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Belsirk: We played at the same difficult, maybe I'm too paranoid, as less than 100 bullets is too little for me for any mission (that is why I increase the strength of my characters), there is enough bullets for one session, but they are finite
Do you mean less then 100 per character? If so, I have to ask how many ranks you've skilled them up in their weapon and whether or not you put mods on their weapons as well (you can get a lot of great mods through weaponsmithing). I generally travel with around 35 to 40 bullets each for mine and have rarely had anyone run completely dry before I have to go to a vendor to get rid of all the loot I've collected anyway.
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Pangaea666: Oh, and while I'm writing here, re:bullets, I've had to stop picking up more stuff as we can't lug it around any more. Sometimes still pick up bullets from loot, but most other stuff we're leaving behind. That's the downside to a fairly strength-weak party I suppose.
Yeah, it becomes an issue, but if you don't bother with armor this helps reduce the weight you constantly carry. As well, have your Weaponsmith break down weapons and it will lighten the load considerably, while also providing you with broken parts to sell at the Citadel for good cash and also yielding the occasional weapon mod, which is very useful.

As to the Prison, you probably didn't do it out of order. The way the story plays out, you'll see that you're not really intended to get in there right away.
Post edited October 31, 2014 by Coelocanth
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Belsirk: We played at the same difficult, maybe I'm too paranoid, as less than 100 bullets is too little for me for any mission (that is why I increase the strength of my characters), there is enough bullets for one session, but they are finite
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Coelocanth: Do you mean less then 100 per character? If so, I have to ask how many ranks you've skilled them up in their weapon and whether or not you put mods on their weapons as well (you can get a lot of great mods through weaponsmithing). I generally travel with around 35 to 40 bullets each for mine and have rarely had anyone run completely dry before I have to go to a vendor to get rid of all the loot I've collected anyway.
Per character and the ranks are 7-10 ... mmm re-reading my words seem I'm paranoid, oh one can never be truly safe :P
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Belsirk: Per character and the ranks are 7-10 ... mmm re-reading my words seem I'm paranoid, oh one can never be truly safe :P
Sounds good. Perhaps I take more trips to vendors than you do? I tend to avoid all random animal encounters, but I do go for the random Raider encounters. This means my inventory fills up relatively quickly, and I travel to the nearest vendor to offload. I then refill on bullets. Do you do a lot of burst fire? I don't usually bother with it until late in Arizona.
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Coelocanth: Yeah, it becomes an issue, but if you don't bother with armor this helps reduce the weight you constantly carry. As well, have your Weaponsmith break down weapons and it will lighten the load considerably, while also providing you with broken parts to sell at the Citadel for good cash and also yielding the occasional weapon mod, which is very useful.

As to the Prison, you probably didn't do it out of order. The way the story plays out, you'll see that you're not really intended to get in there right away.
That is a good point about armour, especially as I read it doesn't do much anyway due to enemies usually having guns that equals your armour. I have some armour on a few people, so if I sold those we'd probably have another 20-30 pounds available. I already melt down what we can, and had to spend a point on Weaponsmithing due to.. in-game events. But it's not enough, and I find we're leaving behind all junk and also many bullets. Could sure need a bottomless bag of holding :D
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Belsirk: Per character and the ranks are 7-10 ... mmm re-reading my words seem I'm paranoid, oh one can never be truly safe :P
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Coelocanth: Sounds good. Perhaps I take more trips to vendors than you do? I tend to avoid all random animal encounters, but I do go for the random Raider encounters. This means my inventory fills up relatively quickly, and I travel to the nearest vendor to offload. I then refill on bullets. Do you do a lot of burst fire? I don't usually bother with it until late in Arizona.
Personally I use burst fire on the assault gunner, as the damage is simply better, and it works out nicely with 5AP from the FAMAS, so he can shoot 6 bullets and do quite some damage. Then the sniper with Bullpop can snipe twice too at 5AP. Those two characters have worked out very well, I'm glad to see. Wiht some weapons the percentage to hit goes down too much when switching to burst, though, so it may not be worth it.

Thinking about inventory again, our pistols girl don't shoot very often, and is probably lugging around 8-900 bullets by now :D Without a SMG, those bullets add up quickly. Perhaps I should take the very long road back to the Citadel and store some there, in case we need it again later. I don't like selling bullets for crap prices, at least to merchants I don't know whether will be there for much longer.
Post edited October 31, 2014 by Pangaea666
Just thought I'd update my post Here where I referenced the 'Average Joe' run. This was to see how Luck affected things (if at all). Well, I can tell you that it has a huge effect on combat. I'm getting "Lucky +1 AP" or "Lucky Crit" or lucky miss (enemies missing me) way more than with low luck characters. Oddly, even though I know Luck has no effect on loot (this was shown on the Wasteland forums where someone dug into the game code), this party is finding probably two or three times the amount of trinkets as well.

Anyway, aside from that, the Averages are doing really well. A bit more challenging in combat since they rarely have anyone other than Angela Deth act first, but it's a really fun run so far. I'm liking this party a lot. My three Rangers are Lucky the 'Face' (the higher Luck and Charisma character), Jo Average, and Jan Average. I picked up Rook, one of the 'filler' Rangers at the Citadel, and also have Pipezi, Angela, and Vulture's Cry to round out the party. Having a blast with these ones.

Oh, and I took no ranks in Leadership. Angela, Vulture's Cry, and Pipezi go Rogue quite often. I thought this would be very annoying, but most of the time they do well and it's sometimes quite amusing.
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Coelocanth: Just thought I'd update my post Here where I referenced the 'Average Joe' run. This was to see how Luck affected things (if at all). Well, I can tell you that it has a huge effect on combat. I'm getting "Lucky +1 AP" or "Lucky Crit" or lucky miss (enemies missing me) way more than with low luck characters. Oddly, even though I know Luck has no effect on loot (this was shown on the Wasteland forums where someone dug into the game code), this party is finding probably two or three times the amount of trinkets as well.

Anyway, aside from that, the Averages are doing really well. A bit more challenging in combat since they rarely have anyone other than Angela Deth act first, but it's a really fun run so far. I'm liking this party a lot. My three Rangers are Lucky the 'Face' (the higher Luck and Charisma character), Jo Average, and Jan Average. I picked up Rook, one of the 'filler' Rangers at the Citadel, and also have Pipezi, Angela, and Vulture's Cry to round out the party. Having a blast with these ones.

Oh, and I took no ranks in Leadership. Angela, Vulture's Cry, and Pipezi go Rogue quite often. I thought this would be very annoying, but most of the time they do well and it's sometimes quite amusing.
That sounds pretty good, and again reinforces my impression that the attributes are pretty well balanced in this game, certainly compared to many others. I'm fairly sure that luck affects safecracking failures. It just seems very weird to me that we often have to try 3 times and such on 60% safes, and more often than you'd expect are getting critical failures. Maybe confirmation bias is in play, but despite lots of points into these skills, we often have issues despite good odds (75-90%).

I have a low-luck party, and barely ever get critical success on safes or in combat, and very rarely get lucky AP, so luck definitely plays a part there.

This will be spoiler territory.

Spent all yesterday fiddling with Titan's Temple. Every outcome was bad in my book, so I kept searching for a less bad option. Ironically, I've now gone back to how I played it blind, which was [SPOILER] to side with the DBMs and deny them the nuke. But sadly I forgot to pick the toaster in the launch room in that play, so I'm retracing my steps for something like the fifth time :( Must admit it was funny to see the consequence of handing the nuke to the Monks, but I didn't want to continue with that result. Had hoped leaving the Monks in control would basically keep the situation as it was, but alas, that wasn't so :( But at least with the other nutters in charge, the valley is somewhat safe, so I assume there will be trade, even if the traders are more screwed than before.[/SPOILER]

The game feels a bit rough around the edges, particularly on this mission, and I've seen some minor bugs here and there, and dialogue options not firing despite clicking the keywords.

To comment on the lugging around bit again, I had to sell 500 bullets in Titan's Temple. They weigh too much, and we're picking them up everywhere anyway. Would probably be less of an issue if one of us used SMGs, but we're not proficient in it. Already have ~8000 scrap though, so it looks like money is a non-issue, and I've not picked up anything but weapons and (sometimes) ammo (and the odd trinket or 'white' item, whatever those may be for) for a long time now. Being such a loot whore, it's weird to leave almost everything behind.

Any clue what a metal bed post is for btw? With a few reloads and meticulous observation, I managed to sneak around in the underground without getting caught, and we found a metal bed post, what looked like a container like in the Citadel, but empty, and a container that couldn't be opened, but that was leaking probably radiation. Weird stuff. Tried to use the metal bed post on all kinds of objects, but no success so far. Another item to lug around, in the hope it will be useful at some point, along with an old condom, a clay wizard, and whatever else :D
Post edited November 02, 2014 by Pangaea666
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Pangaea666: That sounds pretty good, and again reinforces my impression that the attributes are pretty well balanced in this game, certainly compared to many others. I'm fairly sure that luck affects safecracking failures. It just seems very weird to me that we often have to try 3 times and such on 60% safes, and more often than you'd expect are getting critical failures. Maybe confirmation bias is in play, but despite lots of points into these skills, we often have issues despite good odds (75-90%).
Yeah, it's my feeling that Luck also affects your skill rolls (Safe, Demolitions, Locks, etc), but I wasn't sure, so didn't post about it. But this 'average' party (which actually has more Luck points than any other that I've played) seems to critically succeed way more often than they should.

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Pangaea666: I have a low-luck party, and barely ever get critical success on safes or in combat, and very rarely get lucky AP, so luck definitely plays a part there.

This will be spoiler territory.

Spent all yesterday fiddling with Titan's Temple. Every outcome was bad in my book, so I kept searching for a less bad option. Ironically, I've now gone back to how I played it blind, which was [SPOILER] to side with the DBMs and deny them the nuke. But sadly I forgot to pick the toaster in the launch room in that play, so I'm retracing my steps for something like the fifth time :( Must admit it was funny to see the consequence of handing the nuke to the Monks, but I didn't want to continue with that result. Had hoped leaving the Monks in control would basically keep the situation as it was, but alas, that wasn't so :( But at least with the other nutters in charge, the valley is somewhat safe, so I assume there will be trade, even if the traders are more screwed than before.[/SPOILER]

The game feels a bit rough around the edges, particularly on this mission, and I've seen some minor bugs here and there, and dialogue options not firing despite clicking the keywords.
Actually, it's things like no absolutely optimal ending in the Canyon of Titan that make me like the game a lot more than I otherwise might. Although, having said that, probably the optimal ending is to disable the nuke at Silo 7. Still, this one isn't obviously cut-and-dried. At least not at first.

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Pangaea666: To comment on the lugging around bit again, I had to sell 500 bullets in Titan's Temple. They weigh too much, and we're picking them up everywhere anyway. Would probably be less of an issue if one of us used SMGs, but we're not proficient in it. Already have ~8000 scrap though, so it looks like money is a non-issue, and I've not picked up anything but weapons and (sometimes) ammo (and the odd trinket or 'white' item, whatever those may be for) for a long time now. Being such a loot whore, it's weird to leave almost everything behind.

Any clue what a metal bed post is for btw? With a few reloads and meticulous observation, I managed to sneak around in the underground without getting caught, and we found a metal bed post, what looked like a container like in the Citadel, but empty, and a container that couldn't be opened, but that was leaking probably radiation. Weird stuff. Tried to use the metal bed post on all kinds of objects, but no success so far. Another item to lug around, in the hope it will be useful at some point, along with an old condom, a clay wizard, and whatever else :D
There are many items that leave you scratching your head and wondering what the hell they're for. But it turns out many of them only have a use if you do some quests/follow some story lines in a certain way. The bed post is one of them, There's a possibility that you can end up in the jail cells in the Temple of Titan basement, and you'll be stripped of all your gear (it's stored in the chest in the cell area). If that happens, one way to escape is to use that bed post. It's of no use whatsoever otherwise, so just sell it and forget about it. I've found no use for the clay wizard in multiple runs, and am almost positive there's nothing to do with the used condom other than sell it.
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Coelocanth: Actually, it's things like no absolutely optimal ending in the Canyon of Titan that make me like the game a lot more than I otherwise might. Although, having said that, probably the optimal ending is to disable the nuke at Silo 7. Still, this one isn't obviously cut-and-dried. At least not at first.
I'd agree with that, and it reminds me a bit of the first Witcher (not played enough of the 2nd to say), where you have many morally grey decisions of "the lesser evil" type, where it's hard to tell the longer term consequences.

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Coelocanth: There are many items that leave you scratching your head and wondering what the hell they're for. But it turns out many of them only have a use if you do some quests/follow some story lines in a certain way. The bed post is one of them, There's a possibility that you can end up in the jail cells in the Temple of Titan basement, and you'll be stripped of all your gear (it's stored in the chest in the cell area). If that happens, one way to escape is to use that bed post. It's of no use whatsoever otherwise, so just sell it and forget about it. I've found no use for the clay wizard in multiple runs, and am almost positive there's nothing to do with the used condom other than sell it.
Thanks for the info, then I can store that away, or sell it. Some of them don't weigh much, so it's not a big issue to carry it around, thankfully, but it would be nice to use some of them too. If I don't find a use for the magazines and so forth that we're carrying with us, and the other items, maybe I'll look it up once I've finished the game. Would be nice if the game titled the truly useless stuff Junk, as it does with many other items. For example, I have four diskettes that aren't titled Junk, but I've not found a use for them yet, and probably won't either. Think I found them in Rail Nomads.

PS: Slicer Dicers are bloody nasty! But I guess it's just a forewarning of worse things to come :gulp:
PS2: Gamma Ray Blaster is a f***ing menace! That thing eats up robots like nobody's business.
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Pangaea666: Thanks for the info, then I can store that away, or sell it. Some of them don't weigh much, so it's not a big issue to carry it around, thankfully, but it would be nice to use some of them too. If I don't find a use for the magazines and so forth that we're carrying with us, and the other items, maybe I'll look it up once I've finished the game. Would be nice if the game titled the truly useless stuff Junk, as it does with many other items. For example, I have four diskettes that aren't titled Junk, but I've not found a use for them yet, and probably won't either. Think I found them in Rail Nomads.
I think you might be able to sell them to Quarex, but I can't say for certain.

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Pangaea666: PS: Slicer Dicers are bloody nasty! But I guess it's just a forewarning of worse things to come :gulp:
PS2: Gamma Ray Blaster is a f***ing menace! That thing eats up robots like nobody's business.
The Sliver Dicers drive me nuts with that jump ability. Best defense is to spread your team out. And yeah, the GRB is awesome against higher armored foes. I love that thing. I think in one of my future runs I'll edit a second one into the game for double mob-melting hilarity. :P
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Pangaea666: Thanks for the info, then I can store that away, or sell it. Some of them don't weigh much, so it's not a big issue to carry it around, thankfully, but it would be nice to use some of them too. If I don't find a use for the magazines and so forth that we're carrying with us, and the other items, maybe I'll look it up once I've finished the game. Would be nice if the game titled the truly useless stuff Junk, as it does with many other items. For example, I have four diskettes that aren't titled Junk, but I've not found a use for them yet, and probably won't either. Think I found them in Rail Nomads.
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Coelocanth: I think you might be able to sell them to Quarex, but I can't say for certain.
Quarex, was this a guy in Rail Nomads? But if nothing else happens than getting a little scrap for it, that's sort of pointless. We have 12000 and nothing to use it on. Am also ready to leave Arizona now, and without outdoorsman skill, moving around the map is a real annoyance.

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Pangaea666: PS: Slicer Dicers are bloody nasty! But I guess it's just a forewarning of worse things to come :gulp:
PS2: Gamma Ray Blaster is a f***ing menace! That thing eats up robots like nobody's business.
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Coelocanth: The Sliver Dicers drive me nuts with that jump ability. Best defense is to spread your team out. And yeah, the GRB is awesome against higher armored foes. I love that thing. I think in one of my future runs I'll edit a second one into the game for double mob-melting hilarity. :P
Think the key for that gun is the lower armour threshold, and the weirdness of the energy weapon mechanic. This means it will do massive damage to just about everybody. And I only have 4-5 pips into energy weapons.... :D Doubling up on it would be quite overkill, but probably fun.

That gun, sniper rifles and assault rifles are so much better than anything else, it's not even funny, so I see why some people go all out on that. But despite handguns and shotguns being rather weak, I'm still having fun with them, and it's nice to share the ammo around. And with the gamma ray blaster we now have three capable fighters, so are coping well in combat. Throw in rocket launchers and granades, and most fights are not too much of an issue.

Looks like the weaponsmithing girl ain't coming back, however, so I need to get somebody else on that task.
Now that I have come to the second half of the game, I must say I don't think the game is truly finished. It looks to be in some type of late beta stage. This is disappointing because the idea of the Kickstarters is that the developers can properly finish the game before releasing it to the crowds. It has probably affected reviews too, which will to some degree limit sales.

I hope things will be better when Torment comes out. They shouldn't release a game that isn't finished.
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Pangaea666: Now that I have come to the second half of the game, I must say I don't think the game is truly finished. It looks to be in some type of late beta stage. This is disappointing because the idea of the Kickstarters is that the developers can properly finish the game before releasing it to the crowds. It has probably affected reviews too, which will to some degree limit sales.

I hope things will be better when Torment comes out. They shouldn't release a game that isn't finished.
Yeah, agreed. I'm not surprised there are bugs, as that will happen in any game, no matter how much time they take. But I am surprised at how many bugs are left in Hollywood. Next patch is coming soon though (probably in the next week or ten days) and should clear up a lot of them.

I'm encouraged that Obsidian is delaying the release of Pillars of Eternity just for this reason.
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Pangaea666: Now that I have come to the second half of the game, I must say I don't think the game is truly finished. It looks to be in some type of late beta stage. This is disappointing because the idea of the Kickstarters is that the developers can properly finish the game before releasing it to the crowds. It has probably affected reviews too, which will to some degree limit sales.

I hope things will be better when Torment comes out. They shouldn't release a game that isn't finished.
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Coelocanth: Yeah, agreed. I'm not surprised there are bugs, as that will happen in any game, no matter how much time they take. But I am surprised at how many bugs are left in Hollywood. Next patch is coming soon though (probably in the next week or ten days) and should clear up a lot of them.

I'm encouraged that Obsidian is delaying the release of Pillars of Eternity just for this reason.
Amusingly the patch was released just about when I made that post, so hopefully it will come here on GOG pretty soon too. I'm only fairly early in California, and there have been quite a lot of bugs, and the plethora of spelling or editing errors is more than a little jarring. Hopefully the game will look a lot better now with the new patch out.

Unfortunately I've run into a problem where I cannot have more than 6 party members, and I doubt that is solved in the patch, unless it was already a known bug before I mailed them about it. Not too keen on replaying hours upon hours, which may be futile if the same thing happens again.

I'm honestly a bit puzzled why they released the game in its current state (and I got to it when it was already on patch number 2).
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Pangaea666: Amusingly the patch was released just about when I made that post, so hopefully it will come here on GOG pretty soon too.
Yeah, I popped over to the inXile boards after my previous post and saw the patch was released as well. Hope GOG's on it asap, as I have two parties ready to hit Hollywood right now.

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Pangaea666: Unfortunately I've run into a problem where I cannot have more than 6 party members, and I doubt that is solved in the patch, unless it was already a known bug before I mailed them about it. Not too keen on replaying hours upon hours, which may be futile if the same thing happens again.
That's a weird one. I've not seen it reported before in my time cruising the boards here or on inXile's forums.
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drealmer7: My biggest advice is to not listen to all the advice out there. Read the manual. Make a balanced group. Figure out what you want and need yourself. It's really a strong roleplaying game and I HIGHLY recommend simply creating 4 characters that you like. I've seen way more builds from people that baffle me than make sense to me. I regularly go "yeah ok sure that could work, but not how I would do it" so this game really lends to just playing characters how YOU want to play them.

My 2nd advice is once you've mostly figured out the 4 characters you want to start with, have a look at a list of all the recruits and decide which ones will fit your group best and what final tweaking you may want to do based on what characters you intend to have in the game.

Try not to have redundancies too much and tell yourself it is okay to start over and re-tweak your characters a few times once you get a better feel for the game. I replayed Ag Center 3 times before finalizing my build and am much much happier for it.

I play on Ranger difficulty and it's not very hard IMO. Easier than Fallout on Normal difficulty.
I have to agree with this (at least for how I play these sorts of games)

There's a lot of emphasis on min-maxing, which is fine for some people, but I've been playing RPGs for over twenty years now and one thing I've picked up is that hardly anybody wants to go to the trouble of designing, coding, and releasing a game where the player is destined to lose unless they do things just so. It's not a good business plan, and most of these companies want to make money by selling their games.

That is, no matter what "mistakes" I make at the start (or even during play), I can almost always finish the game. Maybe not "win" it and roll all over every enemy and get every last thing, but I can finish the game.

You can drive yourself nuts trying to make your party or character perfect. Or, you can have someone you like and muddle on through. Last time I checked, unless your sharing everything online, you're not competing against anyone with single player games.

(This attitude of mine also works with mistakes during game play. Rather than reloading a save, I usually just go on and take the penalty -- except for deaths! That feels more realistic to me and creates its own challenges!)