligence requirement, it takes longer. Hence, the Valkyrie is less likely to have it, and will have it at a lower skill level if she does.
* Of all the classes that get spells, Valkyries are the worst for offensive magic, not getting a cone spell until level 12 at the earliest. (Compare to level 3 for a Mage, Psionic, or Bishop.) (This is part of the reason I like the Dracon race for this class; it gives her a breath attack that she can use right from the start, without having to first develop her magic.)
* Falling stars comes late, at level 22 at the earliest. (And Restoration gets priority for the first spell pick, so maybe not until 23 or 24 if spell picks are not saved.) This is late, and it will be behind everyone else's nuke. That's in addition to it being the weakest of the nukes.
* There's only 3 Priest spells of the Earth realm. Web is one I tend not to use, and I tend not to pick it in the first place. (And, from what I've heard, Web is less useful on hard difficulty.) Armorplate only needs to be covered by 1 character. And there's Falling Stars, of course. Hence, it may not be worth training this realm for a Valkyrie. Better to focus on Water and Divine; most of the Priest spells I tend to have Valkyrie's use are going to be in one of those realms. (Well, Mental has some spells, but they're more for practice on a Valkyire, and the portal spells are good, but don't really need good skill to use effectively (plus you get minimum 59 skill just by knowing it).


I'm not into heavy armor in this game, as it's heavy and Valkyries don't need the extra AC, thanks to their high HP and the fact that the class has a Vitality requirement, ensuring that the character will have decent HP regardless of race.

Nevertheless, I really do like the Valkyire class, given that:
* Cheat death greatly reduces the cost of the Valkyrie reaching 0 HP (should it somehow happen) or being instant killed.
* The bonus to Polearms is really nice for most of the game. You get good polearms sooner than other weapon types, with the Awl Pike, the Lance, the Stun Rod, and the Dread Spear all being buyable at different points. Sure, it may not have any truly exceptional endgame weapons, but at that point you don't need more physical offense, as game balance already favors physical damage at this point to the point where full casters can be good enough with the Staff of Doom, Diamond Eyes, or the Mauler (or even one of the better whips, if you don't mind only getting half the strength bonus).

One other thing to investigate: If I'd prefer, instead of the breath attack, a secondary focus in Artifacts, what race would raise the skill fastest for this class? (Could be an approach if you want Power Cast, which does work on non-attack spells.) Could end up investigating Human (high stat sum makes it ideal for builds that need high amounts of stats not class required) and Mook (apprentice status is also a sign the race has good scores in attributes not required for the class).

(By the way, I investigated what a full Artifacts build, focusing it at the expense of anything else that gets in the way, and the result is a Bishop who has room for Psionics and possibly Wizardry.)

Yeah, I'm not going to do that level of grinding, I'd rather do other things with my gaming time. But, whatever boats your float. And, yes, you may call me a "filthy popamole casual." I do it all the time. [I'd go so far as to call RChu hardcore, meself.]

So... you don't like fun? Web is actually rather useful. Well, in the short term. And, really, only for a caster. Why? Because, the "accuracy" of statuses is ...>web>sleep>paralysis>unconscious>death. But, being such a low level spell with a low point cost, it falls off fast, especially on expert. But, yes, divine hybrids are very hard to get to a nice level of multi-target damage for most of the game. Although, how necessary is restoration on such a party anyway? With that speed of slaying. Not saying it isn't useful, just saying, if played well, the party should be extremely defensive due to awesome offensive power. Unless one both rushes through the game and severely weakens magical damage in the process...

If heavy armor wasn't an encumbrance issue, it wouldn't be as fun. Also, more ac is almost always good. But, reflextion b/w armorplate is often good enough, and the late-game robes are, most often, worth it for all spell-casters who can don such gear. The elemental resistances are worth it for fighters, but not as much for the other warriors. And, the snakeskin boots are usually a better choice than the mantis boots. But, the infinity helm and mantis gloves are totally worth it, Leg pieces are more nuanced.

I like how, in the long term, a fighter is a better spearman. Even not that bad in the short term, since higher attributes combined with the simple fact that enough higher damage overcompensates for lower accuracy. But, a valkyrie can get more mileage out of the stun rod, which is quite good. Similarly, a samurai can do some nice things with bloodlust, but a bard can do some nice things with it too. Actually, all of the warriors' skill bonuses are nice... well, less so the ninja. Nevertheless, none of them are so great as to pigeonhole builds. Either way, the polearm bonus is most significant during mid-game. I've never run a valk long enough to see how useful cheat death is later on, but it's meh on a balanced party till at least the swamp. But, maybe that's just a result of playing expert. Although, with how much stamina regen a valk can get, it might be enough to be impactful on the peak against insta-death casting monsters.

Sadly, most of the warrior passives are meh. But, knock-out is very good, auto-search is some convenient utility, and fearless and blind fight aren't too shabby, but highly, highly situational. And then there's auto-penetrate, which is balanced by itemization, it's that good. The other passives just aren't as good, which is not to say that they aren't welcome, they're still useful when they need to be. And then there is the other aspect of the regen passive, but, due to itemization, is mostly a non-factor.

Aside: I love the battle log's "CHARNAME is fearless!!"

Thing is, in the long run, there's only so much melee power that you actually need, and with total number of swings effectively growing quadratically (more attacks and more swings per attack), it's rather easy to go well past that point. In fact, I'd argue that melee is overpowered in the late game.

You really don't need anything stronger than a spear-wielding Valkyrie for your melee units, and could probably do fine with less.

Higher damage only overcompensates for lower accuracy if the enemies can actually survive being hit. Against low HP enemies, if you can kill them in one hit, you don't need more damage. (This can come up with certain enemies late game, notably low HP enemies and sprites. The former case is often the case where magic damage makes sense in parties with partial magic damage capability.)

Which happens to be the part of the game where spell power falls off, while physical power gets a huge boost due to extra attacks and swings.

(Spells tend to fall off around the mid teens, due to the lack of area spells at level 5 and the lack of area damage with good targeting (that is, not cone) at level 6; the situation improves once level 7 spells (especially the nukes) get good.)

Apparently, the KO chance is only 3% (at level 1) to 5% (at level 20). A weapon with a good KO chance, like the Giant's Sword, will blow the fighter's KO chance away. (Though, apparently they stack additively, so you can get 35% KO.)


Critical Strike is also apparently rather weak, with 125 skill only providing 5% KO; some weapons, like the stilletto, have more. (Or you could have a ranger use the tripleshot crossbow; similar kill chance (if not using ammo that adds more), but you get more attacks, at least until you pass out.)

By the way, I had a fight where both my bishops died. Fortunately, they didn't die at the same time, and both know Resurrection, so I ended the battle with everyone alive. (My party is level 15 now.)

Fought some interesting enemies in the swamp, on my way to Trynton to set a portal at the SP/hex fountain there.

I agree that there is diminishing returns with melee damage. I'll also add that, due to the way the game works, ranged weapons tend to hit more often. Melee would be more balanced if enemies kited the player.

I must be playing wrong, if flurry of misses is more powerful than death of a number of guaranteed strikes.

The fighter can use most of the high KO weapons, and can add their natural bonus to any weapon, and the chance of a status effect from a weapon increases with every level after fifteen, and fighter is tied for fastest leveling, and KO is more likely to land than death, and fighters can get their physical damage attributes high extremely fast, and the chance is for all weapons, ranged and melee. It's not much until it's too much: at end-game. Which shows that fighters really didn't need it, they are strong enough without it!

Spell-casting warriors are slow burns, especially if one wants to actually use their magic. And, if not, why not just use a fighter is a rather important question. And, with divinity, the magic is useful, but somewhat boring—which, in and of itself, is due to magic being rather boring in this game. And what's the main appeal of multiple divinity casters, compared to other schools? Guardian angel, heal all, rest all, and, eventually, restoration? Can do just fine with consumables, technically. At least the other such warriors have instant kill, meh, and unique itemization. Shame that Maenad's lance is merely in the data. (Fun fact: instant kill has saved my bacon far more than cheat death.) And then, magic screen is so powerful, that getting it to max power faster is a huge boon. And then there's the ridonkulous bishop.

Never thought I'd be the one to see more value in a priest than a valkyrie, but here we are. Especially when valk, monk, and ranger are the "easy hybrids." Maybe my current party will change my mind, who's to say?

Are you sure it works that way, and not the reverse (chance increasing with every level until 15, at which point it would cap)? Particularly if the data was gained by reverse engineering rather than testing.

I'd argue that divinity is the most interesting school of magic in this game, mainly because I consider direct damage to be the most boring effect a spell could have.
Guardian angel is single target. Hence, having multiple characters who can cast this spell can be quite handy, so that you can put the spell up on multiple characters.

Late game, sometimes Heal All isn't enough to fully heal the party, plus having multiple characters cast it can be handy if one cast fails for whatever reason. (Although, in that case, sometimes it can be useful to pair it with Guardian Angel, so that the casts aren't redundant.)

Similarly with Rest All, particularly if the party contains multiple stamina-intensive builds. (This includes not just stamina casters, but also characters wielding Giant's Swords or Tripleshot Crossbows.)

Restoration on multiple characters can be useful if one of them has afflicted unconsciousness. Say your Valkyrie's Cheat Death just triggered, or your Bard was knocked unconscious; they can't really just use Restoration on themselves at this point! Also, again it's single target, so having it on multiple characters can be good for recovering from multiple status ailments. Also, consumables don't really replace this particular spell, due to the following:
* Potions are self-only, and therefore are useless for curing disabling status ailments like afflicted unconsciousness. (Remember that a character who is afflicted with onconsciousness has likely taken damage from the attack, which Smelling Salts won't remove.)
* The Garland of Roses is rare, and therefore is not something that you can expect to find. Furthermore, only 3 classes can equip it if you do manage to acquire this item, and 2 of them are capable of (eventually) learning Restoration. (By the way, anyone know what spell it casts in Wizardry 7, and what power level of that spell?)

Some updates regarding a couple characters in my party:
* My level 15 Dwarf Bishop, when Hasted, is getting 2 attacks and 2 swings per attack with the Staff of Doom. Note that I've not been using her spells as much recently because she doesn't yet have Power Cast (will learn it next level).
* My Ranger's spells are starting to contribute meaningfully to battles where magic damage works well. Having Power Cast probably helps a little. On the other hand, she hasn't been using magic during fights with Rapax, as she's usually better off swinging her Giant's Sword (and having the Elf Bishop cast Rest All to keep her stamina up).

Current progress:
* Got the instruments and gadgets in the Rapax Castle. Once my Bishops reach level 16, I'll level up the Bard and Gadgeteer to 18, even if that creates a level imbalance for a bit, so that I can make use of these instruments and gadgets.
* Next area to explore is Bayjin, followed by the Shallows and the Sea Caves.
* Planning on doing the Sorceress Queen afterwords, to get the Superman gadget (rather late). Should be easy at the level I expect to be.
* Maybe then I'll take out the Rattkin Breeders.

Edit:
* Worth noting that my Bard and Gadgeteer are rather lacking in magic damage at their current level of 15. The Piercing Pipes and Port-O-Potty are showing their age at this point, and the only suitable substitutes require level 18 and are found in late-game areas. I've found some of them, but still need the level.

You filthy casuals! How dare you not perfectly play the game, with the best weapons, and the most optimal, fun party possible!
I'm joking, of course. I just despise laziness, and stupidity, which you will find a lot of, not just with the younger kids, but the older boomers glued to their cell phones (there, I said it, I hate older boomers too), because they got all the good housing before us older Milennials could get in the housing market).
For the most part, why not just grind until you can handle the heat in the kitchen?
I sure did, hanging out in the Monastery until level 21.
I hung out in Arnika until I felt I could rush the Trynton Well at level 27.
Some people just don't want to wait.
This is what you get, sandwiched in between the Baby Boomer generation, and these new Generation Z kids.

Party at level 16, except the Bard and Gadgeteer, who are level 18.

Infernal Horn and Jackhammer are so much fun, even at this level. I can actually use magic damage strats in non-trivial encounters again! Made Bayjin go a lot faster, certainly.

Also, Dwarf Bishop finally has Power Cast, so she can start to practice her magic more.

For Bayjin, I put both Stamina casters in the back, and my Dwarf Bishop in the front. Risky, but she has damage resistance, and she has an extended range weapon, which is useful when the enemies also do. (My Ranger and Valkyrie also have extended range weapons, while the Stamina casters have only short range.)

About to go underwater, which means that, unfortunately, the Bard's Infernal Horn won't be usable for a bit. So, I'll give her the Hades Harp.

On one enemy:
* Bard did 40 damage with the Succubus Song.
* Gadgeteer did 114(!) damage with the Microwave ray.

I'm at the point where deciding which gadgets to keep in the Gadgeteer's inventory is becoming harder. Should I keep the Port-O-Potty and Holographic Projector around?

It seems that *you* might be the "lazy" one, hanging out in the Monastery rather than exploring the wide world, with all that neat stuff. You're missing out on being able to nuke your enemies every single battle without having to worry about SP or charges. Yet you're just sitting there, not doing anything productive other than just wandering around in circles, killing the same enemies over and over! (Well, not actually the same thing.)

Also, it's Bela who talks about the bane of the Cosmic Forge. He also responds to the word Guardia. (As I mentioned, Vi Domina does not, even though she really should, since she apparently has a prominent role in Wizardry 7, even if you can't recruit her there.)

Edit: OK, maybe it might be a bit harsh, but this is, perhaps, meant in good fun rather than hostility. There's a place for just wandering around in circles, killing enemies over and over again, but that means you miss out on the benefits of exploration. (In particular, Bards and Gadgeteers need to explore in order to get such useful tools like the Renaissance Lute, which is what I'm currently aiming for.)

Heh, I forgot about superman, that's the interesting thing that divinity warriors get. Well, kinda sorta. I just need to take a step back and see the bigger picture. For example, I'm moving more to seeing fighter like bishops. Of course, fighters are harder to build "wrong," which makes them a bigger "problem," actually. But, a bishop fills holes better than a fighter, since there are greater diminishing returns on melee than ranged than magical damage. Moreover, I'm of the mind that spell-casting warriors are the most interesting classes to build. And, since I find the game on the easy side, I'm more interested in the "hard hybrids." That's why I usually take a lord before a valkyrie. But, I'm doing it the hard way with an all-six instead of accelerating through the tough part with a foursome. (There's also the spell-slinging two thieves/four warriors variant.)

I typed that wrong. It's not the first roll, it's the second one. Or, the chance for it to be a chance doesn't increase, the power to overcome monster's resistances increases with levels. And that might actually only be one roll in-game, like with hit and penetrate checks.

I find healing and curing to be just as boring as damage, but at least the latter makes way-too-long battles shorter, so...

Someone forgor'd the Gen Xers. Well, lots do actually. But, millennial, eh? Yeah, that explains a lot. A LOT. P.S. all generations suck, but I'd rather choose to hate my own the most. It is, after all, the evil I know.

Aside: I find idiots make better company than midwits. I am a government school survivor, so my vision is tainted.