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System Shock seriesSystem Shock 2 criticism(112 posts)(112 posts)
(112 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 18, 2013
Stop treating the game like run and gun fps, of course you're going to die and frustrate a lot. Think about your action, then take your stats into account. Your character always going to be bit weak at the beginning of the game.

The game is not perfect and there's some valid criticism pitching around here, but not for the reasons that you listed above. Sorry dave, it looks like you're on wrong genre. Maybe try changing your approach a little bit? You don't have to rush anything in this game, take it slowly. I mean in nice way, i know you're just being honest here like you always do on this forum.

Also, i suggest for some people to stop ridicule others who don't share the same mentality / preference as yours, no matter how silly it sound to you. On GOG there are hundreds of people with different background and age. Some of them are hardcore gamer, some of them aren't and non tech savvy, even some of them can be really old (50 and above). You're on general gaming community, of course it always going to have various opinions. I've seen some people went on some other place and ridicule several poster here, honestly it's not a nice thing to do.
Post edited February 18, 2013 by wormholewizards
Posted February 18, 2013
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Dave3d: ...
You know, most of your issues come from a lack of patience / not reading tutorials properly. Don't want to miss audiolog? Just read the bloody thing instead of listening to it, I can guarantee you that you'll be finished reading looong before said person stops talking. Inventory managemet? Well... Of course you can't carry stuff that you can't carry anymore, I mean that's a standard in any game with an inventory and it's fairly logical. All in all, I'd say the game quite simply isn't for you as opposed to being bad.
Posted February 18, 2013
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Dave3d: I was SO excited for this game, when gog announced it (via RPS).
Never played before.

I must say, I dont really like the game.
WAY too many BS stuff going on.
All my rants, raves, and lots of questions here (yes, Dave3d there also):
http://forums.seriouszone.com/showthread.php?t=63555

rantrantrant
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voodoo47: and this, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly why games are so worthless today.
And this is exactly why Bioshock was so disappointingly inferior System Shock franchise successor.
Posted February 18, 2013
As for the RPG debate - i understand an RPG game should have two basic features:
- character development
- dialogue system (communication with NPCs)

That's why I consider games like DXHR, Mass Effect or Fallout3/New Vegas to be RPG, however streamlined.

But games like STALKER or SS2 are not RPGs, in my view, coz the first doesn't have any character development, and the second any dialogues.

But that's just me.
Posted February 18, 2013
Yeah I have to agree that the game has its flaws.

The major two beeing the rushed out ending (which Irrational Games talked about on their website btw) and the imbalanced RPG system.

I don´t think it´s bad that there IS an RPG system, but it definitly needs some tweaks. I played through the game multiple times using different skill and weapon trees and at some point I realized you would just have to force yourself to not choose the more effevtive stuff over the things you haven´t used yet.

Which basically discourages roleplay. It´s just frustrating to invest all your points to get a weapon that is weaker than your standard straightforward rifle... Yet there is a lot of stuff to try out and some of it makes for some very interesting gameplay changes.

I think what we have here is not an RPG but rather an offer to try and play the game in various ways, which for me added to the whole experience. Just don´t have your mind set on playing a "real" hardcore RPG and you should be fine since most of the issues do not surface until your second or third playthrough anyways.
Posted February 18, 2013
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Shodan101: Yeah I have to agree that the game has its flaws.

...

I think what we have here is not an RPG but rather an offer to try and play the game in various ways, which for me added to the whole experience. Just don´t have your mind set on playing a "real" hardcore RPG and you should be fine since most of the issues do not surface until your second or third playthrough anyways.
Of course it has flaws, what game doesn't. It is of little consequence when this game's qualities far outshine its shortcomings. There is a chance some newcomers might not be able to appreciate it, what with their tastes being skewed by the easiness of most modern games, and that is their loss. System Shock 2 is a coveted classic for a reason-- it is an oldschool, uncompromisingly hardcore shooter with killer production values and atmosphere. And yes, lots of customization and RPG elements, no matter how stingy and nitpicky you want to get about it. Seriously, who cares about labels any way. Just enjoy the game. Don't let the troll OP get you down.
Post edited February 18, 2013 by Westenra
Posted February 18, 2013
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Westenra: Don't let the troll OP get you down.
I was trolling by trying to present my reasoning as well as I could and even adding a direct link to a counter-argument right under that? Wow, pretty much everyone who has voiced an opinion ever is a troll then.
Posted February 18, 2013
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Westenra: Don't let the troll OP get you down.
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Fenixp: I was trolling by trying to present my reasoning as well as I could and even adding a direct link to a counter-argument right under that? Wow, pretty much everyone who has voiced an opinion ever is a troll then.
What reasoning? All you've done is raise hell over non-issues. Who cares about trying to define what genre System Shock 2 belongs in? If people play it and enjoy it then who cares about expectations. SS2 is an FPS with RPG elements. In no way is it just a regular FPS where you run around and shoot stuff and push buttons. You hulk out your character in all directions and face the consequences of running around and shooting and pushing buttons. Of course the game will get easier as you gain skill. That's the point. This is pretty much where your reasoning turns into *highly subjective* opinion of minor things you don't like about the game, stemming apparently from how you've heard the game described(?) or how it was described to you and what you actually encountered? What do other people's opinions have to do with how you experienced the game? What is your methodology beyond "I don't to talk about it" or "read the rest of the topic"? I think you're cynical and feeding on the attention.
Post edited February 18, 2013 by Westenra
Posted February 18, 2013
I'm one of the people here who never really played through the game until now. When I was younger, it didn't really fit what I enjoyed and so I never finished it.

About 6 months ago I shelled out $140 for a boxed copy in good shape and figured I'd try at it again. The game was fun, but I found it tedious and I found the inventory management annoying. While I don't expect a game like SS2 to be run and gun (I played the first one some back in the day), I found that I spent too much time trying to decide what I wanted to keep and through away, in addition to playing inventory tetris regularly to keep stuff I wanted. In addition, I found it was unhealthy for me to play because it was actually stressing me out (my bride even noticed) and gave me nightmares. I suppose the last two give you a perspective into how immersive the game can be, but for me that wasn't a good thing. I didn't get off the engineering deck.

At any rate, I shelved it for a while and figured I'd come back to it again someday, figuring that the reason it had such a physical and mental impact on me was my life circumstances at the time (I was rather tired and stressed out). When GOG released it, I figured I'd go at it again. This time around things went a lot better. For some reason, I haven't had the inventory problems, it hasn't freaked me out as much, and I've actually been able to enjoy the game without being stressed out :P I find that certain types of games I enjoy depending on what else I have going on, so my first experience with SS2 probably fits into that category.

One thing I find a bit annoying is the respawns. I'm on the fence as to whether or not it fits into the environment, part of me thinks it does for story reasons, but another part of me wishes I could go explore old decks again without having to encounter enemies. I think the only other desire I'd have is that stealth would play a bigger role, if you choose it.

Those are my experiences. I'm really enjoying it this time around, but it definitely has it's quirks and I probably wouldn't have gone back to it for a while if GOG hadn't released it. Still glad I have a box copy, though :)
Post edited February 18, 2013 by Shinook
Posted February 18, 2013
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Westenra: ...
Well of course I say 'read the rest of the topic', I have 1) said that it's my opinion, and I've tried to make it clear in the OP as well by stating that everyone's definition of an RPG differs (and... Of course it's my opinion for crying out loud, whose else would it be? Criticism is always highly subjective), 2)
I also said that definition of RPG varies by person, what I have said in the initial post is by no means ultimate truth - I guess my point was that a lot of people are trying to pass SS2 as a full-blown RPG, as in Morrowind or Fallout, which it is not - I think we can agree on that. I have always found it misleading.
I have made my point fairly clearly troughout the discussion. SS2 is not an RPG by my definition of the genre. I'm not willing to discuss it because it's utterly and completely pointless discussion that I've had many times. I have provided another opinion, of a person who does think that SS2 indeed is an RPG, to make the OP less biased towards my personal feelings. Just because someone doesn't think what you do doesn't mean he's trolling you know.
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Shinook: ...
These are two pretty valid concerns, altho I do know of people who like both respawning enemies and inventory tetris (however mindboggling that might seem to me.)
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faelnor: I think the OP is rather badly worded.
re-word it or tell me your concerns then, I'll get right on it.
Post edited February 18, 2013 by Fenixp
Posted February 18, 2013
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Shodan101: I don´t think it´s bad that there IS an RPG system, but it definitly needs some tweaks. I played through the game multiple times using different skill and weapon trees and at some point I realized you would just have to force yourself to not choose the more effevtive stuff over the things you haven´t used yet.

Which basically discourages roleplay.
You have that backwards. When you go through a game making the best choices for you, that's not roleplaying-- it's just playing. True roleplaying is defined by making decisions that you wouldn't normally make.
Posted February 18, 2013
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Shinook: I'm one of the people here who never really played through the game until now. When I was younger, it didn't really fit what I enjoyed and so I never finished it.

About 6 months ago I shelled out $140 for a boxed copy in good shape and figured I'd try at it again. The game was fun, but I found it tedious and I found the inventory management annoying. While I don't expect a game like SS2 to be run and gun (I played the first one some back in the day), I found that I spent too much time trying to decide what I wanted to keep and through away, in addition to playing inventory tetris regularly to keep stuff I wanted. In addition, I found it was unhealthy for me to play because it was actually stressing me out (my bride even noticed) and gave me nightmares. I suppose the last two give you a perspective into how immersive the game can be, but for me that wasn't a good thing. I didn't get off the engineering deck.

At any rate, I shelved it for a while and figured I'd come back to it again someday, figuring that the reason it had such a physical and mental impact on me was my life circumstances at the time (I was rather tired and stressed out). When GOG released it, I figured I'd go at it again. This time around things went a lot better. For some reason, I haven't had the inventory problems, it hasn't freaked me out as much, and I've actually been able to enjoy the game without being stressed out :P I find that certain types of games I enjoy depending on what else I have going on, so my first experience with SS2 probably fits into that category.

One thing I find a bit annoying is the respawns. I'm on the fence as to whether or not it fits into the environment, part of me thinks it does for story reasons, but another part of me wishes I could go explore old decks again without having to encounter enemies. I think the only other desire I'd have is that stealth would play a bigger role, if you choose it.

Those are my experiences. I'm really enjoying it this time around, but it definitely has it's quirks and I probably wouldn't have gone back to it for a while if GOG hadn't released it. Still glad I have a box copy, though :)
You can turn off the respawns and weapon degradation, if you want.
Posted February 18, 2013
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ZylonBane: You have that backwards. When you go through a game making the best choices for you, that's not roleplaying-- it's just playing. True roleplaying is defined by making decisions that you wouldn't normally make.
I do believe that's the entire issue of lack of balance this game comes with - there is an optimal way of playing it, an optimal build if you will. And while that's not something I'd do in, say, Morrowind, which is also poorly balanced, a survival horror encourages you to play the optimal way, and punishes you if you don't. Which, sadly, is the case of SS2, where just going for maintenance, repair and standard guns will make you a killer character.
Posted February 18, 2013
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Shinook: I'm one of the people here who never really played through the game until now. When I was younger, it didn't really fit what I enjoyed and so I never finished it.

About 6 months ago I shelled out $140 for a boxed copy in good shape and figured I'd try at it again. The game was fun, but I found it tedious and I found the inventory management annoying. While I don't expect a game like SS2 to be run and gun (I played the first one some back in the day), I found that I spent too much time trying to decide what I wanted to keep and through away, in addition to playing inventory tetris regularly to keep stuff I wanted. In addition, I found it was unhealthy for me to play because it was actually stressing me out (my bride even noticed) and gave me nightmares. I suppose the last two give you a perspective into how immersive the game can be, but for me that wasn't a good thing. I didn't get off the engineering deck.

At any rate, I shelved it for a while and figured I'd come back to it again someday, figuring that the reason it had such a physical and mental impact on me was my life circumstances at the time (I was rather tired and stressed out). When GOG released it, I figured I'd go at it again. This time around things went a lot better. For some reason, I haven't had the inventory problems, it hasn't freaked me out as much, and I've actually been able to enjoy the game without being stressed out :P I find that certain types of games I enjoy depending on what else I have going on, so my first experience with SS2 probably fits into that category.

One thing I find a bit annoying is the respawns. I'm on the fence as to whether or not it fits into the environment, part of me thinks it does for story reasons, but another part of me wishes I could go explore old decks again without having to encounter enemies. I think the only other desire I'd have is that stealth would play a bigger role, if you choose it.

Those are my experiences. I'm really enjoying it this time around, but it definitely has it's quirks and I probably wouldn't have gone back to it for a while if GOG hadn't released it. Still glad I have a box copy, though :)
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cbarbagallo: You can turn off the respawns and weapon degradation, if you want.
How? I wasn't aware of that.

I actually don't mind weapon degradation.
Posted February 18, 2013
I always thought it was funny how many people screamed and moaned about weapon degradation in SS2, but when Fallout 3 rolled around everyone was fine with it.

Yeah, weapons degrade in SS2. The game also provides you about a half-dozen ways to deal with it. Some people just have a hard time accepting that they're not playing Doom.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
System Shock seriesSystem Shock 2 criticism(112 posts)(112 posts)
(112 posts)