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Wasteland seriesBleed outs are rather easy(21 posts)(21 posts)
(21 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 23, 2014
One of my observations is that it's a bit too easy for characters to die. I assume that I'm doing something wrong here, because I've found that even with the game set to the easiest level that characters are liable to die pretty much immediately. A couple of lucky shots from raiders and if you don't have an appropriate surgical kit and character with surgical skill you're screwed.

I admit that that probably is realistic, but it's rather annoying being forced to shoot from far away, especially early on in the game when the PCs aren't very good at shooting.
Posted September 23, 2014
I'm about 2/3 finished with ag center (I think), and I haven't been challenged much. My supply of med kits is steadily growing. I'm playing on one notch higher than easy (I forget what it's called).

Maybe you can change your tactics? Or devote more points to weapons? Or... I haven't bought or found any armor yet, so I'm still running around naked.
Posted September 23, 2014
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alcaray: I'm about 2/3 finished with ag center (I think), and I haven't been challenged much. My supply of med kits is steadily growing. I'm playing on one notch higher than easy (I forget what it's called).

Maybe you can change your tactics? Or devote more points to weapons? Or... I haven't bought or found any armor yet, so I'm still running around naked.
The issue seems to be that if my characters get hit at all, that it can rapidly turn ugly. You can't really avoid the random encounters as the guys get incredibly hurt if you don't manage to escape. I've literally lost half my PCs in one unsuccessful attempt at avoiding an encounter. I got into the actual combat with 2 of my dudes already bleeding out and no way of saving either one of them.

It's an interesting mechanic, but it concerns me that it's so easy to get killed early on if you're not already well versed in tactics for squad based combat.

I dunno, I like the game, but the learning curve at the beginning is rather steep, even at lower difficulty levels. Ironically, the lowest level seems to be even worse as I'm getting no loot like that.
Posted September 24, 2014
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hedwards: One of my observations is that it's a bit too easy for characters to die. I assume that I'm doing something wrong here, because I've found that even with the game set to the easiest level that characters are liable to die pretty much immediately. A couple of lucky shots from raiders and if you don't have an appropriate surgical kit and character with surgical skill you're screwed.

I admit that that probably is realistic, but it's rather annoying being forced to shoot from far away, especially early on in the game when the PCs aren't very good at shooting.
Yes, it is easy to get a character killed at the start when they have less than 50HP, so be careful. They're fragile little things at that stage.

There is a learning curve, but it's not steep. And after 50HP you won't think about death again until way later. You characters are basically invincible at the lower difficulty levels after they've reached 50HP.

I suspect the idea behind the learning curve is that if people played XCOM:EU they'll know how to play this and if they didn't play XCOM, well it's really a pretty simple system, but requires a few hours of your time to learn.
Posted September 24, 2014
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hedwards: One of my observations is that it's a bit too easy for characters to die. I assume that I'm doing something wrong here, because I've found that even with the game set to the easiest level that characters are liable to die pretty much immediately. A couple of lucky shots from raiders and if you don't have an appropriate surgical kit and character with surgical skill you're screwed.

I admit that that probably is realistic, but it's rather annoying being forced to shoot from far away, especially early on in the game when the PCs aren't very good at shooting.
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Atlantico: Yes, it is easy to get a character killed at the start when they have less than 50HP, so be careful. They're fragile little things at that stage.

There is a learning curve, but it's not steep. And after 50HP you won't think about death again until way later. You characters are basically invincible at the lower difficulty levels after they've reached 50HP.

I suspect the idea behind the learning curve is that if people played XCOM:EU they'll know how to play this and if they didn't play XCOM, well it's really a pretty simple system, but requires a few hours of your time to learn.
I suppose, but it's bad game design. I guess it's not really hard so much as horribly RNG bound and I'm sure when I get higher level characters with more points on their weapons that things will get better, but it's annoying to have to keep reloading because the RNG isn't being kind.
Posted September 24, 2014
I've never tried to avoid an encounter. I like the xp you get for killing things.
Posted September 24, 2014
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Atlantico: Yes, it is easy to get a character killed at the start when they have less than 50HP, so be careful. They're fragile little things at that stage.

There is a learning curve, but it's not steep. And after 50HP you won't think about death again until way later. You characters are basically invincible at the lower difficulty levels after they've reached 50HP.

I suspect the idea behind the learning curve is that if people played XCOM:EU they'll know how to play this and if they didn't play XCOM, well it's really a pretty simple system, but requires a few hours of your time to learn.
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hedwards: I suppose, but it's bad game design. I guess it's not really hard so much as horribly RNG bound and I'm sure when I get higher level characters with more points on their weapons that things will get better, but it's annoying to have to keep reloading because the RNG isn't being kind.
It is not bad game design. In fact, I didn't even see the first character death until Damonta with 200HP characters, you just have to be careful and think before you act.

The very fact that it works and will keep you alive, would indicate that this is a very good game design. It certainly is not just RNG, but there will always be random numbers in an RPG.

But an RPG is a patient man's game, a thinking man's game.

You will learn how to win encounters at any level. Without reloading. But you have to learn how to manage your group, your character traits, your strategy.

But literally my first reload because of character death was at Damonta. That's at 200HP, level 18ish. It doesn't get easier, on the contrary it gets harder.
Posted September 24, 2014
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hedwards: I suppose, but it's bad game design. I guess it's not really hard so much as horribly RNG bound and I'm sure when I get higher level characters with more points on their weapons that things will get better, but it's annoying to have to keep reloading because the RNG isn't being kind.
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Atlantico: It is not bad game design. In fact, I didn't even see the first character death until Damonta with 200HP characters, you just have to be careful and think before you act.

The very fact that it works and will keep you alive, would indicate that this is a very good game design. It certainly is not just RNG, but there will always be random numbers in an RPG.

But an RPG is a patient man's game, a thinking man's game.

You will learn how to win encounters at any level. Without reloading. But you have to learn how to manage your group, your character traits, your strategy.

But literally my first reload because of character death was at Damonta. That's at 200HP, level 18ish. It doesn't get easier, on the contrary it gets harder.
Well to be honest, Damonta is a big jump in difficulty. Those Slicer Dicer robots are pretty crazy.

Anyway, some tips to survive combat;
- try to make sure to have 2 characters who have some surgeon skill. That way if your doctor goes unconscious, you can revive him.
- try to begin combat by sniping 1 of the enemies with your best long range weapon. Taking out 1 enemy before the fight starts is a big help.
- for tough fights, use the separate group button, and position each of your rangers so they're in cover and at appropriate range from the enemy depending on the weapon they use.

Oh, and make sure to recruit Angela Deth if you have real trouble. She's basically there to make sure you can get past the early levels without losing anyone, as she can pretty much solo every early fight. She also adds quite a bit to the story imo.
She in the ranger citadel, off to the left side of the exit.
Post edited September 24, 2014 by mystral
Posted September 24, 2014
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Atlantico: It is not bad game design. In fact, I didn't even see the first character death until Damonta with 200HP characters, you just have to be careful and think before you act.

The very fact that it works and will keep you alive, would indicate that this is a very good game design. It certainly is not just RNG, but there will always be random numbers in an RPG.

But an RPG is a patient man's game, a thinking man's game.

You will learn how to win encounters at any level. Without reloading. But you have to learn how to manage your group, your character traits, your strategy.

But literally my first reload because of character death was at Damonta. That's at 200HP, level 18ish. It doesn't get easier, on the contrary it gets harder.
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mystral: Well to be honest, Damonta is a big jump in difficulty. Those Slicer Dicer robots are pretty crazy.

Anyway, some tips to survive combat;
- try to make sure to have 2 characters who have some surgeon skill. That way if your doctor goes unconscious, you can revive him.
- try to begin combat by sniping 1 of the enemies with your best long range weapon. Taking out 1 enemy before the fight starts is a big help.
- for tough fights, use the separate group button, and position each of your rangers so they're in cover and at appropriate range from the enemy depending on the weapon they use.

Oh, and make sure to recruit Angela Deth if you have real trouble. She's basically there to make sure you can get past the early levels without losing anyone, as she can pretty much solo every early fight. She also adds quite a bit to the story imo.
She in the ranger citadel, off to the left side of the exit.
I'm already doing that second one and I'm talking about really early in the game where the characters are still lacking in skills. Angela isn't available yet and it looks like I'm going to have to do a ton of grinding before the Ag Center or High pool become realistic as you lose a ton of HP every time you get hit.

As far as that first suggestion goes, the problem there is that you run only get 2 surgical kits per surgeon and they run out really quickly if you're not lucky.

I'm honestly not even sure what Atlantico is on about how there's no problem here. The more people talk with me in here the more convinced I am that there's a problem with the way the difficulty levels were set up.

I mean, WTF, the "easiest" level is harder than the next harder level!
Posted September 24, 2014
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hedwards: [...] I'm already doing that second one and I'm talking about really early in the game where the characters are still lacking in skills. Angela isn't available yet and it looks like I'm going to have to do a ton of grinding before the Ag Center or High pool become realistic as you lose a ton of HP every time you get hit.
[...]
Angela is available for recruiting one minute into the game! When you are at the marker to enter the world map for the first time, turn left (down the screen with default orientation). She is standing there mourning Ace and wanting to come with your rangers to look for clues.
Posted September 24, 2014
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hedwards: [...] I'm already doing that second one and I'm talking about really early in the game where the characters are still lacking in skills. Angela isn't available yet and it looks like I'm going to have to do a ton of grinding before the Ag Center or High pool become realistic as you lose a ton of HP every time you get hit.
[...]
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Sufyan: Angela is available for recruiting one minute into the game! When you are at the marker to enter the world map for the first time, turn left (down the screen with default orientation). She is standing there mourning Ace and wanting to come with your rangers to look for clues.
Interesting. One of the things I'm noticing is that the game seems to be kind of inconsistent about the hints and opportunities that are presented. It wasn't until like my dozenth attempt at starting over that I had those other rangers asking for the can.

I like the game, but it does seem to make an awful lot of assumptions about the experience that players have had prior to playing. Which for higher levels is fine, but expecting beginners to tolerate the excessively fragile nature of characters early on, seems a bit much.
Posted September 24, 2014
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Sufyan: Angela is available for recruiting one minute into the game! When you are at the marker to enter the world map for the first time, turn left (down the screen with default orientation). She is standing there mourning Ace and wanting to come with your rangers to look for clues.
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hedwards: Interesting. One of the things I'm noticing is that the game seems to be kind of inconsistent about the hints and opportunities
Welcome to the old, very old school. Wasteland 1 is similar.
Posted September 24, 2014
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hedwards: One of my observations is that it's a bit too easy for characters to die. I assume that I'm doing something wrong here, because I've found that even with the game set to the easiest level that characters are liable to die pretty much immediately. A couple of lucky shots from raiders and if you don't have an appropriate surgical kit and character with surgical skill you're screwed.

I admit that that probably is realistic, but it's rather annoying being forced to shoot from far away, especially early on in the game when the PCs aren't very good at shooting.
You need to practice, on the Hard difficult (Ranger I think) I had to try each fight 4-7 times on the lowest levels (Now I truly hate Bug Bunny) but after getting some levels and understand better the system I don't reload. You need be able to do as much damage you can before the meele begins, if the enemies are ranged, then you need to move from cover to cover, for avoid got damaged, or lead the bad boys to ambush.
Posted September 24, 2014
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mystral: Well to be honest, Damonta is a big jump in difficulty. Those Slicer Dicer robots are pretty crazy.

Anyway, some tips to survive combat;
- try to make sure to have 2 characters who have some surgeon skill. That way if your doctor goes unconscious, you can revive him.
- try to begin combat by sniping 1 of the enemies with your best long range weapon. Taking out 1 enemy before the fight starts is a big help.
- for tough fights, use the separate group button, and position each of your rangers so they're in cover and at appropriate range from the enemy depending on the weapon they use.

Oh, and make sure to recruit Angela Deth if you have real trouble. She's basically there to make sure you can get past the early levels without losing anyone, as she can pretty much solo every early fight. She also adds quite a bit to the story imo.
She in the ranger citadel, off to the left side of the exit.
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hedwards: I'm already doing that second one and I'm talking about really early in the game where the characters are still lacking in skills. Angela isn't available yet and it looks like I'm going to have to do a ton of grinding before the Ag Center or High pool become realistic as you lose a ton of HP every time you get hit.

As far as that first suggestion goes, the problem there is that you run only get 2 surgical kits per surgeon and they run out really quickly if you're not lucky.

I'm honestly not even sure what Atlantico is on about how there's no problem here. The more people talk with me in here the more convinced I am that there's a problem with the way the difficulty levels were set up.

I mean, WTF, the "easiest" level is harder than the next harder level!
There is no problem here: I've was sleepwalking through encounters until Damonta. Then I had to mildly concentrate to wipe out all enemies.

I'm honestly not even sure what you are talking about.
Posted September 24, 2014
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mystral: Well to be honest, Damonta is a big jump in difficulty. Those Slicer Dicer robots are pretty crazy.

Anyway, some tips to survive combat;
- try to make sure to have 2 characters who have some surgeon skill. That way if your doctor goes unconscious, you can revive him.
- try to begin combat by sniping 1 of the enemies with your best long range weapon. Taking out 1 enemy before the fight starts is a big help.
- for tough fights, use the separate group button, and position each of your rangers so they're in cover and at appropriate range from the enemy depending on the weapon they use.

Oh, and make sure to recruit Angela Deth if you have real trouble. She's basically there to make sure you can get past the early levels without losing anyone, as she can pretty much solo every early fight. She also adds quite a bit to the story imo.
She in the ranger citadel, off to the left side of the exit.
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hedwards: I'm already doing that second one and I'm talking about really early in the game where the characters are still lacking in skills. Angela isn't available yet and it looks like I'm going to have to do a ton of grinding before the Ag Center or High pool become realistic as you lose a ton of HP every time you get hit.

As far as that first suggestion goes, the problem there is that you run only get 2 surgical kits per surgeon and they run out really quickly if you're not lucky.

I'm honestly not even sure what Atlantico is on about how there's no problem here. The more people talk with me in here the more convinced I am that there's a problem with the way the difficulty levels were set up.

I mean, WTF, the "easiest" level is harder than the next harder level!
Angela was available right at the start of the game for me, both times I started a new game (on the 2nd and 3rd difficulty level).

Frankly, I didn't find combat that difficult early on, and I've almost never used a surgical kit until Damonta (where I had to use 3 or 4). Then again, I did take Angela along.
Are you sure you're playing on the easiest difficulty level? Maybe it's bugged and it's set to be more difficult than it should be. Maybe you should try a new game on the "seasoned" level and see if you still have trouble with fights.
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Wasteland seriesBleed outs are rather easy(21 posts)(21 posts)
(21 posts)