I was wondering how TOEE w/ CO8 mod stacks up to the other Hasbro RPGs.

If i was to get one from Icewind 1 or 2, and BG 1 or 2, or this one. Which one will be the best choice?

I think i tired BG1 back in the day but found that there was no smart UI system going on.
And i see this game uses a wheel to do stuff. I wont have to go through 4 menus to talk to someone or cast a spell will I?
I can deal with a limited amount of hotkeys without being upset.

It's hard to give any recommendations because it's unclear what you are looking for. You don't like BG1's GUI, but don't say what you don't like about it.

If that really was an issue for you though, you should know all infinity engine games have pretty much the same UI, with IWD2's and PST's diverging the most.

I for one don't like ToEE's UI, partially because of the wheel. It's hard to read, difficult to navigate with all the nesting and overall a poor interface paradigm for mouse control. I definitely found it to have a higher learning curve than the IE games, though that's partially due to the 3.5 ruleset being somewhat more complicated than AD&D 2e, and implemented in a more complete way in ToEE than in the IE games.

So, do I have a recommendation in all that? Um... go play BG1 again? And like it this time!!!


Because that one is a good start, and if you can't get into it you'll find the other Infinity Engine games aren't much different.

ToEE is a good game too, but it's decidedly even LESS accessible than any IE game. If you're willing to put the time into dealing with it's interface eccentricities and complex implementation of a complex ruleset, there is some engaging dungeon crawling to be had.

What's really good about ToEE is that it is a VERY accurate rendition of the 3.5 D&D ruleset. And, thus, it can present several difficulties for those not used to them. Things like Attacks of Opportunity, Ready Attacks, flanking, range and such can be daunting if you don't have some P&P experience.

However, once you get a good grasp about the rules, the game is very strategic and fun. Messing around with different party combos is amazing, and the variety presented in the title is definitely worth it, especially at this price.

The Wheel Menu can be cumbersome (especially for spellcasters), but hotkeying favorite spells and actions (such as the Search command) can make things easier.

Also, use the CoE mod pack, which corrects several bugs, adds content to the game and make things generally friendlier.

And, shame on you for not enjoying BG. It is an amazing title, and holds its weight even nowadays. I cannot fathom people who enjoy CRPGs not liking/rushing to get all BG titles. They are THAT good.

Besides differences in GUI-presentation and ruleset-use, the games are all differently paced and written:

Icewind Dale was created to resemble a classic D&D 'dungeon romp': You create a party, get engaged in the plot and explore and hack your way into oblivion.

Baldur's Gate's story is more epic, with lots and lots of small subquests in a more detailed world, and companions with background etc.

ToEE is different still. It's use of the D&D 3.5 ruleset creates very interesting tactical combat-situations that feel more leisurely paced than the other games. (Perhaps partly due to the 'wheel'-interface). It's campaign is set in a smaller (part of a) world and it's story doesn't reach the scale as the other games. This is not necessarily a bad thing. (Though I'm personally not fond of the amount of fedex-quests in the starting village, Hommlet).

I've never played Icewind Dale, but...

IMO, Baldur's Gate has a much better story and is much larger in scope that ToEE. However, ToEE combat is much better done than the quasi-realtime fighting in BG. A game that mixes BG's epicness with ToEEs fighting system would be a dream.

ToEE's interface is also pretty slick compared to BG's, which is pretty dated.

Don't forget Planescape!

Hmm... It seems those were optional, as I didn't even do any of them. I pretty much went straight to the next village.

I think the main point of the Hommlet Fedex quests is to provide you with a risk-free way of gaining a level or two before tackling the fighting :)

ToEE for the tactics.
ToEE is an exploration and tactical combat game, with interaction tacked on to actually qualify as a modern RPG. Being based on the most sane incarnation of the D&D ruleset, it is the only game of the three that can actually aspire to be tactical, and it delivers. Story-wise, it follows the plot of a classic D&D module, which is to say, you've seen such a plot done and redone in hundreds of games since. Community patches are available, additional material is hard to come by.

BG for the strategy and the investment.
Let's face it: AD&D is less tactically interesting. The replayability of BG lies in the long and epic plot, a huge number of NPCs and it being highly moddable, that is, there's a lot of stuff that you can download for free and insert into the game. BG not being able to demand advanced tactics from the player, you can instead concern yourself with strategy, such as inviting and equipping characters, planning exploration (here be dragons; let's get a couple more levels under our belts and then proceed) and managing the cycle of combat-rest-shopping.

The story continues in BG2 (which is not on GOG as of this writing) - although you might experience a disconnect if your BG1 playthrough wasn't close to canonical, and several great characters do not make a reappearance. Thus, BG1 is an investment, and it will demand more investment, but the consensus is that it's worth your time and money.

PS:T for the roleplaying.
PS:T takes the CRPG conventions and turns them upside down, this is how it rises above the status of cult classic and becomes a timeless treasure and an outstanding achievement of the creative genius. While most games let you customize your character's name, appearance, gender, alignment and whatnot and then make you follow the beaten path, PS:T makes you play a character with a very distinctive - but fixed - appearance, NO NAME at all and unprecedented roleplaying options. Plus, if you so wish, you'll be accompanied by the awesomest party members ever - and yes, this is all part of the story.

The "good ending" of the story is very satisfying, but far from happy, even less happy are the bad endings, including a number of premature ones, which are outright horrifying. Did I mention that dying permanently is the win condition of the game?

However, the game lacks certain difficulty-increasing elements. It's likely you'll be too engrossed in the story to notice, but it's really obvious if you know what to look for. (Still, I reckon it would be impossible to get rid of the bad of AD&D and release a game based on a D&D setting in 1999.)

There's no planning advancement - PS:T breaks a number of rules in this regard, giving you attribute points with every level gained and the ability to switch classes in the middle of the game. No worrying about equipment: party members bring their own stuff, and in the few cases you find an upgrade, you know who's going to wield/wear it. No managing party composition except in a roleplaying sense: battles are really easy.

Now, all these could be viewed as advantages: not being distracted by the necessity to decorate your character like a Christmas tree, choosing companions you like as people instead of by combat effectiveness, selecting the dialogue options you feel like selecting instead of what brings moar XP, sheer power that can be ascribed to you remembering and invoking your former glory (as per the plot) instead of training from "this end is for stabbing" upwards.

The bad part is where story progress is based on Wisdom, Intelligence and in a lesser way Charisma, so you just have to be a wizard, invest heavily in the two former stats and have a Charisma-increasing spell up. Sure, "mundanes suck" can be also viewed as a moral and a plot point, but it's kinda heavy-handed.

Patches and content restoration packs are available.

Bottom line: epic - finished - happy, pick any two.

I second this. Arriving at the moathouse during the night for the first time, with all the fireflies moving around etc. and eerie, well composed music really got me. Very atmospheric stuff.

To me TOEE is DnD. It just does it right. I feels more like PnP DnD than any Computer DnD ever made. I have played it through over a dozen times and still enjoy it as it brings back good memories of my early days playing DnD. No game does it better,

Having said that; Baldurs gate is a better CRPG, a very, very good game. But it lacks the feel of actual DnD for me (Semi real time combat rot blew it for me). I

If you are looking to play DnD on the computer- TOEE for sure. For a great engaging (perhaps best) CRPG you cannot lose with Baldur's gate. Either way you win!

ToEE is far and away the best implementation of the D&D 3.5 ruleset.

I think the UI is really slick. I can't think of a better way to cram that level of options into the game. I do sort of wish familiars were just a little less lame. (They show up as an inventory item!)

Some people might be turned off by the Tangerine Dream-y electronic score, although I personally really dig it for some reason.

Really. the suckiest thing about ToEE was the amount of bugs it shipped with. If you're getting it from GOG, this will be less of a problem. Some glitches might pop up though. The Aurora engine games are decidedly better polished products.

One thing that really bugged me about Baldur's Gate was its heavy-handed approach towards pushing you to be the good guy. Sure, you could play an evil character... if you didn't mind paying up the wazoo at shops and getting attacked by the Flaming Fist all the time. (Which was a real shame, given some of the memorable evil NPCs who could join your party!) Troika actually put a fair amount of thought into providing enough plot options for characters of any alignment. (You can TEAM UP with the bad guys, or usurp their position!) If you want to entertain that anti-social itch, ToEE offers something Bioware never really handled well.

(If you dig this sort of game, It is, of course, hard not to justify buying ALL of these games at the prices GOG offers them for. We're talking about a seriously lengthy amount of entertainment for not much money.)

BG2 becomes much more tactically interesting. At higher levels you have more spells, more items and more classes to choose from. Not to mention there are plenty of different monsters to fight all with their own weaknesses and strengths. With certain epic mods (I've always liked The Darkest Day but I realize it can be a little unpolished), you have even more spells and items to choose from. Also, common to BG and BG2, you have 6 party members, each with their own strengths, and customizable with gear. The pause any time feature allows you to get a good blend of both thought out strategy and real time excitement and decisionmaking.

The BG games are bar none the most fun rpgs I've ever played, and not just for the good story.

PS:T is hands down the best story.

TOEE? I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole (I own the game but it has no replay value whatsoever). There aren't really enough fights to even make the tactics that compelling. It seems like they spent all their time making a system to implement 3.5 rules, which are cool, but they didn't spend any time making the content for that system. Its more like a mod construction tool than a crpg.

I'm shocked and somewhat disappointed to find that nobody has even mentioned Darksun: Shattered Lands. it's a good one. It might not look like much on the outside but it's one of the best out there. It has the fighting system of ToEE and the character generation of Icewind Dale. The scenery of D:SL is incredibly atmospheric for it's time and the story is extremely versatile. I highly recommend this game to anyone who like ToEE.