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The Witcher 2Just what is "UberSampling"?(25 posts)(25 posts)
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Posted May 19, 2011
I've seen a lot of threads about framerate and UberSampling, and I've also noticed a marked increase in frames when turning off this feature, but without and noticeable loss in visual quality. Just what exactly is UberSampling, and why does it slow frames so much?
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Posted May 19, 2011
"Ubersampling: high quality rendering mode under which whole scenes are rendered multiple times to provide the best possible textures, object details and anti-aliasing (superior to anti-alias and anisotropy even on the highest settings). Use with caution, only on top-end computers (best possible in terms of both GPU and CPU)."

All this stuff is in the readme.txt
Posted May 19, 2011
So how does that differ from supersampling?
Posted May 19, 2011
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Lehti: So how does that differ from supersampling?
Supersampling renders the scene once in higher resolution and then scales it down to screen resolution.
Posted May 19, 2011
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Lehti: So how does that differ from supersampling?
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Bluekkis: Supersampling renders the scene once in higher resolution and then scales it down to screen resolution.
Yes, I know. The issue is that unless the rendering is done from a different camera perspective or with some type of jitter (just guessing here), there's no benefit. Rendering a 3D scene is determinstic, i.e., you get the same result every time.

I'm just wondering about the details, as it sounds interesting.
Post edited May 19, 2011 by Lehti
Posted May 19, 2011
The devs have mentioned issues right now with Ubersampling and said just to turn it off until they get it fixed. Most likely that's why you didn't really notice any difference in visual quality but still got a increase in fps.
Posted May 19, 2011
It's the setting everyone who doesn't have multiple graphics cards should turn off!

I couldn't see the difference on 1920x1080 so I assume its meant for large screens/eyefinity.
Posted May 19, 2011
well, there is a difference. with the setting on, the game gets unnecessary blurred. which sucks, because tw2 has some great hires textures.
Posted May 19, 2011
Ubersampling behaves more like the renderer in proffesional 3D software such as 3DS MAX and Maya. The frame or element is sampled multiple times (not sure how many in this game but probably between 4 and 8) and then jitter composited. This results in much more accurate rendering of all screen elements such a shadows, SSAO and transparencies. For example, if the frame is only rendered once with 8 samples per pixel then the effects show artifacts (as can be seen with Ubersampling off and sharpening on), but if that frame is rendered 8 times then the image will be smoother and these artifacts will become less prominent. Likewise a frame with 16 samples per pixel will only need to be rendered 4 times to achieve the same result. I'm guessing that the game uses between 4 and 8 samples per pixel, per frame as 16, 32 or higher would be far too costly in terms of rendering overhead.

Note: I'm not talking about frame bit depth here, wich is most probably 32.

Confused? Don't worry. The important thing to know is that you should turn it off until about 2013 when the next wave of consoles hit and the average PC has enough grunt due to it becoming a commonplace effect.
Post edited May 19, 2011 by ragholio
Posted May 19, 2011
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ragholio: Ubersampling behaves more like the renderer in proffesional 3D software such as 3DS MAX and Maya. The frame or element is sampled multiple times (not sure how many in this game but probably between 4 and 8) and then jitter composited. This results in much more accurate rendering of all screen elements such a shadows, SSAO and transparencies. For example, if the frame is only rendered once with 8 samples per pixel then the effects show artifacts (as can be seen with Ubersampling off and sharpening on), but if that frame is rendered 8 times then the image will be smoother and these artifacts will become less prominent. Likewise a frame with 16 samples per pixel will only need to be rendered 4 times to achieve the same result. I'm guessing that the game uses between 4 and 8 samples per pixel, per frame as 16, 32 or higher would be far too costly in terms of rendering overhead.

Note: I'm not talking about frame bit depth here, wich is most probably 32.

Confused? Don't worry. The important thing to know is that you should turn it off until about 2013 when the next wave of consoles hit and the average PC has enough grunt due to it becoming a commonplace effect.
Ok, I think I got it. Is there a more common term for the algorithm other than "übersampling"?
Posted May 19, 2011
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kendrix: well, there is a difference. with the setting on, the game gets unnecessary blurred. which sucks, because tw2 has some great hires textures.
No, that's the "motion blur". Apparently, from the descriptions I'm reading, Ubersampling is rendering each frame multiple times, which exaggerates a function that already exaggerates a visual device meant to convey the "blurring" the human eye perceives as when turning your head or moving your eyes really fast. Imagine watching a DVD on "Single-frame-advance" mode during such a time as when the motion blur function is being displayed. It only looks like it's more blurry because Ubersampling is slowing down the framerate enough to keep the blur effects on screen longer than was intended.

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Lehti: Ok, I think I got it. Is there a more common term for the algorithm other than "übersampling"?
Probably not, since it looks to be a proprietary CDPR technology. Their tech, their terminology.
Post edited May 19, 2011 by predcon
Posted May 19, 2011
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kendrix: well, there is a difference. with the setting on, the game gets unnecessary blurred. which sucks, because tw2 has some great hires textures.
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predcon: No, that's the "motion blur". Apparently, from the descriptions I'm reading, Ubersampling is rendering each frame multiple times, which exaggerates a function that already exaggerates a visual device meant to convey the "blurring" the human eye perceives as when turning your head or moving your eyes really fast. Imagine watching a DVD on "Single-frame-advance" mode during such a time as when the motion blur function is being displayed. It only looks like it's more blurry because Ubersampling is slowing down the framerate enough to keep the blur effects on screen longer than was intended.

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Lehti: Ok, I think I got it. Is there a more common term for the algorithm other than "übersampling"?
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predcon: Probably not, since it looks to be a proprietary CDPR technology. Their tech, their terminology.
Unless I missed the point by a mile, Ubersampling is an advanced and computationally intensive (eats FPS) anti-aliasing technique. Doesn't contribute to motion blur at all.
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Lehti: Ok, I think I got it. Is there a more common term for the algorithm other than "übersampling"?
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predcon: Probably not, since it looks to be a proprietary CDPR technology. Their tech, their terminology.
No SIGGRAPH paper then? :P ^_^
Post edited May 19, 2011 by Lehti
Posted May 19, 2011
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ragholio: Ubersampling behaves more like the renderer in proffesional 3D software such as 3DS MAX and Maya. The frame or element is sampled multiple times (not sure how many in this game but probably between 4 and 8) and then jitter composited. This results in much more accurate rendering of all screen elements such a shadows, SSAO and transparencies. For example, if the frame is only rendered once with 8 samples per pixel then the effects show artifacts (as can be seen with Ubersampling off and sharpening on), but if that frame is rendered 8 times then the image will be smoother and these artifacts will become less prominent. Likewise a frame with 16 samples per pixel will only need to be rendered 4 times to achieve the same result. I'm guessing that the game uses between 4 and 8 samples per pixel, per frame as 16, 32 or higher would be far too costly in terms of rendering overhead.

Note: I'm not talking about frame bit depth here, wich is most probably 32.

Confused? Don't worry. The important thing to know is that you should turn it off until about 2013 when the next wave of consoles hit and the average PC has enough grunt due to it becoming a commonplace effect.
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Lehti: Ok, I think I got it. Is there a more common term for the algorithm other than "übersampling"?
It used to be called "full-screen anti-aliasing" (FSAA). It was dropped by GPU makers because it is so inefficient, then reinstated in recent GPUs because they have enough computing power to do it (Fermi and Northern Islands GPUs have it).

It's pretty inefficient to compute, because you need to render every frame 2 to 4 times, rather than traditional AA, which applies a more capable filter only to the edges in the frame designated for AA. Also, its performance is that of a simple first-order moving-average filter, which does little except soften the image's focus.
Post edited May 19, 2011 by cjrgreen
Posted May 19, 2011
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Lehti: Ok, I think I got it. Is there a more common term for the algorithm other than "übersampling"?
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cjrgreen: It used to be called "full-screen anti-aliasing" (FSAA). It was dropped by GPU makers because it is so inefficient, then reinstated in recent GPUs because they have enough computing power to do it (Fermi and Northern Islands GPUs have it).

It's pretty inefficient to compute, because you need to render every frame 2 to 4 times, rather than traditional AA, which applies a more capable filter only to the edges in the frame designated for AA. Also, its performance is that of a simple first-order moving-average filter, which does little except soften the image's focus.
Ah, now I see. That's what it sounded like to me, but I've only got a little experience with 3D renderers, so I thought that I was missing something.

Thanks for the info!
Posted May 19, 2011
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Lehti: Unless I missed the point by a mile, Ubersampling is an advanced and computationally intensive (eats FPS) anti-aliasing technique. Doesn't contribute to motion blur at all.
I didn't say it contributed, I said it exaggerated. Motion Blur is really only meant to be applied to quick camera movements (ex. A quick head-turn of half a second) . When you apply something that drastically reduces framerate to a camera-blurring effect, that effect stays on screen longer than intended.
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The Witcher 2Just what is "UberSampling"?(25 posts)(25 posts)
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