Posted May 26, 2015
foo_
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foo_ Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Austria
paladin181
Ghost of GOG, writing wrongs at every turn
paladin181 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
MarkoH01
The goose rules!
MarkoH01 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2009
From Germany
Posted May 27, 2015
That exactly. The game offers the possibility to move the character by being able to move with a keyboard or gamepad. Both are functioning normally but in a predefined way which still can be changed by editing config files and(or using additional programs or special mouse drivers.
Post edited May 27, 2015 by MarkoH01
foo_
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foo_ Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Austria
Posted May 27, 2015
MarkoH01: Both are functioning normally but in a predefined way which still can be changed by editing config files and(or using additional programs or special mouse drivers
No, editing the config files didn't work. It has been improved, but some parts still don't work. And that is what the entire fuzz is about: hardcoded or blocked keys. About the external software: if you've got a workaround for your needs, good for you.
Other people can't use it because it gets detected as "cheat software", or conflicts with the accessiblity software they need to use a keyboard at all.
These workarounds are not a general solution.
Hey, you can steer this car by wiggling your bottom! No, hands are not required nor supported in this car... it's a hands-free vehicle. But that's not a bug, it's a feature! Wiggle your bum like this...
Avalan
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Avalan Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted May 27, 2015
Avalan: As foo_ has already replied to you about, I think the issues concerning key rebinding are exactly the sort of thing that are covered in such terms as 'implied warranty' and 'fit for purpose', to the point that I wonder if you grasp the concept.
MarkoH01: This was not adressed at me, but I am asking again: why would it? Why should rebinding of keys be essential for a PC game just because most of them have it? As I said before: it MAY be a thing if you cannot use KB+M at all since it is a PC and the PC is usually mainly used for work - also there is no gamepad included in a new PC ect. So this MIGHT be considered to be an implemented thing. But I fail to see how keybinding should fit here. It is a feature - and a useful one. But it surely is not part of what defines a PC game therefore not part of implied warranty. As I said before: give me a link where this is stated and I'll shut up at once. More in line with answering your question though, I think there is a reasonable expectation to be able to change the keyboard settings. I emphasised 'and their application' above, as I think it's important. Computer/video games are, I think, in a situation where the idea of returning a game and how games fall into the Laws of a Sale, are very much uncertain/untested/contested.
There is very much a desire to have games be 'as is', with a great deal of resistance to allow returning a product as faulty. As a very simple example: if a game had a game breaking bug, then can it be returned? The thing about that question is, *many* will say what they think about that, but the point I would try and make, is more concerned with Sales Laws and a determination of whether such a product is simply faulty. I say 'simply' as I'm not sure where Laws stand on this. Very importantly (maybe just to me), I'm unaware of the existing Laws really being put to the test. I don't know if there are any such cases that actually go to *actual* court over such things as a game with a breaking bug in it, let alone key bindings.
I really could go on and on, but seriously, I'm very interested in this. I don't claim to know the answers, *far* from it, but that's kinda the point. I do think though that if in the very unlikely event it went to court (it wouldn't by the way), then the issue could well be very simple, with regard to whether the product, on purchase and receipt, worked and it was reasonable to think that such a product would allow key rebinding. Also, if by not having key rebinding, that meant that in the case of a left handed player, the game was unplayable. And if having such a feature was something that a game's developer would reasonably be expected to include. It was indeed in The Witcher 3, but not fully and did not include the movement keys. A *critical* component. I would say the question would be, should CDPR have allowed the movement keys to be rebound from the start, as well as a few others that were *locked*. Would it have even been difficult? A further question being, why were those keys locked in the first place, when other could be rebound?
As I said, such things aren't really tested in court, but my view is that such a case would come down on the side of the Consumer, as I think it would be reasonable to expect such things.
I'm not sure if that answered your question :o) But I will go on and on, so... take that as a good or a bad :o)
MarkoH01: Just do a quick google search for "Games without Keybinding" and you will read several post from gamers who are outraged that game XYZ does not have the possibility to rebind keys at all or at least some special keys to keys of their choise. I for myself I like to play using arrow keys and many games prevent me from binding the keys to the arrows (I remember Sleeping Dogs, Dead Space, Deadly Premonition, Tiny and Big" - there are probably more but those are the games I remember at the moment).
I'll not add another huge reply :o) Would you say... most do allow rebinding? A lot do? Are these exceptions? Or... I don't want to put words in your mouth, so...
Avalan
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Avalan Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted May 27, 2015
Avalan: As foo_ has already replied to you about, I think the issues concerning key rebinding are exactly the sort of thing that are covered in such terms as 'implied warranty' and 'fit for purpose', to the point that I wonder if you grasp the concept. Or maybe you actually do. I'm not sure why your response to me saying "terms of refund eligibility" omitted two thirds of what I said to sparking_spirit, which talked about that aspect. It does make me wonder. I included the two paragraphs above, that you for some reason omitted.
You say "Expecting a certain feature in a video game and then not receiving it on launch" and "Has the game been advertised to have re-mappable keys? No." The whole point is that a game doesn't need to advertise such features and Consumers do not need to ask. It's implied. That's the point. It's a part of selling any product and having it work. foo_ gave the good examples to s1drano about expecting a house to have stairs, or a car having a transmission [or a gearbox in English ;o) ].
Do you understand the concept? The reasonable expectation of key rebinding could well be discussed (I think it is reasonable to expect key rebinding), but do you understand the point that foo_ made, regarding what 'implied warranty' is?
mmarci: I do understand...god. It has nothing to do with imaginary feature requirements for video games. Try to understand that just because a couple dozen/hundred/thousand customers voice their dissatisfaction about a missing feature in a video game, it still won't provide any ground for a refund claim as the game works as intended, it was you (dissatisfied customers) in the first place who made this requirement up to support your way to play a game. No companies, courts or financial institutions will give a damn about your implications that it should have been in the game because the game functions perfectly. You say "Expecting a certain feature in a video game and then not receiving it on launch" and "Has the game been advertised to have re-mappable keys? No." The whole point is that a game doesn't need to advertise such features and Consumers do not need to ask. It's implied. That's the point. It's a part of selling any product and having it work. foo_ gave the good examples to s1drano about expecting a house to have stairs, or a car having a transmission [or a gearbox in English ;o) ].
Do you understand the concept? The reasonable expectation of key rebinding could well be discussed (I think it is reasonable to expect key rebinding), but do you understand the point that foo_ made, regarding what 'implied warranty' is?
While we are at it, if you try to project implied warranty to a certain product feature, what is your opinion about my inventory management quibble? Do you think it worth asking for a refund based on the implications I have made before purchasing the game?
"No companies, courts or financial institutions will give a damn about your implications that it should have been in the game because the game functions perfectly."
Well, there you lost me. That's such an absolute and massive statement, I would love to know how you can state that with such certainty. The game does not function perfectly. I don't even know if that's hyperbolic or...?
I don't know what your "inventory management quibble" is.
mmarci
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mmarci Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted May 27, 2015
Avalan: It's not just a feature. It's something that stopped/stops a lot of people actually playing the game. It was present, but some aspects were locked and didn't work fully. They still don't work fully. 1.04 Patch Notes say "Rebinding any key..." and that's not the case. Some people needed to use something so simple as using different keys and the game blocked that.
"No companies, courts or financial institutions will give a damn about your implications that it should have been in the game because the game functions perfectly."
Well, there you lost me. That's such an absolute and massive statement, I would love to know how you can state that with such certainty. The game does not function perfectly. I don't even know if that's hyperbolic or...?
I don't know what your "inventory management quibble" is.
What makes you think that free key mapping is more than a feature, and falls under a different category when it comes to decide whether one is eligible for a refund or not? "No companies, courts or financial institutions will give a damn about your implications that it should have been in the game because the game functions perfectly."
Well, there you lost me. That's such an absolute and massive statement, I would love to know how you can state that with such certainty. The game does not function perfectly. I don't even know if that's hyperbolic or...?
I don't know what your "inventory management quibble" is.
Inventory quibble from post 124: I expected that all the previously read books in the game will move to the journal so they wouldn't clutter the inventory. I have a really hard time finding certain documents now, it takes a considerable time away doing so, and I fully expect CDPR to compensate me for this lost time.
My statement was about the implications people make about game features, not the game being functional, but nice try there. I don't know why would you even doubt that the game is fully functional: you can load it up, play with it, complete it. It lacks a certain convenience feature which in no way stops you from playing.
foo_
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foo_ Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Austria
mmarci
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mmarci Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2011
From United Kingdom
WolfEisberg
Ice Wolf
WolfEisberg Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2009
From United States
Posted May 27, 2015
Ryuubei: So GOG have made a big thing about having a 30day refund policy, well guess what it's BS. I physically can't play the game because of the games screwing over left handed mice (again) and none rebindable keys. So i requested a refund. IMO it's justifiable, since i can't play the damn game. Only GOG reply is tough shit, go tell CD Red, or we can give you store credit.
So yeah, so much for a friendly 30 day refund policy. Normally i'd let it slide, since i don't really buy games here, or for that much. I specifically bought Witcher 3 here because of that refund policy, which should have covered me against being screwed over by the developer.
Guess GOG is all about the $$ in the end. Time to call the credit card company and recover it that way
The 30 day refund was about technical issues, disagreeing with a control scheme is not a technical issue. The game works. So yeah, so much for a friendly 30 day refund policy. Normally i'd let it slide, since i don't really buy games here, or for that much. I specifically bought Witcher 3 here because of that refund policy, which should have covered me against being screwed over by the developer.
Guess GOG is all about the $$ in the end. Time to call the credit card company and recover it that way
The good news is they have added rebinding of the keys.
MrBMT
Keane Survivor
MrBMT Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From United Kingdom
Posted May 27, 2015
IMO, keybindings are an engine feature, which aid in accessibility - considering GOG made their own engine, rather than buying/using a pre-made one, I wouldn't expect said feature by there by default as CDPR need to implement it themselves.
I have moderate Protan (mainly red/green) colour blindness and so have a really hard time following some of the scent trails because I can't distinguish it from the grass some of the time (sometimes it's simply impossible for me to see it). There are no colour blind options for the at all game, this makes it hard for me to play the game sometimes. Think I should get a refund for that too?
If not, what makes one a 'basic accessibility' feature in your opinion and the other not?
I have moderate Protan (mainly red/green) colour blindness and so have a really hard time following some of the scent trails because I can't distinguish it from the grass some of the time (sometimes it's simply impossible for me to see it). There are no colour blind options for the at all game, this makes it hard for me to play the game sometimes. Think I should get a refund for that too?
If not, what makes one a 'basic accessibility' feature in your opinion and the other not?
Post edited May 27, 2015 by MrBMT
tsenng
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tsenng Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2015
From United Kingdom
foo_
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foo_ Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Austria
MarkoH01
The goose rules!
MarkoH01 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2009
From Germany
Posted May 27, 2015
MarkoH01: Both are functioning normally but in a predefined way which still can be changed by editing config files and(or using additional programs or special mouse drivers
foo_: No, editing the config files didn't work. It has been improved, but some parts still don't work. And that is what the entire fuzz is about: hardcoded or blocked keys. foo_: About the external software: if you've got a workaround for your needs, good for you.
Other people can't use it because it gets detected as "cheat software", or conflicts with the accessiblity software they need to use a keyboard at all.
Have you tried GlovePie which I mentioned earlier? It does not need to be installed at all it just runs in the background. Other people can't use it because it gets detected as "cheat software", or conflicts with the accessiblity software they need to use a keyboard at all.
But they ARE a possible solution for those who needs them.
I don't get the point here. The game behaves normally in the usual way you might expect a PC game to do. Your example with the car cannot be considered normal at all.
Post edited May 27, 2015 by MarkoH01
foo_
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foo_ Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Austria
Posted May 27, 2015
MrBMT: IMO, keybindings are an engine feature, which aid in accessibility - considering GOG made their own engine, rather than buying/using a pre-made one, I wouldn't expect said feature by there by default as CDPR need to implement it themselves.
I have moderate Protan (mainly red/green) colour blindness and so have a really hard time following some of the scent trails because I can't distinguish it from the grass some of the time (sometimes it's simply impossible for me to see it). There are no colour blind options for the at all game, this makes it hard for me to play the game sometimes. Think I should get a refund for that too?
I don't know whether you should - if it renders the game unplayable, I think a good seller will refund it out of goodwill. I have moderate Protan (mainly red/green) colour blindness and so have a really hard time following some of the scent trails because I can't distinguish it from the grass some of the time (sometimes it's simply impossible for me to see it). There are no colour blind options for the at all game, this makes it hard for me to play the game sometimes. Think I should get a refund for that too?
Legally, there is little ground for a refund in this case, since it is not a standard property of comparable products.
One difference is that it is not specific quests that are harder - you need it to play the game at all.
That having said, I do think devs should care about colourblind gamers as well. About 8% of male population have colour vision issues of some degree; that should be worth the effort to make some CLUT during design and testing to see whether an UI works then as well.
I haven't tried it myself yet, but in the rendering.ini and user.settings, there is a number of configuration options including those regarding colour. Somewhere in the game, there is a colour value for those trails. It can be changed. Whether that change is simple or difficult is something CDPR have control over.
And this is where both issues are similar again.
You may not feel "disabled" in a way ablegamers.com or specialeffect.co.uk focus on.