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low rated
It is with a sad sad fucking heart that I have to put Planescape: Torment to the side again. This is a wonderful game, literally. It is full of such creativity and dazzling imagination that it is WRETCHED that this game is nigh unplayable on modern-day machines. Beamdog, NighTdive, - SOMEBODY - needs to fly in and deal the universe a solid by making an Enhanced Edition. This is the last time that I will invest hours into Planescape: Torment until such a product is created. I have had enough of disappearing items, disappearing party members and skulls that normally talk but will not come back from the dead. I am done, and it is not right.

PLAY PLANESCAPE: TORMENT. PLAY IT AND HOPE IT DOESN'T FALL TO PIECES. PRAY TO BEAMDOG. PRAY TO NIGHTDIVE. Pray for Torment ;_;
I am surprised you have encountered so many bugs. It works just fine on my Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 machines.

And I pray that Beamdog does not touch Torment with its dirty hands. They did enough damage already.
Post edited March 10, 2017 by Lebesgue
I'm sorry Wasphone that you are having a bad time of it. I am playing the GOG version, unmodded, on a Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PC, and it seems to be playing just fine.

And I am playing for the first time ever, too! I have completed all the quests up to and including Clerk's Ward. But before seeking out Ravel for my answers, I got to playing with this odd little cubic toy with arms legs and wings...

...And to this point, no issues.
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Lebesgue: I am surprised you have encountered so many bugs. It works just fine on my Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 machines.

And I pray that Beamdog does not touch Torment with its dirty hands. They did enough damage already.
The purity of my prayer cancels out yours, and by its very virtue is ENHANCED by your counter praying.
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CFM: I'm sorry Wasphone that you are having a bad time of it. I am playing the GOG version, unmodded, on a Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PC, and it seems to be playing just fine.

And I am playing for the first time ever, too! I have completed all the quests up to and including Clerk's Ward. But before seeking out Ravel for my answers, I got to playing with this odd little cubic toy with arms legs and wings...

...And to this point, no issues.
I hope you're right. BUT IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU.
Post edited March 10, 2017 by Wasphone
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Lebesgue: I am surprised you have encountered so many bugs. It works just fine on my Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 machines.

And I pray that Beamdog does not touch Torment with its dirty hands. They did enough damage already.
What damage? I replayed all of BG with the EE recently and it was a great experience, I don't recall anything detracting from the original BG experience I had playing it back in 1998 (and a couple partial-plays in between) when it came out (I ran out on xmas eve to EB to get it on release day)

Dragonspear was delightful! I really liked what they did there bridging the two games. I just finished that a week or two ago.

I'm currently replaying BG2 with the EE. I haven't gotten out of the starting area yet (I'm about to talk to the golem..). It's fantastic, I love being able to play it at 3200x1800 with nice crisp fonts and UI elements and zero technical problems. OK there's still the random shuffling of party members around sometimes to open a container, but that's no different from what I remember before. I'm having a blast replaying these games with the EE's.

I dearly hope Beamdog is working on a PS:T EE and they just can't say anything about it yet, I'd love to play that again in an EE engine. TAKE MY MONEY.

I don't evevn want to think about how many times I've paid for these games..
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Wasphone: Torment until such a product is created. I have had enough of disappearing items, disappearing party members and skulls that normally talk but will not come back from the dead. I am done, and it is not right.
The last time I played this game was with Windows 8 (not 8.1). I don't remember finding so many bugs. Though the game crashed from time to time.
Did you tried to use the suggested mods guides for the game?
I just got into vicous circle of dialougue repeting itself (the two abishai near the ignatus) :/
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Wasphone: SOMEBODY - needs to fly in and deal the universe a solid by making an Enhanced Edition.
Looks like your praying worked, it seems like Beamdog will announce Planescape Torment Enhanced Edition by Tuesday! :D
Here's the countdown (link comes from Beamdog, so it's official) http://planescape.com
Can't wait!
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hfm: Dragonspear was delightful! I really liked what they did there bridging the two games. I just finished that a week or two ago.
Yes! I finished it a few days ago and loved every minute of it! I've been playing the Enhanced Editions for the first time (currently doing Neera's quest at BG2EE), I've played the originals countless times over the years but, after experiencing the EE, I can say I'll never go back to the old versions, I'm aware many people hate it passionately, but I love what Beamdog did to these games. :)
Post edited March 26, 2017 by krugos2
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Wasphone: SOMEBODY - needs to fly in and deal the universe a solid by making an Enhanced Edition.
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krugos2: Looks like your praying worked, it seems like Beamdog will announce Planescape Torment Enhanced Edition by Tuesday! :D
Here's the countdown (link comes from Beamdog, so it's official) http://planescape.com
Can't wait!
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hfm: Dragonspear was delightful! I really liked what they did there bridging the two games. I just finished that a week or two ago.
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krugos2: Yes! I finished it a few days ago and loved every minute of it! I've been playing the Enhanced Editions for the first time (currently doing Neera's quest at BG2EE), I've played the originals countless times over the years but, after experiencing the EE, I can say I'll never go back to the old versions, I'm aware many people hate it passionately, but I love what Beamdog did to these games. :)
You loved that Beamdog created gigantic plot-holes in the saga with Siege of Dragonspear?

Congratulations. You are the reason why games are being dumbed down.
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krugos2: Looks like your praying worked, it seems like Beamdog will announce Planescape Torment Enhanced Edition by Tuesday! :D
Here's the countdown (link comes from Beamdog, so it's official) http://planescape.com
Can't wait!

Yes! I finished it a few days ago and loved every minute of it! I've been playing the Enhanced Editions for the first time (currently doing Neera's quest at BG2EE), I've played the originals countless times over the years but, after experiencing the EE, I can say I'll never go back to the old versions, I'm aware many people hate it passionately, but I love what Beamdog did to these games. :)
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Stig79: You loved that Beamdog created gigantic plot-holes in the saga with Siege of Dragonspear?

Congratulations. You are the reason why games are being dumbed down.
Cool, I didn't know I had such influence over the gaming industry. Makes me feel important dumbing down games and stuff. :)
low rated
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Stig79: You loved that Beamdog created gigantic plot-holes in the saga with Siege of Dragonspear?

Congratulations. You are the reason why games are being dumbed down.
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krugos2: Cool, I didn't know I had such influence over the gaming industry. Makes me feel important dumbing down games and stuff. :)
What did you feel about the gigantic plot-holes it created?
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krugos2: Cool, I didn't know I had such influence over the gaming industry. Makes me feel important dumbing down games and stuff. :)
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Stig79: What did you feel about the gigantic plot-holes it created?
Which plot-holes are those?
low rated
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Stig79: What did you feel about the gigantic plot-holes it created?
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krugos2: Which plot-holes are those?
Viconia being in it, despite telling you in BG2 she was living on a farm in that time-period?

Irenicus trying to frame you for murder so you can get executed - despite his main goal in BG2 is to steal your soul? He kind of screws up his own main goal if he succeeds at getting you executed....

Jaheira and Safana getting completely new personalities in SoD, but then reverts to their old personalities in BG2 again.

Irenicus sending you dreams like in BG2, even though it wasn't actually him who did it in BG2 - it was the Bhaal essence in you that gave you the dreams. Irenicus even says he never sent you dreams.


There are plenty more. Almost impossible to miss. Even the most positive reviews point them out.
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krugos2: Which plot-holes are those?
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Stig79: Viconia being in it, despite telling you in BG2 she was living on a farm in that time-period?

Irenicus trying to frame you for murder so you can get executed - despite his main goal in BG2 is to steal your soul? He kind of screws up his own main goal if he succeeds at getting you executed....

Jaheira and Safana getting completely new personalities in SoD, but then reverts to their old personalities in BG2 again.

Irenicus sending you dreams like in BG2, even though it wasn't actually him who did it in BG2 - it was the Bhaal essence in you that gave you the dreams. Irenicus even says he never sent you dreams.

There are plenty more. Almost impossible to miss. Even the most positive reviews point them out.
Plot-holes are to be expected in something as huge as these games and under different creative teams, Bg2 introduced quite a number of them, many I would say are way worse than those in SoD. As for the Beamdog expansion, I didn't encounter any that I would call "gigantic" or any that made the experience less enjoyable, just minor inconsistencies I didn't care about. The game is not without faults, that's for sure, and I have a list of things I didn't like (the NPC portraits being one of the worse things they did, but happily one of the easiest to fix) but to my gaming experience SoD makes some sense of the arbitrary choices of BG2, like the canon party and why Imoen is a mage when I always keep her as a thief.

As for the ones you mentioned:

1. I don't play with Viconia, so I didn't notice this in my game, I didn't remember what she tells you in SoA. But most NPCs that returned in BG2 were already problematic in terms of what you did wiith them in BG1. Why is this or that NPC alive if he/she died while in my party; some don't recognize you after spending months adventuring with you, stuff like that. While this is no excuse for Beamdog to introduce new inconsistencies in an expansion, it's something that doesn't bother me personally. I understand how it may bother others, though, and it's a valid criticism.

2. I don't see this as a plot-hole. The guy could have his reasons, perhaps he knew you were not going to be executed and set up your downfall and liberation through the forest so he could capture you when you were most vulnerable. Perhaps he didn't really need you, and could use other Bhaalspawn for his plan, there was no shortage of them, also, he tells you at some point he's trying to figure out who is better for his plan, you or Caelar, and she isn't even a Bhaalspawn.

3. I didn't play with Safana, so I can't talk about how different she is from her BG1 persona (her BG2 persona is no more than an aggravating cameo).
Jaheira, however, was in my party and her personality during SoD didn't clash with the character I've known all these years. What was so different about her that bothers people?

4. While I don't remember the dreams in detail, isn't it possible the Bhaal essence caused the dreams in SoD too instead of Irenicus? I'm just asking, I really don't remember if it is made clear in SoD that it is indeed Irenicus who caused the dreams, if so, it's a plot-hole that I missed completely. Because if it is only hinted, in BG2 was also hinted that Irenicus was responsible until the plot twist reveal, so maybe the dreams in SoD are an extension of those in BG2?
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Stig79: Viconia being in it, despite telling you in BG2 she was living on a farm in that time-period?

Irenicus trying to frame you for murder so you can get executed - despite his main goal in BG2 is to steal your soul? He kind of screws up his own main goal if he succeeds at getting you executed....

Jaheira and Safana getting completely new personalities in SoD, but then reverts to their old personalities in BG2 again.

Irenicus sending you dreams like in BG2, even though it wasn't actually him who did it in BG2 - it was the Bhaal essence in you that gave you the dreams. Irenicus even says he never sent you dreams.

There are plenty more. Almost impossible to miss. Even the most positive reviews point them out.
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krugos2: Plot-holes are to be expected in something as huge as these games and under different creative teams, Bg2 introduced quite a number of them, many I would say are way worse than those in SoD. As for the Beamdog expansion, I didn't encounter any that I would call "gigantic" or any that made the experience less enjoyable, just minor inconsistencies I didn't care about. The game is not without faults, that's for sure, and I have a list of things I didn't like (the NPC portraits being one of the worse things they did, but happily one of the easiest to fix) but to my gaming experience SoD makes some sense of the arbitrary choices of BG2, like the canon party and why Imoen is a mage when I always keep her as a thief.

As for the ones you mentioned:

1. I don't play with Viconia, so I didn't notice this in my game, I didn't remember what she tells you in SoA. But most NPCs that returned in BG2 were already problematic in terms of what you did wiith them in BG1. Why is this or that NPC alive if he/she died while in my party; some don't recognize you after spending months adventuring with you, stuff like that. While this is no excuse for Beamdog to introduce new inconsistencies in an expansion, it's something that doesn't bother me personally. I understand how it may bother others, though, and it's a valid criticism.

2. I don't see this as a plot-hole. The guy could have his reasons, perhaps he knew you were not going to be executed and set up your downfall and liberation through the forest so he could capture you when you were most vulnerable. Perhaps he didn't really need you, and could use other Bhaalspawn for his plan, there was no shortage of them, also, he tells you at some point he's trying to figure out who is better for his plan, you or Caelar, and she isn't even a Bhaalspawn.

3. I didn't play with Safana, so I can't talk about how different she is from her BG1 persona (her BG2 persona is no more than an aggravating cameo).
Jaheira, however, was in my party and her personality during SoD didn't clash with the character I've known all these years. What was so different about her that bothers people?

4. While I don't remember the dreams in detail, isn't it possible the Bhaal essence caused the dreams in SoD too instead of Irenicus? I'm just asking, I really don't remember if it is made clear in SoD that it is indeed Irenicus who caused the dreams, if so, it's a plot-hole that I missed completely. Because if it is only hinted, in BG2 was also hinted that Irenicus was responsible until the plot twist reveal, so maybe the dreams in SoD are an extension of those in BG2?
1. No it was not problematic at all. The game didn't let you import a world-state so the game offers a canon ending that BG2 uses. Viconia tells you she spent her time living on a farm near Beregost. She eventually killed the farmers and fled to Amn. Given that SoD ends a few weeks before BG2 starts....

2. No his reasons are crystal clear. You find his journal in BG2. He has been planning to steal YOUR soul for years.Trying to get you executed just ends up being completely moronic. Given that it is the main plot of BG2, this is a gigantic plot-hole.

3. Yes they are different. The lead writer even said so herself that she wanted to give them new personalities. Safana was nothing but a sex-object, and Jaheira was nothing but a "nagging wife". This, according to her, made them "poor representations of women".

Here is the exact quote from her “If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”

Basically she sees it as her duty to "fix" the sexism in the original game. Keeping the expansion in tune with the rest of the games doesn't even factor in. That is how you mess up a story.

4. No. Irenicus is doing it in SoD. Because the writer thought it was he who did it in BG2 as well. This is what happens when you let a social activist get full freedom of writing the middle chapter in a much loved franchise with complex characters.