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The Witcher 2CDP knew of bad DRM performance(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 27, 2011
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Jaft: Oh man, I read StarForce earlier in the thread. I absolutely hate Starforce. That's possibly the worse DRM I have ever had to deal with. I literally could not get past that shart to play my game - that I received from my cousin because he said he couldn't play it - and after much frustration, I just threw the box out.

Starforce is the DEVIL.

THE DEVIL.
Ready about this one. Not sure which is worse but since SecuROM has been used more often its the one people want to hate more. But I agree, the reports I've read on Starforce are not good. How bad did it mess up your MS gaming box?
Posted May 27, 2011
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Jaft: Oh man, I read StarForce earlier in the thread. I absolutely hate Starforce. That's possibly the worse DRM I have ever had to deal with. I literally could not get past that shart to play my game - that I received from my cousin because he said he couldn't play it - and after much frustration, I just threw the box out.

Starforce is the DEVIL.

THE DEVIL.
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jlibster: Ready about this one. Not sure which is worse but since SecuROM has been used more often its the one people want to hate more. But I agree, the reports I've read on Starforce are not good. How bad did it mess up your MS gaming box?
O.o The Xbox? I was talking about the game box with it's cd, manual and other stuff inside. It was unplayable. And I just discovered a bunch of hidden StarForce registry keys still making love in my computer. I just removed them. -____- At least the securom ones aren't hidden like that.

I'm so glad that the Russians can play the game without it now. At least, that's what I think I read. That's a huge, huge blessing from the gods of gaming.
Post edited May 27, 2011 by Jaft
Posted May 27, 2011
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jlibster: = PS: you are in fact incorrect about nearly all game having DRM. Do more research in gaming outside of the mainstream super hyped media and you'll find them. Particularly the indie channels. There are MANY games (and many run in Linux FYI, of commercial grade) wth no DRM. most (if not all) Flash based games out there have no DRM either. I know this because I've purchased and tested them. Top ones that come to mind: Amnesia, Penumbra, Mechanium, World of Goo, Stitch in Time, and many others.
You do realize that most DRM solutions are prohibitively expensive for smaller studios, right? It's small enough of a cost for multimillion dollar system-sellers, but for a tiny studio making less money per sale on lower quality(that is, lower TECHNICAL quality) games produced by smaller staffs, the cost FAR outweighs the benefits even IF the DRM did exactly what it purports to do.

Not saying you're wrong, but there's a sort of difference in scale and logistics here.
Posted May 27, 2011
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jlibster: Ready about this one. Not sure which is worse but since SecuROM has been used more often its the one people want to hate more. But I agree, the reports I've read on Starforce are not good. How bad did it mess up your MS gaming box?
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Jaft: O.o The Xbox? I was talking about the game box with it's cd, manual and other stuff inside. It was unplayable. And I just discovered a bunch of hidden StarForce registry keys still making love in my computer. I just removed them. -____- At least the securom ones aren't hidden like that.

I'm so glad that the Russians can play the game without it now. At least, that's what I think I read. That's a huge, huge blessing from the gods of gaming.
Sorry, when I said "box" I meant as in PC tower. As in MS XP/Vista/7 gaming tower (or box). Not Xbox.. Sorry for the confusion....LOL

Oh, and actually I think if you check the action list carefull in SecuROM removal tool (non-techies need a tool), I you'll see that SecuROM uses what are known as "null registry keys" that are a #$%# to remove. If you Google "securom null registry key" you'll see it soon enough.
Post edited May 27, 2011 by jlibster
Posted May 27, 2011
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jlibster: = PS: you are in fact incorrect about nearly all game having DRM. Do more research in gaming outside of the mainstream super hyped media and you'll find them. Particularly the indie channels. There are MANY games (and many run in Linux FYI, of commercial grade) wth no DRM. most (if not all) Flash based games out there have no DRM either. I know this because I've purchased and tested them. Top ones that come to mind: Amnesia, Penumbra, Mechanium, World of Goo, Stitch in Time, and many others.
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RatherDashing: You do realize that most DRM solutions are prohibitively expensive for smaller studios, right? It's small enough of a cost for multimillion dollar system-sellers, but for a tiny studio making less money per sale on lower quality(that is, lower TECHNICAL quality) games produced by smaller staffs, the cost FAR outweighs the benefits even IF the DRM did exactly what it purports to do.

Not saying you're wrong, but there's a sort of difference in scale and logistics here.
"Size matters not, for my ally, is the force....".

You should remember that CDPR is also a "smaller" company than, say EA, MS or other gaming studios. There is the common and incorrect assumption that larger company=better game. Not so. Amnesia is one of the best examples. Freaking PERFECT for Halloween (or anytime you want to scare yourself or get an extra hug from a date...). Or "World of Goo". Or "Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness", who later made "Deathspank" after EA bought them out. Check out the reviews on these or better yet, PLAY them. (only $20) I mentioned professional level games as examples. Meaning they rival in quality to the "big names". You also forget that more "big names" these days are not making their own games as much as buying out more creative small names,

For those of you looking for the next upcoming near-traditional RPG of giant company quality google, "Age of Decadencee". Looks like one of the most promising old-school RPG games in years.
Posted May 27, 2011
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Tobech: What should they have done? Atari did most likely demand securom. Quite a few games have had succes with the securom activation drm, in that it prevents pirates from playing before launch.
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eisberg77: Unfortunetly, the pirated version was available and playable prior to the game releasing. So in this case, Securom did nothing for Day 0 piracy. The only thing that securom did was decrease our performance.
No it wasn't, get your facts straight. It was only available once the Polish CE had received it's activation on May 16th. There were no working cracks before that, and all TW2 torrents were only the game's uncracked data, aka what is on retail discs.
Posted May 27, 2011
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jlibster: "Size matters not, for my ally, is the force....".

You should remember that CDPR is also a "smaller" company than, say EA, MS or other gaming studios. There is the common and incorrect assumption that larger company=better game. Not so. Amnesia is one of the best examples. Freaking PERFECT for Halloween (or anytime you want to scare yourself or get an extra hug from a date...). Or "World of Goo". Or "Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness", who later made "Deathspank" after EA bought them out. Check out the reviews on these or better yet, PLAY them. (only $20) I mentioned professional level games as examples. Meaning they rival in quality to the "big names". You also forget that more "big names" these days are not making their own games as much as buying out more creative small names,

For those of you looking for the next upcoming near-traditional RPG of giant company quality google, "Age of Decadencee". Looks like one of the most promising old-school RPG games in years.n
I'm arguing "bigger company=bigger budget". I'm an indie game fan myself. But smaller studios have less money, pay out less money, and bring in less money. As a cost concern, DRM is way too much for a smaller studio. While smaller studios also are generally better ethically, remember that from a logistical standpoint, a wholly selfish and cynical one, a smaller studio can't AFFORD to do DRM, because it cuts THAT much of their profits. Larger studios, with larger budgets, are relatively unaffected. It's simple finances.

The Witcher 2, compared to Amnesia or World of Goo, had a MASSIVE budget. To see a game of this technical quality(higher resolution textures, fancy effects, looks better on a technical level than any other game released in its time) get anything even approaching a legitimate DRM-free release is fantastic and nigh unprecedented if not ACTUALLY unprecedented in the current marketplace.
Posted May 27, 2011
Let's keep this in mind.

CDPR said they had a budget of 10.8 million.

Dragon Age 2 had a budget of 48 million.

Does money really matter?:P
Posted May 27, 2011
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jlibster: For those of you looking for the next upcoming near-traditional RPG of giant company quality google, "Age of Decadencee". Looks like one of the most promising old-school RPG games in years.
I've been watching this one for a couple years now. I'm very much looking forward to it. Hopefully it's out by the end of this year.
Posted May 27, 2011
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jlibster: For those of you looking for the next upcoming near-traditional RPG of giant company quality google, "Age of Decadencee". Looks like one of the most promising old-school RPG games in years.
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Coelocanth: I've been watching this one for a couple years now. I'm very much looking forward to it. Hopefully it's out by the end of this year.
I'm pins and needls about that one. Purchased one of their $20 postcards (yes, ONE postcard LOL) to support the development. Really hoping it gets released at same time as Skyrim. That would be a very Merry Christmas to all!
Posted May 27, 2011
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jlibster: "Size matters not, for my ally, is the force....".

You should remember that CDPR is also a "smaller" company than, say EA, MS or other gaming studios. There is the common and incorrect assumption that larger company=better game. Not so. Amnesia is one of the best examples. Freaking PERFECT for Halloween (or anytime you want to scare yourself or get an extra hug from a date...). Or "World of Goo". Or "Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness", who later made "Deathspank" after EA bought them out. Check out the reviews on these or better yet, PLAY them. (only $20) I mentioned professional level games as examples. Meaning they rival in quality to the "big names". You also forget that more "big names" these days are not making their own games as much as buying out more creative small names,

For those of you looking for the next upcoming near-traditional RPG of giant company quality google, "Age of Decadencee". Looks like one of the most promising old-school RPG games in years.n
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RatherDashing: I'm arguing "bigger company=bigger budget". I'm an indie game fan myself. But smaller studios have less money, pay out less money, and bring in less money. As a cost concern, DRM is way too much for a smaller studio. While smaller studios also are generally better ethically, remember that from a logistical standpoint, a wholly selfish and cynical one, a smaller studio can't AFFORD to do DRM, because it cuts THAT much of their profits. Larger studios, with larger budgets, are relatively unaffected. It's simple finances.

The Witcher 2, compared to Amnesia or World of Goo, had a MASSIVE budget. To see a game of this technical quality(higher resolution textures, fancy effects, looks better on a technical level than any other game released in its time) get anything even approaching a legitimate DRM-free release is fantastic and nigh unprecedented if not ACTUALLY unprecedented in the current marketplace.
Read an article you may find interesting

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6315009/index.html?tag=updates%3Beditor%3Ball%3Btitle%3B10

It makes some interesting points in line with the posting about budgets and talks about conditions that would promote more indie development.(He doesn't say this directly but tallks about rethinking the game business model which indie games do) More important, more EFFICIENT gaming development. Witcher 2 with its 10.8 mil is from all reports better than the nearly quadruple budget of DA2 (and better graphics perhaps at the cost of more bugs). Graphics seem to be the most expensive aspect of gaming development. Ironically, I still prefer BG and Icewind Dale 1/2 to DA:O. Its all about story-telling in an RPG. If we just wanted graphics, we could all take a walk outside our virtual worlds and find an art gallery. The Korean and Chinese artists are doing wonders in the fantasy type genere. Anyway, food for thought.
Post edited May 27, 2011 by jlibster
Posted May 27, 2011
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electropretzel: I am saying that now instead of downloading the game from torrent and direct downloads people can download the game right from the publishers if they have the link. it's like they own the legal copy. Instead of looking on the internet for a download + crack + solutions they've got a welcome messege from CDP. Good job, Instead of selling 100K more copies they prefare to give them free and make it easier for people to download the game and all the free DLC that will come later (from what i know they didn't mean free DLC for pirates).
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Coelocanth: It's going to make zero difference in sales. Zero. Once a cracked copy is available, everyone that wants it illegally is going to get it. Doesn't matter what CDPR does at this point.

Having said that, where, exactly, do you see CDPR having the actual game itself available for DL for anyone that wants to steal it?
a group of 10 people want to play the game so each of them puts 10$ and they buy it together, download and enjoy it a legal copy. now lets make it 50 people. Moreover, not everyone know how to put cracks and use keygens - thats why they prefare to buy the game. now they have the game on the internet without any need to download cracks or any other shit they need. Well instead of selling 80k more copies CDP prefare to give them away.
Posted May 27, 2011
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electropretzel: a group of 10 people want to play the game so each of them puts 10$ and they buy it together, download and enjoy it a legal copy. now lets make it 50 people. Moreover, not everyone know how to put cracks and use keygens - thats why they prefare to buy the game. now they have the game on the internet without any need to download cracks or any other shit they need. Well instead of selling 80k more copies CDP prefare to give them away.
As I already noted, if people are going to steal the game, they're going to steal the game. And make no mistake - the site rules here tie the game to your account (for the purposes of being able to DL the files). If whoever owns the account is sharing the files, they're completely breaking their agreement with GOG and they're contributing to piracy. Are you seriously postulating that this hypothetical person and his/her friends would be above DLing a cracked copy of the retail game? And are you seriously postulating that they wouldn't know how to obtain a cracked copy?

Your argument is ludicrous.
Posted May 27, 2011
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Cyjack: You would have to be online to download DLC and patches anyway, so I see no point here. Publishers dont send that stuff out on floppies anymore, and havent for more than a decade. TW2 launcher is not "DRM-lite", unless you misunderstand what DRM is. Not all copy protection is DRM in the way we have come to identify it. Nearly all games have some form of token copy protection, and pretty much always have had. TW2 launcher doesnt run in the background scanning your system, inhibit you from installing the game wherever or whenever you want, prevent you from activating the game, or require you to be online to play the game.
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jlibster: PS: you are in fact incorrect about nearly all game having DRM. Do more research in gaming outside of the mainstream super hyped media and you'll find them. Particularly the indie channels. There are MANY games (and many run in Linux FYI, of commercial grade) wth no DRM. most (if not all) Flash based games out there have no DRM either. I know this because I've purchased and tested them. Top ones that come to mind: Amnesia, Penumbra, Mechanium, World of Goo, Stitch in Time, and many others.
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Why can you not follow this? I just said, not all Copy Protection is DRM as we commonly define the term, and most games you buy retail have always had some form of token copy protection, via a serial number, disk protection, or what have you, and they have had it for decades, since I started buying pc games in the 90s.

Your definition of DRM is overly broad. TW2 launcher is not "DRM-lite" . STEAM is DRM lite, or at least a light DRM solution that is reasonably benign and inobtrusive, but DRM all the same.

We are talking about high profile retail releases here, not some browser flash game that nobody would care about anyway.
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jlibster: You seem very quick to defend Internet based DRM schemas which is interesting given how badly this one played out.
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Maybe. But I'm not the idiot who knowingly bought a game with SECUROM on it, so Ive got that going for me.
Post edited May 27, 2011 by Cyjack
Posted May 27, 2011
Is The Onion going to have to post a new Headline!!

All games now DRMless due to public uproar!! Baglady finds unopened retail boxed games can't use em, no internet!!

I didn't care if DRM or M&M was in the game I bought it because I wanted to play the Withcher, the GOG thing was a bonus they are the ones who emailed me with the discount offer so I bit.. only 45 bucks for all that!!
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This is my favourite topic
Community
The Witcher 2CDP knew of bad DRM performance(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)