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The Longest Journey/Dreamfall seriesLet us talk about Book 3 (SPOILERS)(32 posts)(32 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 27, 2015
So I just finished Book 3 and there are SO many questions plus the feeling of brevity in it that needs to be addressed.

This topic is going to reveal MAJOR SPOILERS so... yeah. You've been forewarned.







Okay, so right from the very beginning of Book 3, the player got the little Saga walking around looking for these drawings which is incredibly difficult to find with the game's way of interacting with the environment.

I liked the way the drawings little Saga drew were of April Ryan's adventures in "The Longest Journey" but I felt like it took up way too much time in the beginning. Felt very drawn out (no pun intended). It feels like Saga might be April Ryan 'reincarnated' and her Mother, which I am spit-balling here, is the Guardian of the Balance, of whoever that person is to be that balances out Arcadia from Mercuria and vice-versa. Just a guess.

Next bit, depending on folks played when it comes to Kian Alvane so it might be different for others' who might have kissed Anna, it seems that, speaking with Enu (again, my playthrough so results may vary) Kian is gay. Which is interesting but at the same time... seems out of place.

To me, in Dreamfall, Kian and April Ryan had sort of this attraction to one another as well as respect. In Dreamfall Chapters, there's Anna (whom Kian may accept the kiss or back away from it) and then Enu, with her flirtations. Even though Kian, from what I remember does not notice women in such a way of attractiveness, it seems odd with that choice considering Anna from Book 2. The way I thought of it was that I had no idea whether she was who she said she was(which turned out true but not in the super-secret spy way I envisioned), the whole emotional point was rushed, and if what she felt was real, I'd want to know who she was and develop a relationship on a real level.

Then to find out that he's not really interested in women and then ending the game and having that screen come up with how folks react toward his personal life... I don't know. In one way, I can understand that being more with the rebels is allowing Kian to relax and allow his true self to 'come out' in a sense, but in another... really? I feel like it could have been treated a bit better.

And if that's the case, I'll have to start over and start getting a much better relationship going with Likho. Power of Love between those two would help out a lot, possibly.

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Even with that machinist engineer talking about "the machine", still have no idea what it is or why it is created. Though it is getting to a point where a whole lot of backstabbing is about to take place.

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AH! CROW!

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You know what relationship I did believe though? Hanna and her girlfriend (whose name escapes me at the moment). Again, my playthrough might be different than yours, but when it came to getting down to the sewers and they split up, it felt like there was a foundation for that to build on from the previous book. It was much more grounded.

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Shitbot is now Awesomebot and I am not even mad.

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Weird how quickly Mira went to that annoying person that I could not help but like, to someone that I could like but still was too quick to agitate.

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Ominoreg!

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I really want Enu and Crow to meet up and just have a conversation or TEN for the players to listen in on. So much joy would be had with that.

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Easy enough to find that Rebel location, plus being led into their sanc..OHMYG-O-S-H they are about to meet. We're about to have that back-forth conversation like what Kian and April had in Dreamfall and it's going to be awes...Nope. We'll wait until book 4, maybe.

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Kian/Enu fanfic needs to happen.

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Stealth section? Well, that submission seems quick and a little TOO easy.

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I see, Likho. Wait for me to take care of the guards by myself so then you can get on board the ship? Pfft, yeah, right. You stay behind.

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Alright, now to see what is happening to Zoe or maybe catch a glimpse of the prison camp before something crazy happens..wait, that's it? We're done?

Compared to the first two books, this one felt so...empty. There did not seem like a lot of exposition about the surrounding areas or at least time to really talk to the people, to get to understand their motivations, their backgrounds, etc. Even when the statistics flowed passed and a lot of the choices were not impacting the story at all, it seemed... weak.



I am probably a little spoiled after playing Season 1 of the "Walking Dead", that third episode got me riled up. A whole lot of development into characters, sudden changes and choices that were memorable in that very episode that'd follow to the fourth and final episode were fantastic.

Maybe this Book is where a lot of choices come together after the first two books, which would mean that this book could go smoothly depending on your choices from previous books, or it could get difficult.




It felt incomplete. Like waking up and remembering bits and pieces of a dream. What are your thoughts, folks?
Posted June 28, 2015
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Post edited June 01, 2017 by mfxbe
Posted June 28, 2015
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Jerichomccoy: Next bit, depending on folks played when it comes to Kian Alvane so it might be different for others' who might have kissed Anna, it seems that, speaking with Enu (again, my playthrough so results may vary) Kian is gay. Which is interesting but at the same time... seems out of place.

To me, in Dreamfall, Kian and April Ryan had sort of this attraction to one another as well as respect. In Dreamfall Chapters, there's Anna (whom Kian may accept the kiss or back away from it) and then Enu, with her flirtations. Even though Kian, from what I remember does not notice women in such a way of attractiveness, it seems odd with that choice considering Anna from Book 2. The way I thought of it was that I had no idea whether she was who she said she was(which turned out true but not in the super-secret spy way I envisioned), the whole emotional point was rushed, and if what she felt was real, I'd want to know who she was and develop a relationship on a real level.

Then to find out that he's not really interested in women and then ending the game and having that screen come up with how folks react toward his personal life... I don't know. In one way, I can understand that being more with the rebels is allowing Kian to relax and allow his true self to 'come out' in a sense, but in another... really? I feel like it could have been treated a bit better.
I think it more accurate to say he's gay by default since soldiers can't enter into relationship with women, so he never did have a choice in the matter.
Posted June 30, 2015
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Ingsoc85: I think it more accurate to say he's gay by default since soldiers can't enter into relationship with women, so he never did have a choice in the matter.
Kian is gay, no matter what choice you make. And that has nothing to do with the rules and norms of the Azadi, as RTG tells us. He was – no suprise to anyone please – born that way.

Kian and April had just about two scenes together. Kian was fascinated by an air of familiarity he sensed with the person. And, of course, being racist against magicals and growing up in a matriarchal society, listening to the words of a human female is in his blood. Add to that April's boldness to speak in the oppressor's face and Blind Bob's your uncle. Sure, you could think of a romantic vibe, easily, and due to the Lady Alvane conundrum, construct a likely theory. But that's all it was, just theory. And stories are about playing ping pong with the listener's expectation. So, well, nothing out of the ordinary here, actually.

As to the Anna choice, the scene occurred after just about one other situation in which Kian and Anna even met. Whatever you choose here, it's obvious that Anna's advances are coming out of the blue. They're just hinting at a past that Kian does not remember, and they are always felt to be strangely awkward. The choice is "let her" or "pull back" and the inner monolog voiceover makes clear that Kian feels that aimed at confusion. Pulling back would feel impolite to him.

In short, no retcon has taken place here, and although the reveal may feel surprising to some, they haven't made a decision that could be "out of character" for Kian. That's... impossible. :)
Post edited June 30, 2015 by Vainamoinen
Posted July 02, 2015
Ah, yeah, true, true.

It was jarring to me cause of all that you mentioned, Vainamoinen. I am okay with it.

The casualness of it, the "not-a-big-deal" part of it (plus I'm playing it on a day in which the Supreme Court has provided equality to those with that preference), makes sense. He is still a father figure to Bip (which if anything happens to that little blue dude..), Likho is still an ass, and Enu travelling with Crow needs to happen.

And yeah, that whole "Lady Alvane" part.. what does it mean?! Unless, Kian somehow looks after Apr...err, Saga as a daughter and she becomes Lady Alvane through that.

Has anyone stayed with Reza? That whole thing deteriorated quickly from my choices (I know the true you, Reza! Can't fool me!)

...the fourth book I hope has more Crow interaction.
Posted July 03, 2015
First of all I would like to clarify something.Until chapter 2 Kian was not gay, it was not in Dreamfall the longest journey and it was not during the Chapter 1 and Chapter 2.
We see that the idea has popped out at the last minute because it does not hold up with the rest of the story.
With Hanna the fact that she is a lesbian you could tell quite easily, the fact that his report has jumped out in this book 3 was only the conclusion before the battle.
I still remember well her story and, although I'm not gay, I felt invested by his feelings when the girls showed their feelings. Their story is a love story in my eyes, no more, no less.
Kian instead meh ... I have come to know by the developers because in my playthrought he says "I'm not interested in women" (for me = "I am a soldier. Celibate by choice" != "I'm gay").
In any case, the reason is clear, at this time it is fashionable to "support gay", so to make more money now kian is gay (or is their "religion", I do not know) (with "religion" I do not mean religion really).
I say this to avoid misunderstandings, I have nothing against gays, I have many gay friends, many lesbian friends, but kian is a fake gay and developers have created bad this part of his character (or rather was invented in the third chapter ).
I read a lot of manga with gay characters and most are excellent. they could well create another character or better characterize this before if they really wanted kian was gay.
Honestly, this story of the gay pride seems a little fashion (just gay pride... gay is ok).
I agree with giving equal rights for heterosexual and gay (and I do not understand why there is opposition to this), at the same time is a subject that does not interest me...
I have read several comments of gays, everyone seems excited that kian is gay .... to me it's just weird. I would feel the same way if they had suddenly become Hanna did not lesbian (after kissing his girlfriend). weird because Hanna is lesbian. Or Reza gay .... weird

Leaving aside this part (which after all is tiny, but at this time raises the dust), the book three is not bad.
Funny puzzle (for me the best puzzle in the game are here for now), really, I mean, really good story, I damn good story, I mean.... this is a book, a movie story..., good choise and consequence, and good gameplay (short than book 2 but not that short).
In short, forget kian gay and the rest is well done.
as we all know, kian is not gay, he's just "confused" LOL
Seriously, kian is kind of a warrior of the temple has never been interested in women but not gay (and, although the developers to the contrary, they have not demonstrated at the level of story line).

Among other things, the thing that he was born gay I do not understand.
I was not born heterosexual, I have freely decided that I like women.
As far as I know humans can fall in love with people of both genders during their lives.

Finally, it's like when there's a program ecologist (or vegan), at the beginning you agree (in the case of the vegan you can safely accept that someone is vegan, assuming they do not oblige you to be vegan), but when they start to be too insistent, they begin to be boring.
The gay issue is boring.
Post edited July 03, 2015 by LiefLayer
Posted July 24, 2015
The storyline of DFC is not kept on an even keel; it seems to be written on the spur of the moment, depending on how the writer feels at the time. For instance: I'm sure the writer did not intend to turn Kian into a homosexual at the start, but somehow, thought this would probably add flavour to the game (it does not). I would have hoped that Kian was going to turn into an interesting character; he has no personality, he is like a boring cut-out card image!
Post edited July 24, 2015 by Joseph1957
Posted July 24, 2015
I think it more accurate to say he's gay by default since soldiers can't enter into relationship with women, so he never did have a choice in the matter.

Ridiculous comment. No one is gay by default; homosexuals are born that way, they do not become homosexuals afterwards. For instance: A heterosexual will always be a straight person, no matter what the circumstances, the very thought of a straight person having sex with someone of the same sex, would be abhorrent to him. To be homosexual, one needs to have those tendencies of wanting sex with someone of the same gender in the first place.
Post edited July 24, 2015 by Joseph1957
Posted July 26, 2015
That's how it was here as well, of course.

Over in the Steam forums, RTG has been quite clear that they consider Kian to have been born homosexual.
Posted July 28, 2015
Isn't Saga's dad that guy from the very first part of Dreamfall ?

Also, another thing I didn't quite understand: The narrator in TLJ, isn't she April Ryan ?
Never understood how they killed her off like that, assuming she really is the old lady hanging around with Crow telling the story to those kids
Posted July 28, 2015
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Maydawn: Isn't Saga's dad that guy from the very first part of Dreamfall ?

Do you mean at the beginning of Dreamfall Chapters, book two (Rebels)?

Also, another thing I didn't quite understand: The narrator in TLJ, isn't she April Ryan ?
Never understood how they killed her off like that, assuming she really is the old lady hanging around with Crow telling the story to those kids
The first character to speak in TLJ was Lady Alvane (if that is whom you're referring to as the narrator) in "The House of All Worlds" and is voiced by Helen Stenborg.

We don't know yet if Lady Alvane is April Ryan as the old lady one day!
Post edited July 28, 2015 by Joseph1957
Posted July 29, 2015
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Maydawn: Isn't Saga's dad that guy from the very first part of Dreamfall ?

Do you mean at the beginning of Dreamfall Chapters, book two (Rebels)?

Also, another thing I didn't quite understand: The narrator in TLJ, isn't she April Ryan ?
Never understood how they killed her off like that, assuming she really is the old lady hanging around with Crow telling the story to those kids
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Joseph1957: The first character to speak in TLJ was Lady Alvane (if that is whom you're referring to as the narrator) in "The House of All Worlds" and is voiced by Helen Stenborg.

We don't know yet if Lady Alvane is April Ryan as the old lady one day!
I meant Dreamfall the 2nd game, the very start of the game starts with some dude in a monastery, and I somehow came to the conclusion that this is Saga's father. He doesn't appear any more in the game, just in that first part.

How come that old lady is Lady Alvane ? I played all games in the series atleast 3 times and I haven't figured it out :(
on the other hand, I have a really shitty memory :x
Posted July 29, 2015
Spot on analysis and recap - thanks for that!

and yes, the gay thing broke the suspension of disbelief for me. I bought the game to be entertained, not to be indoctrinated with liberal propaganda, but that's just me. I hope others like it.

I think I'm the only one who thinks crow is annoying? His character was just okay in the previous games, and the crowboy-map was dreadful imho.

I'm still excited about all the loose ends coming together. Who is the original dreamer? What's the dreamer's relationship to the UnDreaming?

Zoe is smokin' hot too. I don't care for her new haircut in Propoast, but that's how it goes when you're blown up by Nela.
Posted July 29, 2015
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edfardos: Spot on analysis and recap - thanks for that!

and yes, the gay thing broke the suspension of disbelief for me. I bought the game to be entertained, not to be indoctrinated with liberal propaganda, but that's just me. I hope others like it.

I think I'm the only one who thinks crow is annoying? His character was just okay in the previous games, and the crowboy-map was dreadful imho.

I'm still excited about all the loose ends coming together. Who is the original dreamer? What's the dreamer's relationship to the UnDreaming?

Zoe is smokin' hot too. I don't care for her new haircut in Propoast, but that's how it goes when you're blown up by Nela.
I really don't understand why people got upset by Alvane being gay o.o
It's not necessarily a liberal propaganda, characters can be gay without it being out of context, because some people just are, and that's ok. Fiona [that woman from TLJ, the common room / lobby in April's building was a lesbian and it was ok too]
Posted July 29, 2015
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Joseph1957: The first character to speak in TLJ was Lady Alvane (if that is whom you're referring to as the narrator) in "The House of All Worlds" and is voiced by Helen Stenborg.

We don't know yet if Lady Alvane is April Ryan as the old lady one day!
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Maydawn: I meant Dreamfall the 2nd game, the very start of the game starts with some dude in a monastery, and I somehow came to the conclusion that this is Saga's father. He doesn't appear any more in the game, just in that first part.

How come that old lady is Lady Alvane ? I played all games in the series atleast 3 times and I haven't figured it out :(
on the other hand, I have a really shitty memory :x
The fellow in the monastery is Brian Westhouse. Saga's father is called Magnus and I don't think he is Brian Westhouse in some other form

We don't know who Lady Alvane is, that still remains a mystery (you will have to grab Ragnar Tørnquist by the throat and make him spill the beans).
Post edited July 29, 2015 by Joseph1957
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The Longest Journey/Dreamfall seriesLet us talk about Book 3 (SPOILERS)(32 posts)(32 posts)
(32 posts)