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amccour: How does taking out the RPG elements make it dumbed down, though? I don't think they really worked very well in SS2, and I thought SS1 was a better game for their absence.
It doesn't, Bioshock is an excellent game, with fantastic commentary on the state of today's gaming. Its only real downfall is that resources are far too easy to come by and thus the survival element gets thrown out of the window.

I agree with SS2 and its RPG bits, never found them all that enjoyable myself. I prefer SS1 for its level design and openness, but SS2 trying to be an RPG doesn't really help it either :D
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amccour: How does taking out the RPG elements make it dumbed down, though? I don't think they really worked very well in SS2, and I thought SS1 was a better game for their absence.
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Fenixp: It doesn't, Bioshock is an excellent game, with fantastic commentary on the state of today's gaming. Its only real downfall is that resources are far too easy to come by and thus the survival element gets thrown out of the window.

I agree with SS2 and its RPG bits, never found them all that enjoyable myself. I prefer SS1 for its level design and openness, but SS2 trying to be an RPG doesn't really help it either :D
I didn't find Bioshock all that excellent, it was a solid FPS but it wasn't scary, it wasn't survival, I didn't like the level design one bit, the plot was lifted straight from SS2 and the whole lore/mythos thing was downright weird (maybe an acquired taste that I still haven't acquired). Sure it has great production value, I guess you can even call it artistic and it played well but not much more. And Bioshock 2 was just a chore. Ken Levine is a dev guru for a lot of people but in my book he is not a particularly good game designer.

As for the RPG bits - agreed, for me SS1 was a better game too, in fact I consider it the second best game ever made, after Planescape: Torment. I still remember when it came out in mid 90s, it was...revelation. That's why I feel almost offended when ppl praise Bioshock as the spiritual successor of SS - not even close.
Post edited March 04, 2013 by Aalda11
I DEFINITELY want to see this happen.

I think it would be interesting for Shodan to experience what its like to feel things as a human-like half flesh half cybernetic life form (perhaps even love?) and break into two entities, each fighting the other believing them self to be the true Shodan. The other form would be of course a more powerful version of her original form, software in a computer. A true battle between flesh and machine, which is superior? You could play a protagonist who works with the human form of Shodan who goes into hiding from the more powerful "machine" version of Shodan (who of course returns to earth and wants to wipe out the human species), but of course shows up to help you in the final battle. And it would be nice to have a more true RPG experience where decisions you make actually change the direction of the story and how events unfold.
Post edited April 11, 2013 by General_Hoohah
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General_Hoohah: ...
I'd actually like to see a game that's lighter on the RPG aspects and heavier on freeroaming aspects, like the first game is. As for SHODAN, no matter what they'd do with her, I think she should win this time - otherwise she'd just become one of those baddies that always try something and then gets horribly defeated, which doesn't exactly help them to be threatening.
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General_Hoohah: ...
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Fenixp: As for SHODAN, no matter what they'd do with her, I think she should win this time - otherwise she'd just become one of those baddies that always try something and then gets horribly defeated, which doesn't exactly help them to be threatening.
Kinda like this guy

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121123224531/looneytunes/images/a/ae/The_Brain.gif
Post edited April 12, 2013 by cbarbagallo
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Fenixp: As for SHODAN, no matter what they'd do with her, I think she should win this time - otherwise she'd just become one of those baddies that always try something and then gets horribly defeated, which doesn't exactly help them to be threatening.
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cbarbagallo: Kinda like this guy

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121123224531/looneytunes/images/a/ae/The_Brain.gif
I like that idea. Which would actually fit well with the direction I was going with my thoughts earlier. I was thinking that after becoming a cybernetic hybrid and experiencing something close to what we call emotions (love, hate, remorse, sadness, regret, etc) and gaining an understanding of morality as a result, even pain and pleasure and other human experiences, her programming would be at war with it self. She would have the choice of purging it self of the parts of her programming and subroutines that are incompatible with her new cybernetic body and its experiences, or tear her self apart from the inside.

This would result in two Shodans. A more ruthless form of Shodan who now has a more intimate understanding of the human condition and its weaknesses, and the more human-like Shodan who has decided to embrace what she previously thought were weaknesses and continue living in her new form.

The original Shodan which was purged, would shed previous weaknesses and gain a better understanding of how to take advantage of and manipulate what she views as weaknesses, like love, hate and other emotions, pain, empathy, morality, etc. She would become a much more serious threat and maybe win in the next game.

This idea came to me after seeing the clip of her at the end of the game in a physical form, which had taken over the girl in the shuttle.

And gaming fans would have a new hottie they could worship, like Samus Aran, Liara T'Soni, and Jill Valentine. (lol I had to go look those up).
Post edited April 12, 2013 by General_Hoohah
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General_Hoohah: This idea came to me after ...
Hey, you should put that into spoiler, or delete it alltogether.
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soylentgreen1: i have some wishful thinking, is it possible for the sale of system shock 2 to spark some devs or company to make system shock 3 because they notice the sale of system shock 2 and that people are still interested in the system shock series . i know some weird insurance company now owns system shock and that Ken Levine probably wont make a system shock 3 anyway system shock 2 really hold up good today and i still get a little scared when playing it.
Well, in meantime, if you´d interested in some fan-made missions, Christine made Ponterbee station + UNN Nigtwalker (unofficial continuation and ending to the story and a good one at that). You can find it here: http://www.systemshock.org/index.php?board=3.0

I too would love to see SS3, but only if it would be done right. And by right company. So Irrational Games (free from publisher restraints on this one - because they´d definitely promote consolidation, DLC and whatnot - which likely wouldn´t happen :( ), Night Dive or Obsidian or CD Projekt Red would come to mind.
Post edited April 14, 2013 by Tarhiel
Yeah, that ending was not really what Ken had in mind. Read this article to understand more, and also how it would be different game if the original concept was kept. search google for "system shock 2s surprise ending + for ken levine anyway" Turns out I can't make any links at this time. :P
I didn't see the option to make something a spoiler. Sorry. :(

Also, that article doesn't say how he wanted the game to end. I got just as much information from what you said.
Post edited April 16, 2013 by General_Hoohah
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General_Hoohah: I didn't see the option to make something a spoiler. Sorry. :(

Also, that article doesn't say how he wanted the game to end. I got just as much information from what you said.
“Due to miscommunications or differing ideas, a different cinematic video was created from the one that I originally scripted,” says Levine. “It had this elaborate sequence where Shodan would attempt to kill you in a double-cross, as this ‘cyber stinger’ that was in view provided tension of your impending doom.”

That is not much but...there it is.

If they are going to make System Shock 3 then they also should look back at System Shock 1.
You do not need RPG elements. System Shock 1 was like Metroid Prime - you leveled up finding new equipment to do stuff(like the Headlamp for Deck 3 - i hate Deck 3....SO MUCH).

The RPG elements just added to the replay value. Because you could do stuff using other methods or handle situations completly different. That is nice but i like to have the option to approach situations how i see fit and not depending on my choosen character.

Oh and...i thought Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite was SHODAN in the end...Because SHODAN could alter Spacetime using the Hyperdrive pretty much the same way like Elizabeth is doing it. I hoped in the end there would be a huge plot twist revealing that Bioshock always played on the VB/Rickenbacker and SHODAN Processing Unit 43893 is just fooling you ;)