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That's odd, since I've had one of my characters die only once, at the very end of the Ag Center. I find the game so easy that I'm inclined to increase the difficulty from Seasoned to whatever is harder. I just steamroll through everything. If I can get a sniper positioned on the high ground, my other characters have almost nothing else to do.

If you have problems with bleeding out, may I suggest that you take Rose from the Ag Center with you? She has excellent Surgeon stat.
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hedwards: I'm already doing that second one and I'm talking about really early in the game where the characters are still lacking in skills. Angela isn't available yet and it looks like I'm going to have to do a ton of grinding before the Ag Center or High pool become realistic as you lose a ton of HP every time you get hit.

As far as that first suggestion goes, the problem there is that you run only get 2 surgical kits per surgeon and they run out really quickly if you're not lucky.

I'm honestly not even sure what Atlantico is on about how there's no problem here. The more people talk with me in here the more convinced I am that there's a problem with the way the difficulty levels were set up.

I mean, WTF, the "easiest" level is harder than the next harder level!
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mystral: Angela was available right at the start of the game for me, both times I started a new game (on the 2nd and 3rd difficulty level).

Frankly, I didn't find combat that difficult early on, and I've almost never used a surgical kit until Damonta (where I had to use 3 or 4). Then again, I did take Angela along.
Are you sure you're playing on the easiest difficulty level? Maybe it's bugged and it's set to be more difficult than it should be. Maybe you should try a new game on the "seasoned" level and see if you still have trouble with fights.
It's a game design mistake. Without Angela, the game is ridiculously hard, but you have to know that she exists and you have to know to look for her there. Without her, you spend enough time in combat that you're going to have PCs dieing no mater what you do.

It's not a very gentle way of starting the player off and at least at the easiest level there ought to be something to clue people into the possibility that there's something over there. The goat at least has one of the rangers nudging you towards him and the can. Angela is just sort of standing off screen where you're not going to see her until you've already seen the Citadel door as well as the gateway to the main map.

I like the game, but the difference between seeing and not seeing here is unreasonably large. Especially considering that at that point in the game, players are likely to be raring to go out and explore the wastes.
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revanbh: That's odd, since I've had one of my characters die only once, at the very end of the Ag Center. I find the game so easy that I'm inclined to increase the difficulty from Seasoned to whatever is harder. I just steamroll through everything. If I can get a sniper positioned on the high ground, my other characters have almost nothing else to do.

If you have problems with bleeding out, may I suggest that you take Rose from the Ag Center with you? She has excellent Surgeon stat.
I couldn't. That's part of the problem, without Angela, I was getting my ass handed to me if I dared to step foot in the Ag Center or Highpool.

Which is why I was complaining, the basic game as designed is really punishing if you're foolish enough to take their predefined characters and not find Angela.

The supreme nature of the skills over the stats isn't something that I expected and when I started to take that into consideration, things did improve, but it's completely counter-intuitive to expect.
Post edited September 25, 2014 by hedwards
re: "...but you have to know that she exists and you have to know to look for her there."

I think that a main part of playing crpgs is looking for things and finding them for yourself. I, in particular, don't want to be told where I have to go and what I have to do. Of course there's a risk I might miss something important. But if the game can't be failed, then it isn't worth playing - in my opinion. Anyhow, that's what saves and restores are for.

I appreciate that there are all kinds of players out there and some of them hate this aspect of a game. I think that people like that should wait a couple of weeks for the walkthroughs to be published.
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mystral: Angela was available right at the start of the game for me, both times I started a new game (on the 2nd and 3rd difficulty level).

Frankly, I didn't find combat that difficult early on, and I've almost never used a surgical kit until Damonta (where I had to use 3 or 4). Then again, I did take Angela along.
Are you sure you're playing on the easiest difficulty level? Maybe it's bugged and it's set to be more difficult than it should be. Maybe you should try a new game on the "seasoned" level and see if you still have trouble with fights.
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hedwards: It's a game design mistake. Without Angela, the game is ridiculously hard, but you have to know that she exists and you have to know to look for her there. Without her, you spend enough time in combat that you're going to have PCs dieing no mater what you do.

It's not a very gentle way of starting the player off and at least at the easiest level there ought to be something to clue people into the possibility that there's something over there. The goat at least has one of the rangers nudging you towards him and the can. Angela is just sort of standing off screen where you're not going to see her until you've already seen the Citadel door as well as the gateway to the main map.

I like the game, but the difference between seeing and not seeing here is unreasonably large. Especially considering that at that point in the game, players are likely to be raring to go out and explore the wastes.
I can understand where you're coming from and I agree that Angela makes too much of a difference in combat early on. However, Wasteland 2 is supposed to be a callback to old-school RPGs, which were also very unforgiving and fairly luck-dependent early on. That doesn't mean it's good game design, of course, just nostalgia speaking.
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hedwards: One of my observations is that it's a bit too easy for characters to die. I assume that I'm doing something wrong here, because I've found that even with the game set to the easiest level that characters are liable to die pretty much immediately.
I would say, you assume that correctly. ;p

Now, honestly, I haven't lost any of my characters, so far (apart from that one occasion, where I wanted to see, how far I can get through a high-radiation field - it wasn't too far). ;)

Just to give you some cornerstones of my experience, to compare them with your own:

- I'm also playing on the easiest setting.

- First thing I picked up, was the shovel at Ace's burial...there is a lot of useful stuff to be found buried in the ground - all over the game.

- I haven't hesitated a fraction of a second, when Angela asked if she can join my team (of course, I knew who she was from the first Wasteland) - and of course I searched the whole area - but not because I knew, she would be there, but because that's what you're supposed to do in RPGs.

Let me tell you one thing - if you're not looking into every nook and cranny, you'll miss a lot of very useful stuff.

- I haven't created my own characters - I just took four of the pre-made ones (Cold-Eye, Pills, Cherry-Bomb and Fade).
Those have a fine selection of skills, which come very handy in the game.
Though I have to say, I almost regret not making characters with more strength (comes handy for carrying some of the better available armour - but then again...so far none of my team has died - regardless of the armour).

- I'm not very far into the game (just did the Radio Tower, Highpool, AG Center, Railroad Nomads, now at the start of the Leve Lup Mine).

I'd say, the game is far from perfect, there are a lot of things, I don't like that much, but I really cannot share your complaints about "dying is too easy".
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hedwards: It's a game design mistake. Without Angela, the game is ridiculously hard, but you have to know that she exists and you have to know to look for her there. Without her, you spend enough time in combat that you're going to have PCs dieing no mater what you do.

It's not a very gentle way of starting the player off and at least at the easiest level there ought to be something to clue people into the possibility that there's something over there. The goat at least has one of the rangers nudging you towards him and the can. Angela is just sort of standing off screen where you're not going to see her until you've already seen the Citadel door as well as the gateway to the main map.

I like the game, but the difference between seeing and not seeing here is unreasonably large. Especially considering that at that point in the game, players are likely to be raring to go out and explore the wastes.
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mystral: I can understand where you're coming from and I agree that Angela makes too much of a difference in combat early on. However, Wasteland 2 is supposed to be a callback to old-school RPGs, which were also very unforgiving and fairly luck-dependent early on. That doesn't mean it's good game design, of course, just nostalgia speaking.
I get that, but it does make me wonder why they have a mode that's ostensibly for people that aren't yet familiar with the genre that makes those sorts of assumptions.

Now that I've got Angela and I'm on a bit of a roll, the game does seem a too easy, but I think that they should have provided a bit more clues at that point to get players on board with that idea. At least for that easiest difficulty level.

Obviously, anybody playing on Super Jerk deserves whatever pain they get, but game modes for people that aren't assumed to have a lot of experience really ought to have some form of a hint.

And yes, you're absolutely right about exploration, I was just floored by how huge missing her was and the complete lack of hints about that. Later on in the game, I think that's reasonable, the more I play the more I start to get the logic, but early on is rather cruel.
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hedwards: One of my observations is that it's a bit too easy for characters to die. I assume that I'm doing something wrong here, because I've found that even with the game set to the easiest level that characters are liable to die pretty much immediately.
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BreOl72: I would say, you assume that correctly. ;p

Now, honestly, I haven't lost any of my characters, so far (apart from that one occasion, where I wanted to see, how far I can get through a high-radiation field - it wasn't too far). ;)

Just to give you some cornerstones of my experience, to compare them with your own:

- I'm also playing on the easiest setting.

- First thing I picked up, was the shovel at Ace's burial...there is a lot of useful stuff to be found buried in the ground - all over the game.

- I haven't hesitated a fraction of a second, when Angela asked if she can join my team (of course, I knew who she was from the first Wasteland) - and of course I searched the whole area - but not because I knew, she would be there, but because that's what you're supposed to do in RPGs.

Let me tell you one thing - if you're not looking into every nook and cranny, you'll miss a lot of very useful stuff.

- I haven't created my own characters - I just took four of the pre-made ones (Cold-Eye, Pills, Cherry-Bomb and Fade).
Those have a fine selection of skills, which come very handy in the game.
Though I have to say, I almost regret not making characters with more strength (comes handy for carrying some of the better available armour - but then again...so far none of my team has died - regardless of the armour).

- I'm not very far into the game (just did the Radio Tower, Highpool, AG Center, Railroad Nomads, now at the start of the Leve Lup Mine).

I'd say, the game is far from perfect, there are a lot of things, I don't like that much, but I really cannot share your complaints about "dying is too easy".
If we were talking about the higher difficulty levels and/or it were later in the game, I think you'd have a point. But, this is an even bigger problem at the easiest difficulty level for people that wouldn't know to keep an eye out for loot at every opportunity.

I'd still not know she was there because the game doesn't provide any hints that there's anybody else there, she starts off screen and I don't recall seeing anybody hinting about Ace's girlfriend. I'll have to take a look about that, as I don't recall what they said the first time and the last half dozen times I was clicking as quickly as possible to get through the dialog.
Post edited September 25, 2014 by hedwards