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Hello :)

This is my first Ultima game. I would like to know some more information before using the shrine.

How many times can I use a shrine before I'm unable to advance? Do I get "x" number of shrine uses per level? Do they reset on level up?

Can I see how many uses I have left?

Does it depend on the specific shrine?


I am asking because I would rather not use up all the points and then be unable to finish the game.

Thanks!
Post edited March 22, 2020 by Maxmetpt
welcome to the ultima series

sadly you aren't given the number of uses you have left in the 1st underworld

though when you move on to ultima underworld II
it does display how many skill points you have available for training


as to specific shrines. i have seen no difference in results using any of the shrines

i'm not entirely sure but from my many playthoughs
it seems like you gain at least 1 shrine use each level

and additionally gain another as you earn xp
(not sure what the exact amount of xp for each
my best guess is intervals of either 100, 200, or 500 xp)
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Maxmetpt: Hello :)

This is my first Ultima game. I would like to know some more information before using the shrine.

How many times can I use a shrine before I'm unable to advance? Do I get "x" number of shrine uses per level? Do they reset on level up?

Can I see how many uses I have left?

Does it depend on the specific shrine?

I am asking because I would rather not use up all the points and then be unable to finish the game.

Thanks!
In order to advance you have to keep leveling up. The manual (page 20) is not clear on how many mantras you can chant per level. From my experience I think I got to recite 3 mantras/level.
I don't think you need specific skill sets in order to beat the game since there are several ways to achieve your goals. My advice would be to take things slow. As you progress in the game you learn more mantras and you can decide which is best for your character (I thought the Repair skill quite useful, but a Mage may not need it as much).

In fact, the first time I beat the game (when I was still a kid) I hardly recited any mantras at all. I just kept beating the monsters to a pulp (or fleeing from them) and moving forward :P
The number of times you can use a shrine is bound to the amount of xp, that your character gets. Since this game has an xp cap (around 9600 xp, that is level 16), there is a finite number of times, that you can successfully pray at a shrine. But it is enough to (almost) max out one weapon skill, attack, defense, mana, casting and lore. So there's plenty there. Don't worry about using up all your tries. If that happens, just keep playing the game, get more xp and try again later.
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Post edited March 23, 2020 by stryx
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karnak1: I don't think you need specific skill sets in order to beat the game since there are several ways to achieve your goals. [...]

In fact, the first time I beat the game (when I was still a kid) I hardly recited any mantras at all. I just kept beating the monsters to a pulp (or fleeing from them) and moving forward :P
Thanks, I think this was my main worry!

And thanks to the stryx and Vyraexii as well.



Unfortunately, I think I am now stuck in level 7 since I am closed off by 2 portcullises and the guards won't talk to me. Basically, I spoke to the first guard before I had the medallion and they all attacked me as a result. Later on, I gave the second guard the medallion but they attacked me anyway. I killed them all, but now seem to be stuck. Oh well!
Post edited March 23, 2020 by Maxmetpt
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karnak1: I don't think you need specific skill sets in order to beat the game since there are several ways to achieve your goals. [...]

In fact, the first time I beat the game (when I was still a kid) I hardly recited any mantras at all. I just kept beating the monsters to a pulp (or fleeing from them) and moving forward :P
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Maxmetpt: Thanks, I think this was my main worry!

And thanks to the stryx and Vyraexii as well.

Unfortunately, I think I am now stuck in level 7 since I am closed off by 2 portcullises and the guards won't talk to me. Basically, I spoke to the first guard before I had the medallion and they all attacked me as a result. Later on, I gave the second guard the medallion but they attacked me anyway. I killed them all, but now seem to be stuck. Oh well!
I don't think there's any way you can really get stuck in the game (unless you suffer some game bug which makes objects disappear). Have you tried searching the maps + cluebook for any sort of key?

I think there is a post on a games forum concerning your case. Don't know if it's helpful:

http://www.abandonia.com/vbullet/showpost.php?p=262268&postcount=65
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Maxmetpt: Thanks, I think this was my main worry!

And thanks to the stryx and Vyraexii as well.

Unfortunately, I think I am now stuck in level 7 since I am closed off by 2 portcullises and the guards won't talk to me. Basically, I spoke to the first guard before I had the medallion and they all attacked me as a result. Later on, I gave the second guard the medallion but they attacked me anyway. I killed them all, but now seem to be stuck. Oh well!
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karnak1: I don't think there's any way you can really get stuck in the game (unless you suffer some game bug which makes objects disappear). Have you tried searching the maps + cluebook for any sort of key?

I think there is a post on a games forum concerning your case. Don't know if it's helpful:

http://www.abandonia.com/vbullet/showpost.php?p=262268&postcount=65
Thanks, had already read it. I am/was stuck between the gates 2 and 3. I had access to two stairs down to level 8 and found 2 keys, but neither one helped.
I think there was some bug, because the goblins of the 2nd gate accepted the medallion, but then attacked me and the medallion was lost.

Fortunately, I had a save at the beginning of level 7. So I reloaded and things are going according to plan.
Unfortunately the game does have some bugs. I remember - when I played it many years ago - I kept backup saves of each level.
I'm not sure where you encountered the problem(s), so I'll try addressing a few areas that seem relevant.

-If you've found the medallion, then the guards should accept it and let you pass without a fight. However, if you persist in starting conversation with them after showing the medallion, they will get annoyed and become hostile anyway. Each guard post is handled independently from the others; you are free to medallion or murder your way past each one without the other posts being any the wiser for it.
-No one takes the medallion from you. If it disappeared from your bags, then that's a bug. If you showed it to them and then ended the conversation before putting it back in your pack, it was dropped at your feet instead of automatically being placed back in your pack; this is standard and not a bug.
-The guards at the jail will accept the medallion, but they'll lock you in that small room between two portcullis', and you'll have to either pick one of the locks, use a key, or give them enough loot that they open the portcullis leading into the prison area. Talk to the troll on the other side of the portcullis if you end the conversation before they open the door. One of the guards at the jail post has a key to the portcullis (kill them to get it), and Tyball has the other; either key will work.
-You'll have to deal with Tyball before getting into level 8 proper; the other stairs to level 8 are basically passages around level 7 or dead ends (imp room).

You'll earn more mantra chants for skills as you level, ultimately being able to max out 6 or 7 skills. Shrines are completely interchangeable with regard to mantra chants for skills; it doesn't matter which one you use or when.

As for skills, I suggest maxing a single weapon skill (any except ranged), then focus defense, then attack. After that, it is up to you. Mana and Casting are useful if you do any spell casting. Lore is great to help id items, though if you are willing to save scum then the wand of identification has effectively infinite charges. Some of the others can be handy in certain circumstances, namely pick lock and repair. Swimming is completely redundant if you move through water using the compass arrows. Charm and Appraise can help with deals, but fish can do it better. Search doesn't help at all, from what I've seen. Traps are too rare to matter. I've never tried sneaking with Stealth, since I like light. A few points in Acrobat is nice, but it only helps if you hit a wall straight on; colliding while you are turned away doesn't activate the skill.
Post edited March 23, 2020 by Bookwyrm627
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Bookwyrm627: I'm not sure where you encountered the problem(s), so I'll try addressing a few areas that seem relevant.

-If you've found the medallion, then the guards should accept it and let you pass without a fight. However, if you persist in starting conversation with them after showing the medallion, they will get annoyed and become hostile anyway. Each guard post is handled independently from the others; you are free to medallion or murder your way past each one without the other posts being any the wiser for it.
-No one takes the medallion from you. If it disappeared from your bags, then that's a bug. If you showed it to them and then ended the conversation before putting it back in your pack, it was dropped at your feet instead of automatically being placed back in your pack; this is standard and not a bug.
-The guards at the jail will accept the medallion, but they'll lock you in that small room between two portcullis', and you'll have to either pick one of the locks, use a key, or give them enough loot that they open the portcullis leading into the prison area. Talk to the troll on the other side of the portcullis if you end the conversation before they open the door. One of the guards at the jail post has a key to the portcullis (kill them to get it), and Tyball has the other; either key will work.
-You'll have to deal with Tyball before getting into level 8 proper; the other stairs to level 8 are basically passages around level 7 or dead ends (imp room).

You'll earn more mantra chants for skills as you level, ultimately being able to max out 6 or 7 skills. Shrines are completely interchangeable with regard to mantra chants for skills; it doesn't matter which one you use or when.

As for skills, I suggest maxing a single weapon skill (any except ranged), then focus defense, then attack. After that, it is up to you. Mana and Casting are useful if you do any spell casting. Lore is great to help id items, though if you are willing to save scum then the wand of identification has effectively infinite charges. Some of the others can be handy in certain circumstances, namely pick lock and repair. Swimming is completely redundant if you move through water using the compass arrows. Charm and Appraise can help with deals, but fish can do it better. Search doesn't help at all, from what I've seen. Traps are too rare to matter. I've never tried sneaking with Stealth, since I like light. A few points in Acrobat is nice, but it only helps if you hit a wall straight on; colliding while you are turned away doesn't activate the skill.
Thanks for the reply.

I was stuck just before the jail part. I was NOT in jail. The guards that opened the gate wouldn't talk to me at all, so I never got tricked by the troll.
It is possible that the medallion was dropped on the floor and lost in the bloodbath that ensued! haha But I couldn't not go back to that area (or so I thought, read at the end, P.S.).

As I said, I reloaded and played more carefully. I've already dealt with Tyball and have all the talismans, so everything is resolved.

P.S.: I'll add this - I later discovered a door I could bash down, so I wasn't entirely stuck. That lead back into the earlier part of the level. I had seen the door, but it was metal and locked; only later did I learn that "sturdy" doors can be bashed and not just wooden-looking doors.
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Maxmetpt: Thanks for the reply.

I was stuck just before the jail part. I was NOT in jail. The guards that opened the gate wouldn't talk to me at all, so I never got tricked by the troll.
It is possible that the medallion was dropped on the floor and lost in the bloodbath that ensued! haha But I couldn't not go back to that area (or so I thought, read at the end, P.S.).

As I said, I reloaded and played more carefully. I've already dealt with Tyball and have all the talismans, so everything is resolved.

P.S.: I'll add this - I later discovered a door I could bash down, so I wasn't entirely stuck. That lead back into the earlier part of the level. I had seen the door, but it was metal and locked; only later did I learn that "sturdy" doors can be bashed and not just wooden-looking doors.
Ah. I'm not sure why the guards wouldn't talk to you; if you anger them then they are supposed to open the gate and come out to fight. Might be another bug.

Level 7 is interesting in how it appears quite linear, especially on a first run, but there are a LOT of connections once you know where to look. :)

Yep, sturdy doors can (mostly) be bashed. It is "Massive" doors that can't be bashed. I seem to recall from a recent run there might be a few sturdy doors that can't be bashed in the Lizardman area, but they might have been doors that I thought were sturdy but were actually massive when I looked.
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Maxmetpt: P.S.: I'll add this - I later discovered a door I could bash down, so I wasn't entirely stuck. That lead back into the earlier part of the level. I had seen the door, but it was metal and locked; only later did I learn that "sturdy" doors can be bashed and not just wooden-looking doors.
Cool! I always had the feeling that the game didn't had "walking-dead" situations (except for the possible game bugs).
Amazing game... years ahead of its time.
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Maxmetpt: Thanks for the reply.

I was stuck just before the jail part. I was NOT in jail. The guards that opened the gate wouldn't talk to me at all, so I never got tricked by the troll.
It is possible that the medallion was dropped on the floor and lost in the bloodbath that ensued! haha But I couldn't not go back to that area (or so I thought, read at the end, P.S.).

As I said, I reloaded and played more carefully. I've already dealt with Tyball and have all the talismans, so everything is resolved.

P.S.: I'll add this - I later discovered a door I could bash down, so I wasn't entirely stuck. That lead back into the earlier part of the level. I had seen the door, but it was metal and locked; only later did I learn that "sturdy" doors can be bashed and not just wooden-looking doors.
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Bookwyrm627: Ah. I'm not sure why the guards wouldn't talk to you; if you anger them then they are supposed to open the gate and come out to fight. Might be another bug.

Level 7 is interesting in how it appears quite linear, especially on a first run, but there are a LOT of connections once you know where to look. :)

Yep, sturdy doors can (mostly) be bashed. It is "Massive" doors that can't be bashed. I seem to recall from a recent run there might be a few sturdy doors that can't be bashed in the Lizardman area, but they might have been doors that I thought were sturdy but were actually massive when I looked.
Yes, them not talking to me (nor opening the gates to fight me) was the real problem. I may still have been permanently stuck since I had no access to the prison as a result.
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Maxmetpt: P.S.: I'll add this - I later discovered a door I could bash down, so I wasn't entirely stuck. That lead back into the earlier part of the level. I had seen the door, but it was metal and locked; only later did I learn that "sturdy" doors can be bashed and not just wooden-looking doors.
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karnak1: Cool! I always had the feeling that the game didn't had "walking-dead" situations (except for the possible game bugs).
Amazing game... years ahead of its time.
I really enjoyed it! Until the end, anyway. I feel like levels 7 and 8 (and then the whole scavenging for the remaining talismans and keys) weren't as enjoyable. Perhaps because I don't like old school adventure (point n' click) games.

But yeah, I really missed playing a game that didn't put a marker on the map for every single objective. I actually had to write pages of notes and pay attention to dialogue, for a change!

And despite being very old, it was surprisingly playable. Awkward and cumbersome, at times, but not as terrible as I expected.
Post edited March 24, 2020 by Maxmetpt
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Maxmetpt: Yes, them not talking to me (nor opening the gates to fight me) was the real problem. I may still have been permanently stuck since I had no access to the prison as a result.
If you were on your own, then yes, you would likely be stuck. I don't know if that gate can be picked, and I don't recall whether certain of the doors are massive or hidden.

If you know where to go, then a reveal spell or scroll can let you use a different path through the level.
https://www.sircabirus.com/uw1walk_index.php

Maybe this walkthrough is helpful ;-)