I did not grow up with System Shock and have no nostalgia to it what so ever and I'm not using any mods.

However, I found this game to be very impressive, especially in atmosphere.

I wasn't expecting to be liking the game as much as I do.

One thing I want to talk about is how scary it is. The game is old and does show it's age there's no question about hat. I was thinking that this game might have been scary in the day but with games like amnesia, I don't think it will be that scary. Sure enough it wasn't as a scary as amnesia but it was a lot scary then I thought it was going to be and I figured out why and it's the reason I refuse to use mods.

The hybrids dated poly look adds to them being scary. I remember watching an episode of the Jim Quisition (check him out on the escapist he's awesome) where he walked about how to truly scar someone the secret is to make it look slightly shit so that it's harder to identify.

I thought it was an interesting view point but I didn't understand just how true that really is. I've seen the new models that come with the rebirth mod and while I applaud their efforts and think it's great that such things are available for the community. However, inn my opinion the original models are far scary because your brain has to struggle to understand what it's looking at.

I just feel with all the talk about older games from the days of yore and and this one especially how they should be re-released with better graphics and stuff that maybe we should think about what it is we are really asking for.

I totally agree with you. I find new survival/horror themed games (like RE, Bioshock or Amnesia: machine for pigs for example) by far less scary than System Shock, just limited to their main attribute (TPS, FPS, point'n'click).

It's the same way new horror movies (true atmosphere movies, not just jump scares shits) doesn't scare me anymore: with more detailled graphics or better FX, we are loosing the imaginational factor that make things looks scary because we associate it with scary feelings and reminders to understand their true nature.

It's great to still have this kind of games available for people who wanna play real scary games mixed with FPS/RPG gameplay elements. It's a richest gaming experience than most new games can provide.

Also I think of all the science fiction foes, that I have seen from the Borg, the thing, aliens from, well aliens. The many are the most fascinating and most frighting and disturbing I have ever seen.

I agree with you on all points about the graphics contributing to the threatening atmosphere. There is however a more important distinction between SS2 and later games.

Modern games are often built around checkpoints whereas older games had manual saves. You would think this isn't a very big difference, but it is. Checkpoints take all the tension out of the game by actually telling the player "All that hard stuff you had to go through? Just forget it, it is past you now. We just saved the game for you because we know this area is safe and so you should also feel safe".

Quicksaving can also take the challange and tension out of a game, but it is not the same. You don't necessarily know when it is safe to save the game. You can make a mistake and "save yourself" into a corner where you have little health and ammo while the AI has already triggered on that big bad monster. Also, saving the game does not magically replenish health and give you free ammunition like many games do today (when reloading a checkpoint). A manually saved game is a continuous experience. Everything that lead up from the start of the game to the current quick save is a single narrative. Checkpoints are abstract. If you die you don't revert to an exact point in your progress through the game, your game starts over from a new starting position. There IS a difference in how this feels to the player. An extreme example is Hitman: Absolution in which loading a checkpoint respawns killed enemies and resets AI states all around. It makes absolutely no sense how you can shoot your way into a secure building, die, load a checkpoint inside the building and find that no one remembers what happened before you died and you're just kind of there. The history of your infiltration does no longer exist. No tension. No sense of consequence or responsibility for your actions in the game.

SS2 does not hold your hand. You are alone in this game. There are no on-screen tutorials explaining how to get past particular sequences or telling you where to go. There is no automagic compass that knows where your abstract goal lies. You have to live with the fact that you can make mistakes that actually matter. You can not suicide rush through this game and rely on checkpoints to revert those mistakes. It is also not possible to finish SS2 with just any character build, which means the character building elements ACTUALLY matter.

On a side note, movies often aren't scary because they follow thoroughly idiotic and unexciting formulas. A bunch of 20-something douchbags and bimbos that no one can relate to or sympathise with? It is obvious they are all going to die so instead of fearing the monsters we should rather be rooting for them. There is no tension in watching a film where you don't expect or even want anyone to survive.

Formula, that is the problem. I didn't find amnesia scary at all. Why? It was the formula. Walk in dark room, flip switch, monster spawned outside. Yawn. The maps, the monsters, the scripted events, they are predictable. Not to mention monsters aren't scary. Scary things lose their effect as soon as you see them. You have to let your imagination do the work. The part the game has to do is provide the atmosphere. System Shock 2, along with Silent Hill 1,2,3, and Pathologic all did a wonderful job. It's all about atmosphere. Your mind does the rest.

With SS2 the scariest thing was slowly learning what happened on the ship. It filled you with such a sense of dread and desperation. I could feel it in the pit of my stomach as I listened to those audio logs, piecing everything together little by little.

And what are your options? Your way out is to listen to this insane A.I. that thinks she's a goddess, calling you an insect and making it clear you're as dispensable to her as everyone else that died on the ship. And the only other way is the Many. Listening to the hybrids losing their fucking minds, not having any control over their bodies while the person they used to be is engulfed in a collective consciousness, taking away their individuality. Most creepy part: in the end, they LOVE it. And you're right in the middle between "the cold machine mother" and the "splendor of warm flesh".

And people say monsters are scary.

What a fantastic way to tell a horror story.

Funny. While I agree with most everything you guys are saying, I still don't find SS2 to be that scary. I'm not saying hybrids aren't a pretty good monster, but by the time I got to the medical area they were old hat. Pumping out more of them didn't make them scarier after that. The robots aren't scary at all. The monkeys are more intriguing than the hybrids, but I found them sort of funny, and thus not scary. The annelid monsters are gross, but also not that scary IMO. Nurses are probably the most scary, I would say.

Still, the game does have a good atmosphere, and it creates tension by limiting ammo and whatnot. I just think the "scary" aspect is exaggerated. The scariest parts of Thief are scarier than SS2, IMO.

"Unnerving" is probably better than "scary" to describe most of the game. Sure, there are scary moments, but overall the game relies on the horror aspect of things being wrong.

Unnerving is closer to my impression, although I was more intrigued by the wonder of looking out windows at the starfield.

The science fiction aspect worked better for me in all ways than the horror aspect did. I think it's because science fiction has an inherent rationality; there is nothing supernatural happening, and a logical solution can be found if enough knowledge can be applied in the correct way. Therefore, no reason exists to be afraid of things simply because they are ugly, different, or unknown.

I honestly think the situation they place you in throughout that entire game is very very scary. Stuck between SHODAN and the Many with very little control over what you're doing, and constantly discovering new things about each side, realizing you're probably not choosing the *lesser* of two evils.

Without spoiling too much, I think finding logs and traces from the other crew members on different parts of the ship is one of the scariest things about the game. It doesn't tell the story in chronological order, letting you piece it together yourself.

If you meant "scary" as in monsters chasing you down hallways, then you won't find SS2 scary. You're more of a Dead Space person. SS2 is all about atmosphere and slow, creeping horror.

See, I simply disagree with that. To me it's a science fiction game (with a cool atmosphere - I grant you that) with grotesque creatures and tension induced by a lack of resources, and it startles you sometimes because things jump out at you from the dark. I didn't find the overall story horrific, however.

I didn't find it any more horrific than the story from, say, Marathon - another old shooter about a spaceship and an insane AI.

I would say the point of having great atmosphere is to immerse you in the game world, and putting yourself in that situation is absolutely shit-my-pants scary. But since you thought the atmosphere was good, I guess you were immersed and this game just isn't your type of scary. To each his own.

The horror elements of SS2 remind me a lot of the horror in the Silent Hill series, except you are much more capable of defending yourself which IMO is the only reason SS2 is not as scary as Silent Hill 1 or 2.

Jump scares, body horror, gore, monsters, zombies, startle scares etc etc have absolutely no effect on me. But I delightfully wet my trousers when I'm put in an eerie atmosphere.

For example, the hybrids aren't scary, but their message is absolutely terrifying. (Minor spoiler) the audio logs of those crew members as they are slowly turned into the many.... that shit sends shivers down my spine. Especially listening to it in a small room trying to hide from them.

Yes but it didn't have the same effect on you as it did on me. That unnerving feeling from beginning to end does work on my brain. It gets me all jumpy and paranoid, it makes me reimagine what went on in those rooms, it pricks up the hairs on my neck. I love and fear every second I spend on that ship. Like I said before, if you have ever played Silent Hill, that is the feeling I get from SS2 (less intense, obviously).

If you haven't played STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl, you should give it a try. I just got it a few days ago (here on GoG), and it's got some good scary parts.

I have played it. Felt like a huge "meh". I do admit it's got some parts that can send shivers down your spine, but I had to really force myself to finish the game. I think how bored I was also probably reduced the scariness of the game. I didn't find it all too immersive and therefore not all that scary.