Posted March 17, 2016
Fenixp
nnpab
Fenixp Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Czech Republic
Hickory
Almost human
Hickory Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2010
From United Kingdom
Bladebearer
New User
Bladebearer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2014
From United States
Fenixp
nnpab
Fenixp Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Czech Republic
Posted March 18, 2016
So first of all, the lesson you should have taken from discussion taking place above (yes, the one Hickory was trying to direct into "But you don't know of any such occurrences, therefore what you're saying is false, somehow." See? This is exactly why I brought it up) is that EULAs don't mean shit. American law strictly prohibits copyright infringement, and Pillars of Eternity is copyrighted material sold commercially. Even if there was no EULA whatsoever, you can not legally obtain copyrighted material in the states in any other way than what copyright holders decide for you.
Secondly, DRM-free only means that the product has no copy protection - metaphorically, it's a shop with no staff with its doors always unlocked, its stock up for sale completely unguarded. Items in this shop still have prices and you still need to pay for them. If you enter such a shop, take an item and don't leave any money for it, you are stealing - exactly like downloading a DRM-free game from pirate sites. And lastly...
Since you are breaking US law by downloading and installing this product, your activity is very illegal, EULAs notwithstanding. And even the EULAs are tilted against you. If you don't believe me, it's easy enough - pick up a phone, I'm sure there are local authorities you can ask about legality of your actions. And ask about what you're going to be fined for your behavior while you're at it.
Secondly, DRM-free only means that the product has no copy protection - metaphorically, it's a shop with no staff with its doors always unlocked, its stock up for sale completely unguarded. Items in this shop still have prices and you still need to pay for them. If you enter such a shop, take an item and don't leave any money for it, you are stealing - exactly like downloading a DRM-free game from pirate sites. And lastly...
Bladebearer: 1. All redistributions of source code files must retain all copyright
notices that are currently in place, and this list of conditions without
modification.
Yup, that's the standing EULA for Pillars of Eternity which you can actually read if you click a button in GOG installer. It still applies, even this very bit of the rules say so. notices that are currently in place, and this list of conditions without
modification.
Since you are breaking US law by downloading and installing this product, your activity is very illegal, EULAs notwithstanding. And even the EULAs are tilted against you. If you don't believe me, it's easy enough - pick up a phone, I'm sure there are local authorities you can ask about legality of your actions. And ask about what you're going to be fined for your behavior while you're at it.
Bladebearer
New User
Bladebearer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2014
From United States
Posted March 18, 2016
Fenixp: So first of all, the lesson you should have taken from discussion taking place above (yes, the one Hickory was trying to direct into "But you don't know of any such occurrences, therefore what you're saying is false, somehow." See? This is exactly why I brought it up) is that EULAs don't mean shit. American law strictly prohibits copyright infringement, and Pillars of Eternity is copyrighted material sold commercially. Even if there was no EULA whatsoever, you can not legally obtain copyrighted material in the states in any other way than what copyright holders decide for you.
Secondly, DRM-free only means that the product has no copy protection - metaphorically, it's a shop with no staff with its doors always unlocked, its stock up for sale completely unguarded. Items in this shop still have prices and you still need to pay for them. If you enter such a shop, take an item and don't leave any money for it, you are stealing - exactly like downloading a DRM-free game from pirate sites. And lastly...
Since you are breaking US law by downloading and installing this product, your activity is very illegal, EULAs notwithstanding. And even the EULAs are tilted against you. If you don't believe me, it's easy enough - pick up a phone, I'm sure there are local authorities you can ask about legality of your actions. And ask about what you're going to be fined for your behavior while you're at it.
I see you decided to ignore the facts of what was "electronically signed" in the agreement. Never did I state that I didn't pay for this software by the way. Copyright can be given up and terms stated in any install. There is no mass rule for anything that has been copyright. Go read the agreement. It shows the only copyright that is listed with this install of the game, being microsoft, and what's allowed with that current copyright. Secondly, DRM-free only means that the product has no copy protection - metaphorically, it's a shop with no staff with its doors always unlocked, its stock up for sale completely unguarded. Items in this shop still have prices and you still need to pay for them. If you enter such a shop, take an item and don't leave any money for it, you are stealing - exactly like downloading a DRM-free game from pirate sites. And lastly...
Bladebearer: 1. All redistributions of source code files must retain all copyright
notices that are currently in place, and this list of conditions without
modification.
Fenixp: Yup, that's the standing EULA for Pillars of Eternity which you can actually read if you click a button in GOG installer. It still applies, even this very bit of the rules say so. notices that are currently in place, and this list of conditions without
modification.
Since you are breaking US law by downloading and installing this product, your activity is very illegal, EULAs notwithstanding. And even the EULAs are tilted against you. If you don't believe me, it's easy enough - pick up a phone, I'm sure there are local authorities you can ask about legality of your actions. And ask about what you're going to be fined for your behavior while you're at it.
As I see you want to continue to assume the legality of what's stated, without reading it, or realizing the facts, i'll be ending my part of the conversation here. You can continue to pay for things you don't need to, and waste whatever money you choose. I'll continue to pay deserving developers, and not wasting money at every corner, due to reading before I click.
Post edited March 18, 2016 by Bladebearer
Hickory
Almost human
Hickory Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted March 18, 2016
It's funny the lengths some people go to justify theft while insisting they themselves never steal.
Fenixp
nnpab
Fenixp Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Czech Republic
Posted March 18, 2016
Yes, it can, to an extent.
It certainly can not be given up by GOG which does not hold the copyright.
And as I said, if you're so certain of legality of your action, feel free to ask authorities. You won't, naturally, as somewhere deep down, you probably realize how ridiculous this argumentation is. What you're talking about is definitely illegal under Czech law and US copyright law is even more strict so eh... Knock yourself out I guess :-P
The most puzzling to me is that these people aren't even able to man up and admit that yes, they took something creators want to sell for money and snatched it for free. Piracy is tots legit see and morally fine, that's why it's called piracy after all.
It certainly can not be given up by GOG which does not hold the copyright.
And as I said, if you're so certain of legality of your action, feel free to ask authorities. You won't, naturally, as somewhere deep down, you probably realize how ridiculous this argumentation is. What you're talking about is definitely illegal under Czech law and US copyright law is even more strict so eh... Knock yourself out I guess :-P
The most puzzling to me is that these people aren't even able to man up and admit that yes, they took something creators want to sell for money and snatched it for free. Piracy is tots legit see and morally fine, that's why it's called piracy after all.
Necrosani
New User
Necrosani Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2015
From United States
Posted April 07, 2016
I'm just glad the OP bought the game in the end. Stealing is stealing. You can justify it all you want but it doesn't change the facts. People don't seem to realize how many people theft effects. Let's take a huge store chain. Something like say Target or Walmart. People just assume that it's a big corporation so stealing a few things here and there doesn't hurt anyone. They just write it off, no big deal but it effects everyone. Not just the CEO and corporation itself but all of the workers. The stocker, cashiers, the people who come clean the floors at night. The people who deliver bread, the people who work at the warehouses, the truck drivers who deliver the goods and then it branches out even further and effects everyone who's involved with each company the original company is involved with and finally ends right back up at the consumer themselves. Billions of dollars in theft take place each year. Can you imagine how much cheaper items would be if there was NO theft? They would more than likely be significantly cheaper than what they are. Theft effects prices because the companies have to make up that lost money somehow.
So when you pirate a game, not only are you hurting the game company and all of their employees but it goes further and effects their families, their children, etc. Companies hire caterers, they use hotels, they use gas, buy phones, spend money on all kids of other seemingly unrelated services and each theft is like a ripple in the ocean that effects the whole thing. The person it hurts the most is the actual gamer themselves. It makes the games you love cost more money. It causes headaches like DRM. Plus it's just really crappy to steal from those who create for a living. Imagine working for 2+ years on something and only getting a fraction of the money you thought you would because every other person decides to steal your product instead of buying it. Could you imagine putting 2 or more years into say writing a book. You pour every ounce of your blood, sweat and tears into crafting something. You do it out of love but a side effect is that you can also potentially make some money off of doing what you love You spend time and money to get your book edited and hire an artist to do the cover. Finally after laboring over it forever you release it to the world and hardly make crap even though thousands of people have read it. Instead of buying it and supporting this person who busted their butts to craft something you enjoy you just steal it online and then justify your actions with whatever asinine argument is flavorful this week. That hardly seems fair to me. It's not an easy thing to create for a living and it's made harder by all the self entitled people out there who feel that they are the exception to the rule. Most of us are to some degree guilty of this. Most of us at one time have taken something online that we should have paid for but there has to come a point where you really look at what you've done and realize that it's wrong. I don't want to do this anymore and I want to support those who create for a living. I want to support the things that I enjoy. We can justify any action if we want to bad enough but a thief is a thief is a thief. Do the right thing and support the things you like.
So when you pirate a game, not only are you hurting the game company and all of their employees but it goes further and effects their families, their children, etc. Companies hire caterers, they use hotels, they use gas, buy phones, spend money on all kids of other seemingly unrelated services and each theft is like a ripple in the ocean that effects the whole thing. The person it hurts the most is the actual gamer themselves. It makes the games you love cost more money. It causes headaches like DRM. Plus it's just really crappy to steal from those who create for a living. Imagine working for 2+ years on something and only getting a fraction of the money you thought you would because every other person decides to steal your product instead of buying it. Could you imagine putting 2 or more years into say writing a book. You pour every ounce of your blood, sweat and tears into crafting something. You do it out of love but a side effect is that you can also potentially make some money off of doing what you love You spend time and money to get your book edited and hire an artist to do the cover. Finally after laboring over it forever you release it to the world and hardly make crap even though thousands of people have read it. Instead of buying it and supporting this person who busted their butts to craft something you enjoy you just steal it online and then justify your actions with whatever asinine argument is flavorful this week. That hardly seems fair to me. It's not an easy thing to create for a living and it's made harder by all the self entitled people out there who feel that they are the exception to the rule. Most of us are to some degree guilty of this. Most of us at one time have taken something online that we should have paid for but there has to come a point where you really look at what you've done and realize that it's wrong. I don't want to do this anymore and I want to support those who create for a living. I want to support the things that I enjoy. We can justify any action if we want to bad enough but a thief is a thief is a thief. Do the right thing and support the things you like.
Fenixp
nnpab
Fenixp Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Czech Republic
Posted April 07, 2016
Necrosani: I'm just glad the OP bought the game in the end. Stealing is stealing. You can justify it all you want but it doesn't change the facts. People don't seem to realize how many people theft effects. Let's take a huge store chain. Something like say Target or Walmart. People just assume that it's a big corporation so stealing a few things here and there doesn't hurt anyone. They just write it off, no big deal but it effects everyone. Not just the CEO and corporation itself but all of the workers. The stocker, cashiers, the people who come clean the floors at night. The people who deliver bread, the people who work at the warehouses, the truck drivers who deliver the goods and then it branches out even further and effects everyone who's involved with each company the original company is involved with and finally ends right back up at the consumer themselves. Billions of dollars in theft take place each year. Can you imagine how much cheaper items would be if there was NO theft? They would more than likely be significantly cheaper than what they are. Theft effects prices because the companies have to make up that lost money somehow.
Of course except when you steal something from a store, the store loses an item it purchased and you gain an item you did not purchase. When you pirate a videogame, the creators didn't lose anything and you gained a product - digital media can be reproduced for effectively no cost and infinitely. The perceived equation that pirated product = lost money for a retailer is fallacious in digital media - in fact, there's research supporting a notion that piracy might increase sales trough word of mouth and brand recognition (and there's also research supporting contrary, so ... Eh.)