Posted September 23, 2015
Rixasha
Mangeon Duster
Rixasha Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2012
From Finland
Cat_Lady
The Dreaming
Cat_Lady Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2011
From Poland
Posted September 23, 2015
Rixasha: Does EE also emulate the CPU like DOSBox does, or does it run the code natively? Because those translation steps are probably quite light in comparison.
EE doesn't emulate CPU, it only translates native DOS calls to win ones (so it is like wine is for windows->linux, but just for dos->windows... DINE? xD ) And yes, it is much lighter than emulating whole machine, like DOSBox does (and I love DOSBox for other uses, mind you).
BUT - the most interesting part is last post from linux discussion on systemshock.org - using DOSEmu for playing SS in Linux. This one also doesn't emulate whole machine and, reportedly, performance beats BOTH EE and DOSBox one. Might be worth trying.
/Estel
Marad
New User
Marad Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Poland
Posted September 23, 2015
Estel_: BUT - the most interesting part is last post from linux discussion on systemshock.org - using DOSEmu for playing SS in Linux. This one also doesn't emulate whole machine and, reportedly, performance beats BOTH EE and DOSBox one. Might be worth trying.
I can confirm that. It's a bit tricky to setup DOSEmu, but it was worth it. For me, performance of 1024x768 has been absolutely abysmal in DOSBox. EE with Wine is just barely playable, while DOSEmu makes it really comfortable. I'm using an old Lenovo X60 laptop, so it does make a difference for me. I imagine that on a decent machine EE is just good enough.
guangling
New User
guangling Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jan 2011
From Hong Kong
Posted September 23, 2015
Posting this in case it might help some people out there. The solution by Adamhm was not working for me, then I noticed that I had both Timidity++ and Fluidsynth installed on my system. Removing all Timidity files resulted in Adamhm's solution also working for me :)
Arykles
Stupor mundi
Arykles Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2010
From Finland
Firebrand9
The Red Blaze
Firebrand9 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2012
From United States
Rixasha
Mangeon Duster
Rixasha Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2012
From Finland
Posted September 23, 2015
Firebrand9: My bet is the performance would be better in DOSBox, just from understanding the underlying programming involved in all these conversions.
Oh, well I'll just bet the other way then. Wine Is Not an Emulator, whereas DOSBox is. Certainly there is a performance penalty for using Wine instead of running on Windows, but for the most part that's pretty light. Implementing the whole CPU as well as pretty much the rest of the computer in software - like DOSBox does - is so heavy that anything that runs the code natively on the host CPU should be able to beat it hands down unless it runs into some fairly fundamental bottleneck.
You just got me wondering if EE also did some emulation and why would it do that, but since it doesn't I'll just retreat back to my corner. I'm personally fine running it either way but if my spec was very limited, DOSemu might be an alternative worth trying out.
throgh
Linux Adventurer
throgh Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2011
From Germany
Posted September 23, 2015
Just for the records: Is there a possibility to execute the fluidsynth-command in the background while starting for example PlayOnLinux via shellscript? Would be nice to make a simple shortcut for this within my applications. :)
Gydion
Aexander
Gydion Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2011
From United States
Posted September 24, 2015
throgh: Just for the records: Is there a possibility to execute the fluidsynth-command in the background while starting for example PlayOnLinux via shellscript? Would be nice to make a simple shortcut for this within my applications. :)
Sure? $ fluidsynth -a alsa -si /path/to//soundfont.sf2 &
With a script you would want to gracefully kill it after exiting the game.Post edited September 24, 2015 by Gydion
Klumpen0815
+91
Klumpen0815 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2012
From Germany
Posted September 24, 2015
adamhm: As noted by others in the release thread, I've found that System Shock Enhanced Edition appears to run perfectly in Wine except that there's no music. I've got the music working on my system (running Linux Mint) by doing the following:
First, install the packages "fluidsynth" and "fluid-soundfont-gm" (you can ignore the second one if you want to use an alternative soundfont). Then, before you start the game, start fluidsynth with this command:
fluidsynth --audio-driver=alsa /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2
(if you're using a different soundfont then substitute /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 with the soundfont you want to use).
Leave it to run in the background as you play SSE and exit when you're done playing.
Hey, thanks for the tip, unfortunately it didn't work for me, here is the result (I had to replace "alsa" with "pulseaudio") First, install the packages "fluidsynth" and "fluid-soundfont-gm" (you can ignore the second one if you want to use an alternative soundfont). Then, before you start the game, start fluidsynth with this command:
fluidsynth --audio-driver=alsa /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2
(if you're using a different soundfont then substitute /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 with the soundfont you want to use).
Leave it to run in the background as you play SSE and exit when you're done playing.
fluidsynth --audio-driver=pulseaudio /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2
FluidSynth version 1.1.6
Copyright (C) 2000-2012 Peter Hanappe and others.
Distributed under the LGPL license.
SoundFont(R) is a registered trademark of E-mu Systems, Inc.
fluidsynth: warning: Failed to pin the sample data to RAM; swapping is possible.
fluidsynth: Using PulseAudio driver
Type 'help' for help topics
fluidsynth --audio-driver=alsa /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2
FluidSynth version 1.1.6
Copyright (C) 2000-2012 Peter Hanappe and others.
Distributed under the LGPL license.
SoundFont(R) is a registered trademark of E-mu Systems, Inc.
fluidsynth: warning: Failed to pin the sample data to RAM; swapping is possible.
fluidsynth: warning: Requested a period size of 64, got 940 instead
fluidsynth: warning: Requested 16 periods, got 8 instead
Type 'help' for help topics.
Post edited September 24, 2015 by Klumpen0815
throgh
Linux Adventurer
throgh Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2011
From Germany
Posted September 24, 2015
throgh: Just for the records: Is there a possibility to execute the fluidsynth-command in the background while starting for example PlayOnLinux via shellscript? Would be nice to make a simple shortcut for this within my applications. :)
Gydion: Sure? $ fluidsynth -a alsa -si /path/to//soundfont.sf2 &
fluidsynth --audio-driver=alsa -is /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 &
csd79
New User
csd79 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted September 25, 2015
For what it's worth, here's how I made it work under OS X 10.10.5 (without any music enhancement or other modification):
Wineskin, WS9Wine1.7.51 engine
Install the Enhanced Edition - I got error messages at the end of installation, but that's fine
Select sshock.exe as executable (in Screen Options)
Use Mac driver instead of X11
Enjoy the game!
It's running perfectly on my MacBook Pro 2014, much more fluid than it was in DOSBox in 640x480.
It's a shame Night Dive or GOG didn't make it clear how much of the enhancements are created by the fan community though. :( Same with SS2.
Wineskin, WS9Wine1.7.51 engine
Install the Enhanced Edition - I got error messages at the end of installation, but that's fine
Select sshock.exe as executable (in Screen Options)
Use Mac driver instead of X11
Enjoy the game!
It's running perfectly on my MacBook Pro 2014, much more fluid than it was in DOSBox in 640x480.
It's a shame Night Dive or GOG didn't make it clear how much of the enhancements are created by the fan community though. :( Same with SS2.
Post edited September 25, 2015 by csd79
Firebrand9
The Red Blaze
Firebrand9 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2012
From United States
Posted September 25, 2015
Rixasha: Wine Is Not an Emulator, whereas DOSBox is. Certainly there is a performance penalty for using Wine instead of running on Windows, but for the most part that's pretty light. Implementing the whole CPU as well as pretty much the rest of the computer in software - like DOSBox does - is so heavy that anything that runs the code natively on the host CPU should be able to beat it hands down unless it runs into some fairly fundamental bottleneck.
You just got me wondering if EE also did some emulation and why would it do that, but since it doesn't I'll just retreat back to my corner. I'm personally fine running it either way but if my spec was very limited, DOSemu might be an alternative worth trying out.
Any translation layer is a form of emulation, however incomplete. Win GDI is NOT a trivial GUI layer to convert (try programming it an you'll see), and the fact that isn't not emulating an ENTIRE CPU, doesn't alter this fact. But this is all semantics and not essential to the the thrust of my point. You just got me wondering if EE also did some emulation and why would it do that, but since it doesn't I'll just retreat back to my corner. I'm personally fine running it either way but if my spec was very limited, DOSemu might be an alternative worth trying out.
EE does act as a further translation layer to the DOS functions and converts them to the Windows equivalent.
My main point was to inform people of what exactly is going on so they could choose optimal solutions for running the game. Two translation steps is one too many if you ask me and I would never choose that as a means of playing this fine game. I think many people are getting caught up in the whole idea of the EE being the "coup de grace" to all other versions, and I'm saying this is simply not true.
All things considered, it's a slight improvement over the DOSBox version in that a marginally higher res can had without performance (or mouse wonkiness) issues, but ONLY under Windows, where no further tradeoffs are made. The CE with Mouselook patch added is at least 95% of the EE. Mind you, the EE is just an evolution/combination of both Malba Tahan's Mouselook patch (revolutionary) and Shlink project (with some further development to add music). That's pretty much it.
Anything where an additional translation layer (as I explained in prior posts) is going to take an additional performance hit, which I find unacceptable. If I attach a stick to the gas pedal in my car, it's not as effective as me just stepping on the pedal. Further, if I need some guy in the back seat to tell me when to push said stick, it's going to be even LESS efficient. But it's your experience. Choose whatever you want, whatever works for you, but do so with knowledge of what's occurring and OPTIONS.
Post edited September 25, 2015 by Firebrand9
Rixasha
Mangeon Duster
Rixasha Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2012
From Finland
Posted September 25, 2015
I was trying to be funny with that line. Wine actually stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. Here is a relevant Debunking Wine Myths page on the Wine wiki.
I have played games on Wine since Baldur's Gate was new, and you're severely overestimating the weight of these translation steps. Sometimes there are bottlenecks that really hurt performance if the game happens to be designed in some specific way, but when everything works right they're pretty light. And when the game is old and the computer is new, thinking about them is pointless.
You're also grossly underestimating the weight of emulation - DOSBox is really, really heavy and not a viable option for old computers. Just check the table on the Performance page on its wiki. One striking example is that you need a 3.0 GHz Pentium 4 to emulate a 166 MHz Pentium. And that's with the dynamic core, the normal core may be ten times slower.
Wine or not, DOSBox simply can't compete with the EE performance-wise.
I have played games on Wine since Baldur's Gate was new, and you're severely overestimating the weight of these translation steps. Sometimes there are bottlenecks that really hurt performance if the game happens to be designed in some specific way, but when everything works right they're pretty light. And when the game is old and the computer is new, thinking about them is pointless.
You're also grossly underestimating the weight of emulation - DOSBox is really, really heavy and not a viable option for old computers. Just check the table on the Performance page on its wiki. One striking example is that you need a 3.0 GHz Pentium 4 to emulate a 166 MHz Pentium. And that's with the dynamic core, the normal core may be ten times slower.
Wine or not, DOSBox simply can't compete with the EE performance-wise.
Post edited September 25, 2015 by Rixasha
throgh
Linux Adventurer
throgh Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2011
From Germany
Posted September 25, 2015
That is also my current experience: I've installed the game using Wine 1.6 ans was surprised how good it worked out of the box without any further adjustments needed. After fixing the tweak for the music mentioned within this thread there is no problem running the game through Wine while Dosbox had its problems!