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Baker535: TOCA 3 was part of my very first order with GoG and I'm extremely disappointed in this action... I could have bought a brand new retail copy for six dollars and not wasted my time in the first place.

Starforce, Starforce, Starforce, Starforce, Starforce.
If that's OK with you, then maybe GOG isn't the right place for you. I'm sure you can find great DRMed games for a fairly cheap price elsewhere.
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Baker535: If the game has been pulled in such a matter how is our backup even considered legal at this point? If it's still Ok for me to have a physical backup why can't GoG still keep it available for download...

It is legal. Make two backups, it's twice as legal :) . DISTRIBUTION is limited. Just stop and think a bit. Is it legal for you to make backups and give them to a bunch of friends? No, of course not, that's distribution. That was never OK for you to do.
GOG has that limited license to distribute, and they're losing that license, despite the best of their efforts. It will soon be "not OK" for them to do either.
Copy the disc. Do it twice. Plunk the disc in your computer ten years from now and play the game, never worrying about cracks or destroyed CD drives. YOU OWN THE GAME.
I can't figure out why nobody thinks that's not worth a few bucks all on its own?
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Baker535: TOCA 3 was part of my very first order with GoG and I'm extremely disappointed in this action... I could have bought a brand new retail copy for six dollars and not wasted my time in the first place.
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BoxOfSnoo: Starforce, Starforce, Starforce, Starforce, Starforce.
If that's OK with you, then maybe GOG isn't the right place for you. I'm sure you can find great DRMed games for a fairly cheap price elsewhere.
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Baker535: If the game has been pulled in such a matter how is our backup even considered legal at this point? If it's still Ok for me to have a physical backup why can't GoG still keep it available for download...

It is legal. Make two backups, it's twice as legal :) . DISTRIBUTION is limited. Just stop and think a bit. Is it legal for you to make backups and give them to a bunch of friends? No, of course not, that's distribution. That was never OK for you to do.
GOG has that limited license to distribute, and they're losing that license, despite the best of their efforts. It will soon be "not OK" for them to do either.
Copy the disc. Do it twice. Plunk the disc in your computer ten years from now and play the game, never worrying about cracks or destroyed CD drives. YOU OWN THE GAME.
I can't figure out why nobody thinks that's not worth a few bucks all on its own?

That's a pretty ignorant statement to say GoG might not be for me just because of the DRM factor. However I really could care less about the DRM so that's moot. I have so many games at this point one of them is bound to have installed Starforce.
I paid GoG for the convenience of having a download available anytime I want. At the time I was trying to support a new competitor to Steam. A company with a different angle about offering older games and getting them to work on newer OS's was intriguing, so I didn't mind the premium as long as they delivered. Now part of the service I paid for is unavailable - What's so hard to understand? If it doesn't have DRM that's just a bonus, not a driving feature for me. The thing I find of value is not wasting my time making and keeping track of a stupid backup. I don't trust the reliability of burned media and I hate using it for my games. It's either got to be retail or Digital Distribution for me and as of right now for TOCA 3 it doesn't fall into either catagory.
GoG is saying there's nothing they can do when so far other distribution centers seem unphased.
Post edited July 31, 2009 by Milivoj1973
I do feel ripped off, as a customer I was promised a service which I feel has collapsed. What about a coupon up to the value of what I paid? Then I'll be 100% happy with GoG as a service, even if I'll sometimes lose classics I can still grab others.
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Heliocentric: I do feel ripped off, as a customer I was promised a service which I feel has collapsed. What about a coupon up to the value of what I paid? Then I'll be 100% happy with GoG as a service, even if I'll sometimes lose classics I can still grab others.

You feel ripped off as a customer ? Are you kidding ?
Look, the guys do an awesome job when it comes to pampering their customers (all of us).
Weekend promos, weekly promos, series promos, contests, coupons give aways, a whole catalogue of games DRM free at very reasonable prices, cool extras for most games, open lines of communication with the staff, etc.
Just backup your games and the extras and you won't loose anything.
Besides, we are no way near the deadline(s) and the guys are still trying to push for a different outcome at this time, so bringing up coupons/refunds at this time comes across as a little greedy.
The guys go the extra mile all the time to improve our experience as customers, so how about cutting them some slack on this one since it's the first time something like this happened ? I'm sure the guys on the team feel bad enough as it is.
Even if it turns out they really can't do anything about this, let's just chalk this one as a one time freak ocurrence, wrap this up and move on.
Give me a break, I paid for something with conditions i was promised. Yes I feel ripped off.
This could happen to *ANY TITLE* how gog treats this is critical to its worth as a service.
Its all good and well telling me I should feel sorry for GoG, but they still have my money.
I need to add, I'm not actually angry at GoG, but nor am I ready to be treated like a berk. Who takes "cant be helped" as a valid answer.
I mean, sure if the files I get corrupt/disc damaged one day. I could torrent the files, break the law but have some defence within morality, or just suck it up and lose out on the game. But that's not my first choice.
We are not talking about GoG folding as a company and everyone having to make a lifeboat of files. That I'd accept, GoG is still trading and happy to take my money for products(and I hope to keep doing so), if it expects to continue to do that hiding behind "not our fault" isn't enough for me.
Post edited July 31, 2009 by Heliocentric
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Heliocentric: Give me a break, I paid for something with conditions i was promised. Yes I feel ripped off.
This could happen to *ANY TITLE* how gog treats this is critical to its worth as a service.
Its all good and well telling me I should feel sorry for GoG, but they still have my money.
I need to add, I'm not actually angry at GoG, but nor am I ready to be treated like a berk. Who takes "cant be helped" as a valid answer.
I mean, sure if the files I get corrupt/disc damaged one day. I could torrent the files, break the law but have some defence within morality, or just suck it up and lose out on the game. But that's not my first choice.
We are not talking about GoG folding as a company and everyone having to make a lifeboat of files. That I'd accept, GoG is still trading and happy to take my money for products(and I hope to keep doing so), if it expects to continue to do that hiding behind "not our fault" isn't enough for me.

The guys are still trying to find a different solution for this so at least wait untill a final word on this comes out to feel 'ripped off'. In the meantime, backup your game and the extras.
The service is up and running for less than a year so it's not a very big stretch to assume that this was probably the first time they were faced with this kind of situation. Yes, maybe it could have been handled different but it wasn't. Next time around i'm sure the guys will handle things different/better.
I have both TOCA RD3 and CMR 2005 so i'm not happy with this either, but when it comes to the service i have to consider everything and not just this one instance where things may turn out to have an incovenient outcome.
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Heliocentric: I mean, sure if the files I get corrupt/disc damaged one day. I could torrent the files, break the law but have some defence within morality, or just suck it up and lose out on the game. But that's not my first choice.

What do you do if you bought a boxed game and something went wrong with the disc, or you lost it? It was probably DRMed like crazy so you might not have been able to copy it at all. Wal-Mart won't do anything about it, even though they do "provide a service"
What I would do - if I liked the game enough - was to find a good deal and buy it again. In fact I am tempted to buy Descent 3 and Empire Earth again (I still have the retail discs in hand) because there is a lot of value to me in not having to use a disc or disc image or even enter that crazy CD key again.
What I mean is - do you find ZERO value in having the game to keep, copy, install without online checks? If not ZERO, what price would you put on it to download even for a limited time? Do you think $5 is too much? Have you ever spent more than $5 on an arcade game? Did you get to KEEP the game?
If $5 isn't too much, why do people keep making a massive deal about this?
I don't think there's any vast breach of trust on GOG's part either. Sure, they made a mistake, but even if they announced the whole problem from the start - PERSONALLY I'd have still bought both games (maybe sooner), downloaded them right away, and enjoyed $10 worth of gaming (I bought TOCA full price) even if I didn't back 'em up and lost the installers when done.
Seriously, what's the big deal? What does $10 worth of gaming mean to you?
My view is that GOG should definitely refund anyone who has not yet downloaded the game, and probably even refund anyone else who requests it. They stated very clearly on the news page that anyone who bought it would be able to download forever and since this has not happened they are clearly in the wrong, no matter what the excuses are.
I have no intention of requesting a refund because I have kept my downloaded copy, which I bought well before it was delisted, but I would be interested to know whether GOG are being honourable about refund requests.
I nearly bought Colin MacRae when I saw that it was coming off the catalogue "just in case". I'm certainly glad that I didn't now. Not that I regret buying Race Driver 3, which is great fun, much like the rest of the series. Can't wait for F1 2010.
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richardhunt500: I nearly bought Colin MacRae when I saw that it was coming off the catalogue "just in case". I'm certainly glad that I didn't now.

You made a poor choice, simply to spite yourself, it seems. It's well worth the few bucks, even though it's extremely tough.
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BoxOfSnoo: I don't think there's any vast breach of trust on GOG's part either.

Now this is where I have to disagree with you. We asked them if we'd still be able to download the game after it was no longer available for sale. They said yes. We said "great, here's our money." What we're saying is they messed up, we're not claiming some vast conspiracy. But its poor customer service to not address this.
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Namur: let's just chalk this one as a one time freak ocurrence, wrap this up and move on.

I'd love to, and it probably is a one-time thing, but without them addressing it, how do we know?
This has fundamentally changed the way I use GOG. I used to buy stuff when it went on sale even if I couldn't play right away. It looked fun or I wanted to play it back in the day when I was broke, so I got it. I'm not inclined to do that anymore if I can't be sure the game will be there in the future.
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Namur: let's just chalk this one as a one time freak ocurrence, wrap this up and move on.
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aw: I'd love to, and it probably is a one-time thing, but without them addressing it, how do we know?
This has fundamentally changed the way I use GOG. I used to buy stuff when it went on sale even if I couldn't play right away. It looked fun or I wanted to play it back in the day when I was broke, so I got it. I'm not inclined to do that anymore if I can't be sure the game will be there in the future.

Hi,
Maybe this post by iWi will make you feel slightly better.
They're trying to make sure this doens't happen with other titles and they're also still trying to solve the issue with CMR2005 and TOCA RD3.
Post edited August 04, 2009 by Namur
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Namur: They're trying to make sure this doens't happen with other titles and they're also still trying to solve the issue with CMR2005 and TOCA RD3.

I know they're working hard on it, and I can only imagine the hoops that they have to jump through on licensing. I appreciate all the effort that's gone into this site. I've even heard a rumour that they've contributed to DOSBox, which if true is really great. But on this issue, the only thing that will reassure me is a clearly articulated policy that covers what will happen if this happens again, and gives the consumer some kind of our if their games are set to disappear.
As I said before, one of the things that really gets me is a short notice period during a time when lots of people are away on summer holidays. Its not inconceivable that there are people who will miss the opportunity to grab the game before its pulled from their shelves.
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Ba7oU: Unfortunately there's nothing we could do about it. Of course we won't stop trying so have faith. :|

Any chance you might be able to get TOCA 2, even if not indefinitely? In all other aspects except for the off-roading, I prefer TOCA 2 over TOCA 3, especially as TOCA 2 doesn't have the steering wheel latency bug.
Bug description:
http://www.gog.com/en/forum/toca_race_driver_3/toca_3_steering_wheel_bug_consider_voting_for_toca_2_as_it_doesn_amp_039_t_have_this_bug )
Post edited September 03, 2009 by Penfold