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Watch this video; it puts forth most of the reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZcRi5Y8-M


TL:DR Contrast was awsome; it was short and fun.
Gearbox is untrustrustworthy and have influenced We happy Few to be overpriced and generally crap in the other associated areas.
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ast486: Watch this video; it puts forth most of the reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZcRi5Y8-M

TL:DR Contrast was awsome; it was short and fun.
Gearbox is untrustrustworthy and have influenced We happy Few to be overpriced and generally crap in the other associated areas.
Yeah, so that video has some interesting points, but it's also a bit misleading about certain things. We've reached out to them to talk but, sadly, so far they appear to be more interested in generating controversy than actually talking about the issues raised. Very disappointing, because 130,000 people are now less well informed as a result.

We're going to respond in detail, and explain why I think that.

That being said, I can respond to your concerns here and now. At least I'll have the chance to clear the air. So fire away, and I'll do what I can to answer.
Post edited August 21, 2017 by Manywhelps
Hey Manywhelps,

first, thank you for being active here and for taking your time to respond to even negative posts.

I'm too at the no-buy camp, at until I find out if the game's worth MY money (broke ass student here) and I didn't want to jump on board with 30 bucks just because a price increase was announce.

I would like to know why exactly the price was increased? In your Weekly Journal you said: "For the first people [with many questions), if you could please read our blog post, it answers a huge number of your questions". Unfortunately it doesn't answered this question.

When are going to elaborate on this?
Well since Gearbox doesn't really support GOG I'm wondering if the game will be pulled from the store.
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Filben: Hey Manywhelps,

first, thank you for being active here and for taking your time to respond to even negative posts.

I'm too at the no-buy camp, at until I find out if the game's worth MY money (broke ass student here) and I didn't want to jump on board with 30 bucks just because a price increase was announce.

I would like to know why exactly the price was increased? In your Weekly Journal you said: "For the first people [with many questions), if you could please read our blog post, it answers a huge number of your questions". Unfortunately it doesn't answered this question.

When are going to elaborate on this?
No worries mate. Do my best.

The blog post does answer it actually - we have increased the scope of the game significantly and we're coming to retail. So the game is much bigger, and also we have to have pricing consistent between the digital and retail stores.
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wolfsite: Well since Gearbox doesn't really support GOG I'm wondering if the game will be pulled from the store.
Nope, actually Gearbox Publishing does support GOG. Look at Homeworld. I think you're thinking of 2K, which has published most of Gearbox Software's more recent games. (Similar companies but they operate mostly independently.)
Post edited August 22, 2017 by Manywhelps
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Filben: Hey Manywhelps,

first, thank you for being active here and for taking your time to respond to even negative posts.

I'm too at the no-buy camp, at until I find out if the game's worth MY money (broke ass student here) and I didn't want to jump on board with 30 bucks just because a price increase was announce.

I would like to know why exactly the price was increased? In your Weekly Journal you said: "For the first people [with many questions), if you could please read our blog post, it answers a huge number of your questions". Unfortunately it doesn't answered this question.

When are going to elaborate on this?
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Manywhelps: No worries mate. Do my best.

The blog post does answer it actually - we have increased the scope of the game significantly and we're coming to retail. So the game is much bigger, and also we have to have pricing consistent between the digital and retail stores.
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wolfsite: Well since Gearbox doesn't really support GOG I'm wondering if the game will be pulled from the store.
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Manywhelps: Nope, actually Gearbox Publishing does support GOG. Look at Homeworld. I think you're thinking of 2K, which has published most of Gearbox Software's more recent games. (Similar companies but they operate mostly independently.)
Still feel you've made a big mistake on raising the PC price to match that of consoles.

While on any given platform the Digital price must match its physical release, price between platforms does not have to be the same.

Historically PC games on the whole were sold cheaper that their console counterparts, simply because of the additional costs incurred for selling on console. Though after reading up on the current situation some publishers have started to sell PC games at a higher margin to counter the lower sales volume of their PC versions.

Given the PS4 release is a recent development, the PC was originally your primary audience?

Here you can see that still most multiplatform releases are still cheaper on PC, though a few are the same or even more expensive on PC. More confusing is your are priced higher than major AAA releases such as Call of Duty: WWII and Wolfenstein 2.

http://www.game.co.uk/en/games/coming-soon/?contentOnly=&inStockOnly=false&listerOnly=true&pageSize=48&sortBy=NAME_ASC&pageNumber=1

I have to be 100% honest, I wouldn't pay £60 for ANY game on the PC and on a console it would be a very considered purchase. Had I not seen this game until now (and thus not bought via In Dev) I would not be buying it until there was a hefty sale.

The thing is your course is set now, all I can do is wish you luck.
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Manywhelps: The blog post does answer it actually - we have increased the scope of the game significantly and we're coming to retail. So the game is much bigger, and also we have to have pricing consistent between the digital and retail stores.
Okay, thanks! I haven't read this in particular as an answer until now.
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mechmouse: Historically PC games on the whole were sold cheaper that their console counterparts,
Yes, that's the reason why I never ever bought any console game for 69,99 or even 59,99. I always waited for a used copy that cost 40 bucks tops. As for PC games—good old times with 44,99 or 49,99 tops for a new game—I bought them for full price more often. I wouldn't dare to buy a PC game for 59,99 because I don't see any value, over past games that cost 49,99, that would justify the general price increase.

If there was one thing in the world that was stable in price over decades it was video games. Even after my country got a new currency in 2001, the converted price was still the same.

Furthermore the rapid increase in sale discounts, sale frequencies and market price scimming of the industry doesn't help the fact many will just wait for a sale. To be fair, publishers and developers have the numbers. If they make a good cut this way and if they actually benefit from this price policy in long term, I guess everyone's fine. Many will buy for (the higher) full price, many at a hefty discount—mabye that walk on a tightrope works out.
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Manywhelps: The blog post does answer it actually - we have increased the scope of the game significantly and we're coming to retail. So the game is much bigger, and also we have to have pricing consistent between the digital and retail stores.
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Filben: Okay, thanks! I haven't read this in particular as an answer until now.
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mechmouse: Historically PC games on the whole were sold cheaper that their console counterparts,
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Filben: Yes, that's the reason why I never ever bought any console game for 69,99 or even 59,99. I always waited for a used copy that cost 40 bucks tops. As for PC games—good old times with 44,99 or 49,99 tops for a new game—I bought them for full price more often. I wouldn't dare to buy a PC game for 59,99 because I don't see any value, over past games that cost 49,99, that would justify the general price increase.

If there was one thing in the world that was stable in price over decades it was video games. Even after my country got a new currency in 2001, the converted price was still the same.

Furthermore the rapid increase in sale discounts, sale frequencies and market price scimming of the industry doesn't help the fact many will just wait for a sale. To be fair, publishers and developers have the numbers. If they make a good cut this way and if they actually benefit from this price policy in long term, I guess everyone's fine. Many will buy for (the higher) full price, many at a hefty discount—mabye that walk on a tightrope works out.
The other notable thing with physical media, other than a viable second hand market, is depreciation. In 6 months after release you will pick up a new console copy for £40, while it will still be £60 on PC (except for 2 weeks when its on sale)
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Filben: Okay, thanks! I haven't read this in particular as an answer until now.

Yes, that's the reason why I never ever bought any console game for 69,99 or even 59,99. I always waited for a used copy that cost 40 bucks tops. As for PC games—good old times with 44,99 or 49,99 tops for a new game—I bought them for full price more often. I wouldn't dare to buy a PC game for 59,99 because I don't see any value, over past games that cost 49,99, that would justify the general price increase.

If there was one thing in the world that was stable in price over decades it was video games. Even after my country got a new currency in 2001, the converted price was still the same.

Furthermore the rapid increase in sale discounts, sale frequencies and market price scimming of the industry doesn't help the fact many will just wait for a sale. To be fair, publishers and developers have the numbers. If they make a good cut this way and if they actually benefit from this price policy in long term, I guess everyone's fine. Many will buy for (the higher) full price, many at a hefty discount—mabye that walk on a tightrope works out.
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mechmouse: The other notable thing with physical media, other than a viable second hand market, is depreciation. In 6 months after release you will pick up a new console copy for £40, while it will still be £60 on PC (except for 2 weeks when its on sale)
You raise perfectly fine points across your comments, except that:
- most people (unless you're on GOG) think $60 is a reasonable price for video games of this scope/quality.
- if you don't, that's totally fine! But you clearly don't think any game is worth it to you. So price for us is sort of irrelevant for you specifically.
- economically the $60 price point is the most likely to make our money back. Pretty much it's as simple as that.
- we have to be consistent in pricing - I still don't know how Cd Projeckt got away with different prices for retail and digital. We don't have that kind of pull.
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mechmouse: The other notable thing with physical media, other than a viable second hand market, is depreciation. In 6 months after release you will pick up a new console copy for £40, while it will still be £60 on PC (except for 2 weeks when its on sale)
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Manywhelps: You raise perfectly fine points across your comments, except that:
- most people (unless you're on GOG) think $60 is a reasonable price for video games of this scope/quality.
- if you don't, that's totally fine! But you clearly don't think any game is worth it to you. So price for us is sort of irrelevant for you specifically.
- economically the $60 price point is the most likely to make our money back. Pretty much it's as simple as that.
- we have to be consistent in pricing - I still don't know how Cd Projeckt got away with different prices for retail and digital. We don't have that kind of pull.
Its not a different price between digital and physical, its a different price between platforms.

Console releases have an additional cost, which PC does not. If you look at that link you can clearly see most multi-platform releases are cheaper on PC.

Also,it is not that I don't think "We happy Few" is not worth £60, its that I have a hard time justifying that cost for ANY game on the PC.

now I wish you luck. but if I hadn't bought it already I simply couldn't justify buying it until the price had dropped.
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Manywhelps: You raise perfectly fine points across your comments, except that:
- most people (unless you're on GOG) think $60 is a reasonable price for video games of this scope/quality.
- if you don't, that's totally fine! But you clearly don't think any game is worth it to you. So price for us is sort of irrelevant for you specifically.
- economically the $60 price point is the most likely to make our money back. Pretty much it's as simple as that.
- we have to be consistent in pricing - I still don't know how Cd Projeckt got away with different prices for retail and digital. We don't have that kind of pull.
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mechmouse: Its not a different price between digital and physical, its a different price between platforms.

Console releases have an additional cost, which PC does not. If you look at that link you can clearly see most multi-platform releases are cheaper on PC.

Also,it is not that I don't think "We happy Few" is not worth £60, its that I have a hard time justifying that cost for ANY game on the PC.

now I wish you luck. but if I hadn't bought it already I simply couldn't justify buying it until the price had dropped.
Thank you - and sorry, I didn't mean to come off as antagonistic. I see your point about PC vs console pricing and it's sort of right, but it's more about physical vs digital. Console/PC costs are basically the same, but retail manufacturing costs are the real difference.
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mechmouse: Its not a different price between digital and physical, its a different price between platforms.

Console releases have an additional cost, which PC does not. If you look at that link you can clearly see most multi-platform releases are cheaper on PC.

Also,it is not that I don't think "We happy Few" is not worth £60, its that I have a hard time justifying that cost for ANY game on the PC.

now I wish you luck. but if I hadn't bought it already I simply couldn't justify buying it until the price had dropped.
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Manywhelps: Thank you - and sorry, I didn't mean to come off as antagonistic. I see your point about PC vs console pricing and it's sort of right, but it's more about physical vs digital. Console/PC costs are basically the same, but retail manufacturing costs are the real difference.
Here's some food for thought.

There is a very good reason that console digital and Any PC game that is bound to a distribution system (such as Steam or GoG) should be significantly cheaper than physical console.

If you spend $60 on a physical console game it still has a value, outside of your enjoyment of the game, after purchase. Buy a $60 game, get it home its worth $50, take the shrink wrap off and its worth $40. A few weeks later after you've completed the game its worth $30. 6 months later its worth $20. And so on.

If you spend $60 on any kind of digital game it has zero value, outside of your enjoyment of the game, after purchase. Buy a $60 and the second its bound to your GoG, Steam, Xboxe Live or PSN account it is worthless. You can't resell it. It is why XBox players fought and beat MS over their initial plans to bind games to accounts, it is why digital purchases on consoles still remain the minority.

Digital ownership, is a huge issue for me.
Commercial and consumer software work differently, with consumers being unfairly restricted. If business were forced to use their software via a steam like service, said service would have been sued into oblivion. Imaging not being able to use MS Word while the guy next to you uses Photoshop, just because the software was bought via the same business account. Imagine having to re-buy thousands of dollars of software when you buy or merge with another company because you can't transfer the licenses.

I left Steam because of their insanely unfair usage policies. Why on earth can't my daughter play CIV5 while I play a completely different game.

While GoG does not and cannot force such restrictions of usage, I still have no digital ownership.
I still can't transfer ownership my PC games. I get hit by the proverbial Bus tomorrow and my next of kin have absolutely no right to the thousands of pounds worth of games in my GoG library.
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Manywhelps: Thank you - and sorry, I didn't mean to come off as antagonistic. I see your point about PC vs console pricing and it's sort of right, but it's more about physical vs digital. Console/PC costs are basically the same, but retail manufacturing costs are the real difference.
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mechmouse: Here's some food for thought.

There is a very good reason that console digital and Any PC game that is bound to a distribution system (such as Steam or GoG) should be significantly cheaper than physical console.

If you spend $60 on a physical console game it still has a value, outside of your enjoyment of the game, after purchase. Buy a $60 game, get it home its worth $50, take the shrink wrap off and its worth $40. A few weeks later after you've completed the game its worth $30. 6 months later its worth $20. And so on.

If you spend $60 on any kind of digital game it has zero value, outside of your enjoyment of the game, after purchase. Buy a $60 and the second its bound to your GoG, Steam, Xboxe Live or PSN account it is worthless. You can't resell it. It is why XBox players fought and beat MS over their initial plans to bind games to accounts, it is why digital purchases on consoles still remain the minority.

Digital ownership, is a huge issue for me.
Commercial and consumer software work differently, with consumers being unfairly restricted. If business were forced to use their software via a steam like service, said service would have been sued into oblivion. Imaging not being able to use MS Word while the guy next to you uses Photoshop, just because the software was bought via the same business account. Imagine having to re-buy thousands of dollars of software when you buy or merge with another company because you can't transfer the licenses.

I left Steam because of their insanely unfair usage policies. Why on earth can't my daughter play CIV5 while I play a completely different game.

While GoG does not and cannot force such restrictions of usage, I still have no digital ownership.
I still can't transfer ownership my PC games. I get hit by the proverbial Bus tomorrow and my next of kin have absolutely no right to the thousands of pounds worth of games in my GoG library.
Digital ownership etc is an issue - it's linked to the fact that intellectual property laws are ineffective and just sort of out of place in the modern world. We need a better system but no one seems particularly interested in doing that. And obviously there's literally nothing we can do short of creating our own infrastructure like Blizzard's Battle.net, but that is a solution that is very seriously outside our resources to achieve.

In the meantime, I get it. Regarding retail, as soon as you re-sell that physical copy we don't get a cut of that. So we have to plan for margins at the first point of sale - the second hand market is completely irrelevant to us as developers. I know that sounds harsh/uncaring, but it's simply a fact: we can't make any money from that, so we don't really think about it. And we don't really think about purchases this way - we model based on an average profit based on all sales of the game whether that's digital or retail.

Commercial software licensing also sucks, that much I can tell you. We can't buy software ourselves any more - everything is a subscription model until you get to 50+ people and have the finance to manage enterprise solutions.

Regarding Steam, not much I can do about that. We support GOG to give people choice, but I do think that most people are very happy with Steam. It's easy to look at its flaws but it's still a very, very good system. There's a reason why everyone, including GOG, has emulated the Steam client model. And the main reason is that it's pretty good, actually.

Full disclosure, I really like Galaxy too.
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Manywhelps: - most people (unless you're on GOG) think $60 is a reasonable price for video games of this scope/quality.
Let me stop you there. This game as of yet has moderate quality and a fairly narrow scope. You have PROMISED more, but please don't act like you've delivered. have bought this game twice (and refunded once already) based on the promises. But not a lot has been delivered. Fair enough, you're In Dev (or Early Access) but I hate when people sell on what they want a game to be rather than what it is. For example, Daggerfall was one of the biggest, most in-depth games ever, and it was a fraction of what the devs wanted it to be in the end.

I don't dislike you guys, I just can't fathom why the price increased with so little to show for it overall. Yes, the game has come a long way. It's almost worth the $30 you were charging for it. You'll have a hard time convincing me that this game will be of sufficient breadth/scope/quality to justify this whole situation. Once you complained about being compared to the Witcher 3. Well, you've got a AAA game now. It's only fair to compare it to excellent AAA releases like Call of Duty, Skyrim, and Witcher 3. You want to wear the big boy pants, you place yourself in the big boy league. Now your game will be compared to the likes of Resident Evil VII for quality and story telling, or the Witcher for the open world. Where as before people would compare your title to the similar "Don't Starve" now they'll compare it to far bigger and more expensive projects that have AAA budgets. Or they'll compare it to indy titles like Hellblade and laugh at you for charging twice as much for your game (unless your game delivers on your hype.... Can it?)

So thank you for taking our abuse. We do it because we want to see this project succeed. We love the idea of the game. I WANT to like it. But at the current pricepoint, you'll have to deliver a LOT more than promises.
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Manywhelps: - most people (unless you're on GOG) think $60 is a reasonable price for video games of this scope/quality.
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paladin181: Let me stop you there. This game as of yet has moderate quality and a fairly narrow scope. You have PROMISED more, but please don't act like you've delivered. have bought this game twice (and refunded once already) based on the promises. But not a lot has been delivered. Fair enough, you're In Dev (or Early Access) but I hate when people sell on what they want a game to be rather than what it is. For example, Daggerfall was one of the biggest, most in-depth games ever, and it was a fraction of what the devs wanted it to be in the end.

I don't dislike you guys, I just can't fathom why the price increased with so little to show for it overall. Yes, the game has come a long way. It's almost worth the $30 you were charging for it. You'll have a hard time convincing me that this game will be of sufficient breadth/scope/quality to justify this whole situation. Once you complained about being compared to the Witcher 3. Well, you've got a AAA game now. It's only fair to compare it to excellent AAA releases like Call of Duty, Skyrim, and Witcher 3. You want to wear the big boy pants, you place yourself in the big boy league. Now your game will be compared to the likes of Resident Evil VII for quality and story telling, or the Witcher for the open world. Where as before people would compare your title to the similar "Don't Starve" now they'll compare it to far bigger and more expensive projects that have AAA budgets. Or they'll compare it to indy titles like Hellblade and laugh at you for charging twice as much for your game (unless your game delivers on your hype.... Can it?)

So thank you for taking our abuse. We do it because we want to see this project succeed. We love the idea of the game. I WANT to like it. But at the current pricepoint, you'll have to deliver a LOT more than promises.
Well you're not wrong. We will be compared to the best in the industry, but the public has been doing that (specifically with Bioshock) since we announced. I'm not sure much has changed. We are the ones that made the Don't Starve comparisons, not the public :) Expectations are always a pain in the ass. But I am confident that the game is different enough that people will consider $60 money well spent. Not everyone, but there are people who don't believe $60 is reasonable for any game, and that I can't do anything about.

I've explained the price rise now rather than waiting many times - we have to have consistent pricing across stores, specifically between retail and digital. Even if we didn't, raising the price only on 1.0 means most people would pre-buy at 50% off in the weeks leading up to launch. That isn't reasonable leading into a game release and significantly undercuts the value of your game. The race to the bottom on game pricing is already a major issue faced by the industry and we wouldn't want to contribute to it.
Post edited August 25, 2017 by Manywhelps