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I've finished Ultima 7 Black Gate, and I'm wondering if Ultima 8 or 9 are simular, longer, or shorter in terms of the amount of time it takes to play them to the end?

Thanks.
Ultima 8 is definitely much shorter, and you can even race through it if you know where to go.
If I'd have to take a rough guess, I'd say it takes about half the time that either TBG or SI takes.
And it's good that it's a lot shorter, since it's unfortunately not a very good game.
Protip: Be prepared when opening chests, because -EVERY- chest in the game explodes, even when you have a key.

Ultima 9, I looked it up and it's about the same as TBG or SI, but if I were you I'd skip this piece of trash altogether.
If you do decide to go for it: Try to ignore the game crapping on lots of established lore, save often and in different slots, and prepare to see a lot of crashes.
@6502_Workshop

I wanted to thank you for posting all those questions for the Ultima series. It will save a lot of time in the future for people on GOG looking for answers when it comes time for them to start their own adventures.

And you framed you questions in a very nicely structured and consistent manner also. Good work. Ofc, the people who provided the answers deserve a lot of credit as well. :)
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I definitely wouldn't recommend skipping Ultima 9, myself. It does have its rough parts--for myself, I'm not a fan of the plot, and it very much has some issues with bugs. However, it also has its charms, I feel--again for myself, I find its implementation of an "open world" to be excellent.

Whatever you come to think of it, I feel that it's worth giving it a try, at least.

(Ultima 8 likewise has its issues and its charms, although it's perhaps a less-divisive entry in the series.)
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Gotcha: Ultima 8 is definitely much shorter, and you can even race through it if you know where to go.
If I'd have to take a rough guess, I'd say it takes about half the time that either TBG or SI takes.
And it's good that it's a lot shorter, since it's unfortunately not a very good game.
Protip: Be prepared when opening chests, because -EVERY- chest in the game explodes, even when you have a key.

Ultima 9, I looked it up and it's about the same as TBG or SI, but if I were you I'd skip this piece of trash altogether.
If you do decide to go for it: Try to ignore the game crapping on lots of established lore, save often and in different slots, and prepare to see a lot of crashes.
Thanks for the information!
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gog2002x: @6502_Workshop

I wanted to thank you for posting all those questions for the Ultima series. It will save a lot of time in the future for people on GOG looking for answers when it comes time for them to start their own adventures.

And you framed you questions in a very nicely structured and consistent manner also. Good work. Ofc, the people who provided the answers deserve a lot of credit as well. :)
.
Thanks for the thanks - I'm glad to know that they are helpful beyond my own information needs. And thanks to everyone who has been answering my questions, it's made this journey much smoother!
Post edited March 25, 2021 by 6502_Workshop
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Thaumaturge: I definitely wouldn't recommend skipping Ultima 9, myself. It does have its rough parts--for myself, I'm not a fan of the plot, and it very much has some issues with bugs. However, it also has its charms, I feel--again for myself, I find its implementation of an "open world" to be excellent.

Whatever you come to think of it, I feel that it's worth giving it a try, at least.

(Ultima 8 likewise has its issues and its charms, although it's perhaps a less-divisive entry in the series.)
I do plan to play 8 and 9. For me it's at a minimum a historical learning experience. Ultima has had a big impact on me as it was my introduction to RPGs, but while I played 1 - 6 back in the 80s/90s, I never made it past 6 and in recent months finally committed to playing the rest of the series that I missed. It's been really fascinating to see the changes from one game to the next.

I've heard about the issues with 8 and 9 for years and I actually look forward to experiencing them first hand to get better feel for the games evolution. That said, if I find them interesting but not fun I won't hesitate to use a walk through or even stop short so as to not prolong the experience :-)
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Thaumaturge: I definitely wouldn't recommend skipping Ultima 9, myself. It does have its rough parts--for myself, I'm not a fan of the plot, and it very much has some issues with bugs. However, it also has its charms, I feel--again for myself, I find its implementation of an "open world" to be excellent.

Whatever you come to think of it, I feel that it's worth giving it a try, at least.

(Ultima 8 likewise has its issues and its charms, although it's perhaps a less-divisive entry in the series.)
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6502_Workshop: I do plan to play 8 and 9. For me it's at a minimum a historical learning experience. Ultima has had a big impact on me as it was my introduction to RPGs, but while I played 1 - 6 back in the 80s/90s, I never made it past 6 and in recent months finally committed to playing the rest of the series that I missed. It's been really fascinating to see the changes from one game to the next.

I've heard about the issues with 8 and 9 for years and I actually look forward to experiencing them first hand to get better feel for the games evolution. That said, if I find them interesting but not fun I won't hesitate to use a walk through or even stop short so as to not prolong the experience :-)
This would explain why Nox Archaist has so much in common with earlier Ultimas (particularly 5), as opposed to other CRPGs of that era. (With that said, the area-based progression of enemy strength, and the growth of skills through usage, are very not like classic Ultima.)

Other CRPGs that I'd recommmend looking into for historical reasons, if you haven't already played them, are:
* Wizardry 1-5 (Wizardry 4, in particular, is a one-of-a-kind game, as I don't know of any other game like it)
* Might and Magic 1-5
* Bard's Tale 1-3
* Perhaps the original Dragon Quest (which is very different from modern JRPGs despite being the game that spawned that sub-genre)

I've been thinking of making an RPG myself, though the influences will be different; it's looking like maybe SaGa, Final Fantasy 5 (that entry in particular, with maybe some FF2 influence), and perhaps Wizardy/Bard's Tale, as those games are what I grew up with (albeit only the Game Boy SaGas, and I only played FF2 and FF5 after fan translations came out), and those are the RPGs I generally like the most.

By the way, there's apparently a game coming out for the Apple 2 called Lawless Legends, and there's apparently a demo available; you might be interested in that.
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6502_Workshop: I do plan to play 8 and 9. For me it's at a minimum a historical learning experience. ...
Ah, I'm glad to read that you haven't been put off of them! And indeed, I daresay that they do make for quite the historical journey! ^_^

As to walkthroughs, I will not gainsay that! If it's your way of enjoying these games, then I see no problem with it. ^_^
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6502_Workshop: I do plan to play 8 and 9. For me it's at a minimum a historical learning experience. ...
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Thaumaturge: Ah, I'm glad to read that you haven't been put off of them! And indeed, I daresay that they do make for quite the historical journey! ^_^

As to walkthroughs, I will not gainsay that! If it's your way of enjoying these games, then I see no problem with it. ^_^
Normally I'm not a fan of using walkthroughs. I usually tough it out and it's quite satisfying. I'm just bracing myself for the possibility that might be the only way I can stomach Ultima 8 and 9 based on everything I've heard, but who knows, I'm doing my best to keep an open mind.
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dtgreene: This would explain why Nox Archaist has so much in common with earlier Ultimas (particularly 5), as opposed to other CRPGs of that era. (With that said, the area-based progression of enemy strength, and the growth of skills through usage, are very not like classic Ultima.)

Other CRPGs that I'd recommmend looking into for historical reasons, if you haven't already played them, are:
* Wizardry 1-5 (Wizardry 4, in particular, is a one-of-a-kind game, as I don't know of any other game like it)
* Might and Magic 1-5
* Bard's Tale 1-3
* Perhaps the original Dragon Quest (which is very different from modern JRPGs despite being the game that spawned that sub-genre)

I've been thinking of making an RPG myself, though the influences will be different; it's looking like maybe SaGa, Final Fantasy 5 (that entry in particular, with maybe some FF2 influence), and perhaps Wizardy/Bard's Tale, as those games are what I grew up with (albeit only the Game Boy SaGas, and I only played FF2 and FF5 after fan translations came out), and those are the RPGs I generally like the most.

By the way, there's apparently a game coming out for the Apple 2 called Lawless Legends, and there's apparently a demo available; you might be interested in that.
Thanks for the reply.

Regarding the area based progression of enemey strength and character development progression in Nox Archaist being different from classic Ultima despite the other similarities, that was very much intentional. Ultima was always my favorite and made the biggest impression on me but Bard's Tale and Wizardry were also big influences. I always liked Ultima for the story and Bard's Tale and Wizardry for engaging combat and rewarding character progression. One of my goals was to create a CRPG that was strong in both of those gameplay elements.

I am very much looking forward to Lawless Legends.

Good luck on your RPG project if you decide to undertake it. And, thanks for all your help answering my questions over the last few months!
Post edited March 26, 2021 by 6502_Workshop
I think U8 is a good game overall with the jumping patch. It just isn’t on par with the previous games, which were outstanding. U9 I have never played :)
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6502_Workshop: Normally I'm not a fan of using walkthroughs. I usually tough it out and it's quite satisfying. I'm just bracing myself for the possibility that might be the only way I can stomach Ultima 8 and 9 based on everything I've heard, but who knows, I'm doing my best to keep an open mind.
Fair enough!

In which case... I could honestly see you getting through both games without a walkthrough. I really don't feel--speaking for myself, at least--that they're as bad as I've seen claimed.

Ultima IX in particular has few sticking points that I recall. Although you might want a guide to get around some of the more troublesome bugs.

(Be careful when you get to Valoria in particular: I recall there being some really nasty bugs in that location. Save often and in multiple slots, and explore with caution.

That said, most areas should have few such issues, if any, as far as I recall.)

Ultima VIII I could more-easily see you going to a walkthrough for: it can be a little trying, and a little unforgiving, in places, according to my memory. Still, even so, I could also see you getting through the whole thing on your own.
Post edited March 27, 2021 by Thaumaturge
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6502_Workshop: Normally I'm not a fan of using walkthroughs. I usually tough it out and it's quite satisfying. I'm just bracing myself for the possibility that might be the only way I can stomach Ultima 8 and 9 based on everything I've heard, but who knows, I'm doing my best to keep an open mind.
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Thaumaturge: Fair enough!

In which case... I could honestly see you getting through both games without a walkthrough. I really don't feel--speaking for myself, at least--that they're as bad as I've seen claimed.

Ultima IX in particular has few sticking points that I recall. Although you might want a guide to get around some of the more troublesome bugs.

(Be careful when you get to Valoria in particular: I recall there being some really nasty bugs in that location. Save often and in multiple slots, and explore with caution.

That said, most areas should have few such issues, if any, as far as I recall.)

Ultima VIII I could more-easily see you going to a walkthrough for: it can be a little trying, and a little unforgiving, in places, according to my memory. Still, even so, I could also see you getting through the whole thing on your own.
Thanks for the advice!
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6502_Workshop: I've finished Ultima 7 Black Gate, and I'm wondering if Ultima 8 or 9 are simular, longer, or shorter in terms of the amount of time it takes to play them to the end?

Thanks.
howlongtobeat.com is a very helpful resource which I often look at before buying a game.

I just finished U9 this week. It took me about 55 hours and I used walkthroughs here and there. On its own it's not as bad a game as its reputation suggests, but I can see why in the context of the previous games you'd be disappointed.

I have a couple of recommendations before starting U9:

1. Understand the "Ethereal Sight" spell. It is never explained, but its the key to finding a few secrets.
2. Take advantage of the reagents glitch where you can pick up reagents back in to your inventory just before finishing binding a spell. Especially early in the game, your inventory will be clogged with reagents.
3. In the game's folder is a file (i forget the name) that lists the key-bindings and allows you to edit some. Open this file and look at all the key binding options. Many, like ctrl-j to open to most recent journal, are not documented anywhere in the game materials.
4. Consider enabling the key-binding for "Fast Avatar" cheat. It's a large open world and near the end you'll find yourself backtracking and it becomes an absolute chore when the Avatar moves so slow.
Post edited March 29, 2021 by rwgomez
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rwgomez: howlongtobeat.com is a very helpful resource which I often look at before buying a game.

I just finished U9 this week. It took me about 55 hours and I used walkthroughs here and there. On its own it's not as bad a game as its reputation suggests, but I can see why in the context of the previous games you'd be disappointed.

I have a couple of recommendations before starting U9:

1. Understand the "Ethereal Sight" spell. It is never explained, but its the key to finding a few secrets.
2. Take advantage of the reagents glitch where you can pick up reagents back in to your inventory just before finishing binding a spell. Especially early in the game, your inventory will be clogged with reagents.
3. In the game's folder is a file (i forget the name) that lists the key-bindings and allows you to edit some. Open this file and look at all the key binding options. Many, like ctrl-j to open to most recent journal, are not documented anywhere in the game materials.
4. Consider enabling the key-binding for "Fast Avatar" cheat. It's a large open world and near the end you'll find yourself backtracking and it becomes an absolute chore when the Avatar moves so slow.
Thanks for the tips!