Hi all,

I've completed Ultima Age of Darkness (the 3rd the best IMO) and about to head off doing the Age of Enlightenment. However I'm getting the itch for Ultima VII as it's hailed one of the best RPGs for its time.

So my question is will I miss a lot of lore etc if I miss the age of enlightenment and do VII to iX first. Most likely there will be spoilers along the way (as I read the manual for VII and yep it gives you a summary of the past six Ultimas) however it looks like Ultima IV and V is a fan favourite as well.

I'm aware games change over time however I'm looking both for historical achievements + gameplay.

Other words, would I kill the 'system' bypassing IV - VI (to satisfy my itch for VII) or is it worth the journey (i.e. watching the avatar grow)?

Sorry about this question as Ultima VII does look great indeed and I'm an old school gamer as well so graphics has no effect on me (well that's a little lie as I'm getting a little tired viewing that top down view in all three Ultimas and it looks like IV and V is following the same path - but if the story is decent then I have no issues).

Thanks all

In my opinion, it's totally worth the journey.

At the very least, you can't miss Ultima IV if you're looking to get the effect of the story of the Ultima series proper. Ultimas I-III give you the history of the setting, but Ultimas IV-VI give you the philosophy of it. Ultima IV is the story of how the Stranger becomes the Avatar, the Champion of Virtue, and V and VI develop those virtues (and how they can be misapplied and misinterpreted) further.

While Ultima VII is a great game, and can easily be played with only a cursory knowledge of the games previous (i.e. what can be found in the manual), it's enhanced all the more when you're coming off the Age of Enlightenment games. There's no impact to a turning away from the virtues (as Ultima VII suggests) or seeing them corrupted (Ultima IX's tack) if you didn't work so hard to champion them in the previous games.

Of course, I fully admit I'm a tad biased - Ultima IV's my favorite in the series, and I replay it often. But if you're asking if you're going to miss a lot of lore - yes, you are. The Age of Enlightenment is where the series really took off storywise, and they're all unique in their own right.

Continuity wasn't high on the list for Origin, but yes there will be missed back-story. Especially with the Virtues. Are the second trilogy games necessary? No, but they're nice if you want some old time game fun.

There are references to (and sometimes major plot points developing from) prior games in every one of the series, so it's well worth playing through the set as long as the technical limitations of the earlier ones don't bother you. (And if you've finished 1-3, it's fair to think they don't!)

Actually I would say, as an option to consider, and after reading you having completed 1-3, to skip IV.
I haven't actually completed any, but got near the ending in VII, and played 3-6 quite a bit also...
Have you listened the audio interview of Richard Garriot? I remember it came with some of the ultima games here in GOG. Maybe the 2nd trilogy.
Just for me the whole virtue attitude in IV is just way too much at the moment.
The V is just so different both storywise and the whole setting of the world.
And then the brilliant VI, where for me the gameplay is the best of all ultimas.
But that is because of the perfect turn-based combat (VII is real-time with pause-option.)

Oh god, don't skip Ultima IV, of all games. I would have to strongly disagree with the poster above me on that one. Along with VII, Ultima IV (imo) is the most quintessential Ultima game in terms of story line. That is the game when you become the Avatar in the first place and was the first to really make Lord British a legend in the RPG world.

If you have an NES, I would actually recommend that version of Quest of the Avatar over PC. The PC one is a classic but is horribly dated today. I loved Ultima V (the Lazarus version), but you could probably skip V and VI if need be. They're all good though...

Honestly, the storyline doesn't really matter for any of the games. You can just watch Spoony's retrospective if you want to skip any of the games. With Ultima it's not so much about the written narrative, it's rather about what you do with it. The narrative of Utima IV can be summarized in a few sentences (which is what the manuals do), but the game is really about your quest of becoming the Avatar.

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback as it looks like not to skip Ultima IV. Basing on that it seems that the Ultima series 'truly' starts at Ultima IV (the birth of the avatar) - I like that justification.

After that I will go for V and VI as it seems that V has a 'darker twist' I believe and VI definitely improves on graphics and gameplay.

And yeah I saw Ultima V (Lazarus version) so I might go with that (as long they haven't changed the original game too much) and besides, I love Dungeon Siege 1, especially the mule.

About Spoony's retrospective, I saw his vid for Ultima I and yeah he ditches the game however the way I look at it, Ultima I was the start of things to come. After all, it was made originally back in 1981 (or thereabouts).

Again thanks for the responses as I admit, had a serious itch for Ultima VII and really cannot see any advantage playing IV - VI. Well I was wrong.

:) Game on all.

^ Good decision Azghouls. I think you'll find you made the right one. Ultima V Lazarus is definitely the way to go when you get to it, and personally I was all about that game from start to finish. The amount of work they put into recreating the world on a more modern engine is very impressive, as well as the dialogue and NPC interaction. There are only minor and insignificant changes in the game vs the original and they made sure to avoid changing anything the Ultima public considered "heresy" lol. The story in Warriors of Destiny is definitely a bit darker than the other games in the age of enlightenment but its a very cool and welcome diversion. The Shadowlords are pretty intense - you'll see.

Another team, not related to Lazarus, recreated Ultima VI on the same engine and it was entitled Ultima VI Project. I have yet to play that one, but it looks like it could be good as well.

Enjoy becoming the Avatar in IV stranger :)

I have a great respect for Lazarus and the work its development team put into it, and I too think it's awesome, though I haven't really played it very extensively. But one does need to remember that it's not Ultima V - it's Dungeon Siege with Ultima V's setting and story. I tend to feel the mechanics are as much a part of a game's aesthetic as the rest of it, and doubly so when it comes to Ultima, as they used a new engine for each new (numbered) game in the series, so I don't always feel "right" in playing a remake before I've at least given the game it's based on some attention.

That said, I know everybody's got different reasons and preferences when it comes to games. :) So I'd simply suggest you consider what it is you want to play the game for, Azghouls: if it's solely story and lore that you're focused on, then yeah, Lazarus is definitely the way to play! But if you're also interested in its development as a part of the series - give the real thing a go first... and then fire up Lazarus afterward to see it with all the power of a more modern engine. ;)

Whatever you decide for Ultima V, enjoy Ultima IV! I just finished a replay earlier today thanks to this thread, and may end up wandering into Ultima V next myself. :P Game on!

I've slogged through the first 2, and as long as you've seen spoony's reviews, or read a short summary of the age of Darkness, you won't be missing much by starting at IV. In fact the second game is pretty nonsensical IMO when you get right down to it

agreed. it's a stretch to consider it even 'missing out' on the satisfaction of vanquishing a ~triad of evil~, but there's certainly no 'lore gap', since nothing other than the Triad and the names of British, Shamino, and one or two townes have any resonance whatsoever with anything post-III - even IV's skull and suchlike don't benefit from pre-IV experience/knowledge. yeah, i've heard/seen just a bit too much of II to be pleasantly surprised/amused by the anachronisms & other absurdities...

There's a little bit of lore-link between 1/3 and The Serpent Isle, and there's even a poem by Minax (2) floating around in one of the libraries there. Still not game-shaking, though.

Besides the fact Serpent Isle is essentially one giant callback to Ultima I, there is also the Forge of Virtue add-on for VII, which revisits a few locations from III (including Exodus Isle).