Anyone notice the differences between PC/MAC and C64/ST versions?

I read and seen many Let's Play of raising your stats via the hotel clerk... by 4 points per 100 coin.

But in Atari ST (the version am playing), no matter what - it's always 1 point per 100 coin.

Anyone else notice this?

Sorry I just used the main version available through GOG, which I think is PC.

That was 4 points per 100G, but only about 50% of the time. The other 50% he just takes your money, forcing unscrupulous types to quit, re-load and try again.

Heh - yeah. I don't know who thought "grind is good" back in the day but they were WRONG.

The game is worse than that. Not only do you need to reload when he takes your money, but you need to reload when he scores the wrong attribute.

Ultima 2 is a pretty bad game overall. Worse I feel than even its predecessor. But given the changes in Ultima 3, Garriot and team obviously learned their lessons.

In fairness, all of the early Ultimas had a "let's throw all these ideas at the wall, and see which ones stick" kind of vibe.

It's easy to overlook if you weren't around back then, but Garriott & Co. were not just building RPGs, but helping to define the genre. A lot of the mechanics we now take for granted were first introduced or codified in one or another Ultima game: the ability to earn or buy stat increases, a limiting mechanic such as food consumption, tying virtues to abilities, etc.

Some of these are so ubiquitous these days, that it's easy to forget that someone had to be the one to do it first. That's why I consider the early Ultima games such an important part of videogaming history.

But yeah, #2 is definitely the worst of the lot. :p

I actually feel that pretty much every Ultima game (except the first, for obvious reasons) has at least one particular annoying aspect that was not present in its predecessor.

I could mention, for example, Ultima 5; stat gains on level up are random, there's no other way to increase stats, and worst of all, whether you level up is random. To level up in Ultima 5 once you have enough XP, you have to rest and literally hope you get lucky.

(Other annoying aspects: U3: Having to keep track of who is carrying what. U4: Needing to mix reagents to cast spells, plus virtue grinding. U5: In addition to the level up issue, needing torches outdoors at night, and the Shadowlords appearing in town. U6: Being limited in what you can carry by weight (previous Ultimas had no such limit), and the world being a pain to navigate on foot. U7: Having to manually feed your characters, also real-time combat is not an improvement over U6's combat. SI: Excessive dialogue and cutscenes.) Strangely, the things you mention here don't feel like staples of the genre. Food and virtues aren't standard RPG elements (a notable exception being food in roguelikes), and stat increases usually only occur when you level up.

I also note that the food mechanics in the Ultima series don't feel like they've been well thought out; they feel like an annoyance rather than something that adds a strategic element to the gameplay. I feel the same about reagents; I personally think the series would have been better if reagents were dropped entirely or if the only reagent needed were mandrake root (and spells that don't currently require it would not require any reagents).

Yeah the individual inventory in U3 is annoying, I suspect Garriot thought that different characters would be swapped out of the party but I think that in practice few people did that.

I personally like Reagents, I think it's a better alternative to regenerating magic points or having to rest and memorize spells ala DnD. It's somewhat similar to the Witcher games wherein you'll will get potions ready before a battle. Also gives something to buy on a regular basis, or something to scrounge, besides food and stealing gear.

I never finished Ultima V. I got far but then lost interest. Lately I started to re-play it as I don't think I would know where I was in my previous save. One thing I find annoying in that game so far is actually the combat. In U1-4 you simply would press A for attack and then a direction key, but in U5 you have to move the cursor onto the guy you want to hit. So like "A" then "up" "right" and "enter". Is it more versatile? Sure, but it's also a lot more key clicks. I would rather it was restricted to ranged attacks. I'm also not fond of having to search all the bodies for loot at the end. And the second time around I'm not sure I can be arsed to re-learn runic.

As for leveling up in U5, random stats aside I suspect you level up while resting in order to make the process more organic. Rather than having to return to some central hub all the time, you just keep doing what you're doing and now again you'll get boosted. I can imagine it can get frustrating if you specifically are looking for it but I don't recall getting annoyed by it.

It is interesting though, to see the improvements they make and the missteps.