Ming Zhao is the most difficult fight. Unless you are Tremere. Unless you messed up your character sheet, or invested in a completely wrong set of skills/disciplines, you can beat her without too much hassle. Gangrel especially, since i played one before, even if that was my first time and had no idea of how they work, is crazy sick powerful, i 'd rank the damned bloody thing right next to a Tremere! Using the XP harvesting guides and the Tome training exploit, plus investing into "tutors" and micromanaging effectively your points, leads to a sickly powerful build with max stats in main areas and all disciplines opened, minus only the last from animal summoning (which you cannot open for only 1 point of XP).

Warform with the defensive buff opened and the relative skills maxed, is a beast. When your health gets low, gulp down the blood packs (the elder ones, first, the strong). Health goes down again, gulp down the blood packs (blue blood ones, second, the medium). Keep loosing health and just use the low quality bags, one by one. Get close to dying and use the Tzimisce Artifact that Pisha gave you. Needless to say, you have collected ALL artifacts throughout the game and nicely enjoy their passive buffs... If you haven't beaten her by then, either you have messed up character sheet, or you have messed up reflexes. You can't loose to anything, with a nicely trained Gangrel.

If you go melee, that Tal Mahe Ra blade alone will do something. Flamethrower will also do. Needless to say, you have used the Romero teaching you firearms and have raised firearms at least to level 3. Man, you have to TRY HARD, in order to loose with a Gangrel... If you choose history, choose the Adda-Gangrel. Don't ask anything and remember to say thanks, after you beat the game!

Hm, I usually end up playing as Brujah and I never had any problems with that fight. I just shoot the crap out of her with an auto-shotgun. Those deal an incredible amount of damage and push her back, so most of the time she can't even reach me.

@universalwolf Sadly I gave up all together. I have to many other games and things to do to start over from scratch, or hell even from a far earlier save. So this game shall remain abandoned by me for all time.

@kingbradley7 I'm not sure if your post is at purely just directed at DDDespair or both of us so ignore my message if your message is just aimed at him. Sadly I have almost no items or weapons. My skill points all went into pretty much pointless things because I found the game so simple to get threw. I didn't feel any need to put points into ranged combat or stock up on anything at all when combat was so simple or stealth seemed to work so well. So I literally cant do most of what you've suggested. I hit like a wet noodle with no items, no real amount of ammo or weapons, without the points in ranged or much of anything else useful.

Also Tome training exploit? I would never use an exploit. The fact that I will not cheat my way past a boss so close to the end of the game to just finish it should show that.

So again, I have no blood packs. I've tried and tried again and at my best with no items and pretty much no ammo and terrible skill points I've gotten her to about 30% health left. I have found it impossible to get her any lower when I cant even afford to get hit, yet melee is my only real option. I've taken a number of the suggestions given and have gone back for the flamethrower after I was told it does massive damage. The was a true waste of my time getting it after said suggestion as it does far far less damage than I was lead to believe it would do. Probably to do with my lack of ranged points?

No, the flamethrower is independent fo that. But with modern computers you need to fire it in really minimalistic bursts, as short as possible, then wait for the burning damage to go down, and then fire it again. Continuous fire will just waste the fuel...

Hmmm I wasn't doing continuous fire but perhaps I didn't want long enough for burn damage. I shall give that a try.

Could you define modern?

I fire continuous and get some but not a lot of Ming damage; just wondering if I could do better. Everyone seems to have a different idea on what is modern :)

I have an Intel i5 3.0 and when I press the fire button on the flamethrower for too long, it will run through almost all the fuel in a few seconds which probably counts as one hit only on Ming's side...

Well, I hope that's not true. If you've only played Gangrel, the game has a lot to offer that you haven't yet seen.

I suggest giving it a rest until you feel refreshed, then taking another crack at it. If you think you're only going to play it one more time, play a Malkavian.

Now that you know about the difficulty spike that MX presents, you'll have the whole game to prepare and I have no doubt you'll be able to overcome it.

OK, let's try this a different way. How much, estimated percentage damage does ming take with your machine and small bursts? Im my case, Ming goes down about 20%. I have an Intel i7-2600.

I just tested it on my old dual core AMD and you are right, with two tanks Ming's health goes down about 25%, even when using small bursts. But it is independent of the Firearms stat and does not spawn clones! Afterwards I suggest to attack her with the super shotgun or the Stey AUG, use firearms as long as possible as these will not spawn clones and finish her off with melee only in the end.

With my build, the HP that I took off that thing was so low that it would take about 20-25 minutes of non-stop clicking to kill it (flamethrowers and all).. if it just stayed in one place without attacking. So I hit godmode and gave myself flamethrowers until it died.

There are challenging bosses and there are bullet sponges in enclosed spaces that can hit you through walls of the tiny cover that exists. Had no problems with any of the other enemies in the game.

Well, its the hardest fight in the game, and thats saying something.

Its pretty easy if you have ranged 10 (or close to 10) and a good selection of firearms (and full ammo). The Flamethrower takes away about half her hitpoints, then the tough guns kill of the rest pretty quickly, too.

Gangel going all brawl and nothing else is normal though. I dont play Gangrel that often and dont remember how Ming went the last time. I do however remember that the other boss was a PITA on a Gangrel since you really have to use ranged against this one. There is a way to force melee but it doesnt work that well. The game is kind of buggy in that regard.

---- Well if you intentionally throw away your money like that, then its obviously your own fault you're broke. Is it not ? Prostitutes are expensive and you dont get much money in this game. I'm super careful with my spending and end up at about 9-11k$ at the end of the game, before blowing it on preparation for the final bosses.

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For replenishing your bloodpoints between mission you either go the Seduction road. You need Seduction 4 for Santa Monica, there are two blood dolls in The Asylum. Seduction 5 is needed for the blood doll in The Confession in Downtown. Seduction 6 is needed for the blood doll in Asp Hole in Hollywood. Save before talking to each blood doll for the first time in case you get their dialogue wrong.

By the way the blood doll in the lower level of The Asylum and the two blooddolls in Downtown and Hollywood all have the same character model, with just different hair color etc, so theres a fan theory they are actually sisters.

Then you can stop. In Chinatown there is the brothel which you save Kiki from, as the first main quest. It has four prostitutes and you can feed from them any time you want. Leave and reenter, and they again all have all bloodpoints back.

Just for completeness - with Seduction 7 you can ask any prostitute and they'll do it for free. Except that one prostitute in Versuvius in Hollywood, she always asks for money, but only for the first time. And with Seduction 8 you can get the (female) blood doll in Chinatown. I dont know what the male blood doll in Chinatown needs, but its much lower.

There is also in Santa Monica Dr. Malcolm in the medical clinic. In the newest unofficial patches you actually have to first feed from the nurse next to him, otherwise you get a Masquerade violation. But Malcolm doesnt notice you feed from the nurse and once she is in trance, you also can feed from Malcolm. If you then leave and reenter, they are both at max bloodpoints again.

The alternative to the seduction road, and the usual strategy, is simply hunting for blood. That means you have to find people on the street that are alone and can be fed upon. Beware that while policemen have a lot of bloodpoints, they dont regenerate. As a rule always sneak before starting to feed, that substantly improves your chances not to get spotted by third parties.

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Also you dont have to buy the flamethrower, you can just pick it up in the first level of the Sabbat Hotel. Its next to that woman hanged over a burning trash can in the lowest level, right where you kill those two many body part monsters you firsst encountered in the Nosferatu Warrens in Hollywood. Thats for the plus patch, but I think the regular patch also has the flamethrower in the Hotel, just in another place.

--- Then you might be completely stuck.

I have lost quite a few of my characters over the years because I misskilled them too badly and progress was just impossible.

That can definitely happen in this game.

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Its not nigh invulnerable, its just invulnerable. You can kill it, but only through secondary means, not through combat.

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I dont get this comment.

Why exactly would you need to follow any specific sequence for consuming bloodpacks ?

I would take a normal one if my health is low but my bloodpoints are still quite high, a blue one if the bloodpoints are also pretty low, and the elder ones are for "oh sh** I'm almost dead !" situations.

Also I use the item from Pisha first, obviously, if possible. Its free, after all. And you do enough fighting between the bosses that it will be replenished. Heck it regenerates during the second boss because theres constantly other mobs attacking you as well.

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Ooooh whow then its even worse overpowered than I thought.

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We are all rooting for you.