totaly on the same page, as i said you can't stand a chance, it's logical and i like it that way, but you have to accept to lose agents on the field

Removing recurring enemy respawns would be a mistake in my book and take away both the pressure and realism. I like that pressure. Maybe they can make it optional, I guess, if possible.

Do not what this to be taken as continuing on what could be seen as a flame post to something not intended to be taken as a "whine" post, but this cracked me up. ;)

On another note - it's awesome we get the patch so soon after Steam for this game! Really appreciated!

On a related note (I assume this should be directed at GOG and not the devs): WHY IS IT ONLY AVAILABLE ON GALAXY AT THE MOMENT? I had to download that "client" of yours - I had deleted it long ago - before I could point it to my PD directory and have it update.

Sure the update was automatic after that, and the download required was smaller than the download for Galaxy, since I had already applied patches up to 1.0.2 previously - so Galaxy's game-finding and patching abilities are definitely working pretty well from what I can gather - but that's still twice as much crap to download compared to just grabbing the patch the old-school way.

Not all places in the world have fast, unlimited internet. Sure mine's not THAT slow or THAT limited, but it could easily have been depending on where I lived exactly.

But I didn't have to download anywhere NEAR 12GB of data, despite not even using Galaxy for patch 1.0.3. Not sure how people's clients weren't updating - you should have been able to force it to update if auto-update wasn't working for some reason.

Still doesn't excuse making me download Galaxy though. Plus I'll have to download the patch again later if I want a copy. So GOG, please - whatever processes you guys use are obviously somewhat lacking in efficiency, which (in addition to annoying self-entitled internet assholes such as me) must surely be something worth fixing (since better efficiency == more effective output, faster, possibly with fewer manual effort required, which == more other stuff done faster, which ultimately == more profit).

OK so now while this was installing, I was writing this rant. Now that it's finally finished, I notice that NOW you have 1.0.3 available as a proper download. That's still at least 12 hours between appearing via Galaxy (going by the first post mentioning they had successfully installed 1.0.3 via Galaxy) and it being available the normal way. Are your servers located on a different continent, and this continent is somehow connected to the internet yet not connected to the servers containing Galaxy, and you had to manually send it via courier? Because that's the most logical explanation I can come up with for the difference being 12 hours. If the reason is anything else - see above.

TL;DR:

- Devs thanks for patching quickly
- GOG - sort your shit out.
- Yes I got off track, but it's patch related so here it goes.
- Only reason I had time for this is because of GOG not having above shit sorted out.

Ah yes, forgot about the occasional forced combat missions - although if it's the mission(s) I'm thinking of, that's definitely a situation that you should expect to get overwhelmed. Well maybe not "expect" initially, but you know what I mean.

There is one mission type where reinforcements bother me a bit, but it's not because they're endless, it's because you have to kill all current enemies before the next lot arrive in order to finish the mission, which doesn't really make a hell of a lot of sense. Technically it's possible to do these missions in full stealth (probably?), but you easily get enough men to take everyone out in a noisy way without too much trouble - the pain is more in finding the reinforcements before more come.

One time, the target to kill was 9 enemies, the next lot only took two turns which made it to 13, I was making progress but then a chopper decided to fire a missile at me, then spend a turn or two chewing through one of my guys with a chain gun. How the hell that guy survived survived TWO direct hits with a freaking attack helo's chain gun I have no idea, but he had around 6 health left after that.

Then I only had a few turns to find the last enemy - I could hear her setting up overwatch every turn, then FINALLY found her - with my last guy I moved, with 1 turn to go for the next batch. Next turn - another 5 arrived (18 now). I spent a few turns looking for them - I could hear at least two of them overwatch spamming - finally ran into them with one of my agents. They were camped on the ground floor, hoping I'd walk into their overwatch. I didn't, but they did all get a shot at one guy - luckily decent health + full awareness + full cover == not that much damage. Looked on the turn counter - hadn't killed anyone yet, other agents still a turn away (I stupidly scattered them because I just wanted to get this over with) - reinforcements due in another two turns.

My next move? Restart the damn mission.

To be fair, once I actually knew that I had to kill everyone before the next batch rocked up for those missions, it wasn't so bad. Apart from the requirement to kill the current reinforcements being a bit strange, these are good fun since you can field a 6-man squad (plus support).

Happened to me once. If you manage to take out all enemies before the next reinforcements wave arrives, your primary objective will be completed and you won't need to kill the rest of the coming enemies. Anyway, that's very hard to accomplish. Reinforcements shouldn't count towards mission objectives (neither should regular policemen, as they are probably unrelated to the conspiracy, imo) in these missions.

Yes, I've had exactly the same thoughts with respect to the policemen! When I first started the level, I actually assumed the policemen were NOT part of the spy/conspiracy, so I left them alone. Only to find out later that I did have to take them out, and by then I had moved my whole team to the other side of the map where the actual agents were.

I assumed that when they said that we have to kill "agents", that they would be "agents", or at the very least those SEC guys (SEC-GRENADIER, SEC-POINTMAN, etc.) - since those types are always guarding an agent.

I always considered the cops/militsia/etc. to just be regular local cops/militia. Sure they'd run to the scene if a gun went off, but I never considered them to be an active part of whatever enemy team(s) there are.

Speaking of which, do you or anyone know if the cops or guards of the informant will actually attempt to shoot the assassin, in those informer rescue missions? Or the SEC-<> guards - anyone see them try to shoot the assassin? And has anyone ever had the assassin actually try to kill the enemy agent? I expected the assassin to beeline for the enemy, but unless he spots me he'll still continue doing what he's doing (either standing in one spot, or patrolling a room back and forth.). When he does move, he seems to only want to attack my team - he seems to ignore the informant until you go up to him to "rescue" him.

I've even had the assassin start the level right next to the informant, but all he did was patrol back and forth just outside the guy's window. He would have easily had a shot at him - I'm glad he didn't because there's no way I would have been able to reach him in time, and I chose the closest drop-off point to the informant.

You're assulting the enemy agent during the planning stage of the assassination in order to stop it. Only when you "get caught" does the enemy agent suspect that you're on to him and move up his assassination plan.
As far as I know, the SEC's are just trying to interrogate the informant, not know about the enemy agent trying to assassinate the informent.
Alternatively: The SEC's are interrogating the informant and the agent is just awaiting the SEC's to finish so they can execute the informant, akin to what you do to captured agents.

Make sense?

Once again - no flame, no hatred, but the whole point of that my post was - you have NO option to remain in stealth in some missions no matter what. And your reasoning about "definitely a situation that you should expect to get overwhelmed" does not change my argument a bit.
Endless enemy waves with the combat system as it was on 1st patch (I'm no longer have the game & cannot judge combat balance) was restricted & extremely masochistic experience for me.
Still waiting for official response to my question, tho.

Your last point makes the most sense. That would definitely explain why in one mission, he was waiting outside the door pacing back and forth. Like he was thinking "Come on, where's that interrogator at? I've been waiting here all day, and I've still got a two moles to execute before morning!".

This also explains why the agents are not on opposing teams.

For some reason, I figured that he was arrested but also in protective custody, while the assassin was the only "conspiracy" agent. Actually I think it's because the mission mentions an "assassin" - generally I'd associate that with someone sent to assassinate a target, e.g. like Hitman.

It would have made more sense if the mission description had mentioned the informer had been captured and was being interrogated, and is due to be executed soon - since that fits much better with what appears to be happening.

I guess if you're that opposed to the mechanic, then I guess this particular game is not your style, and will never appeal to you unless an option to turn off unlimited reinforcements is added.

FTL had similar reactions - personally I like it when a game throws insane stuff at me, then laughs as I try to survive against the odds, but some people just couldn't stand it.

With endless reinforcements, both XCOM2 with the Long War 2 mod and this game achieve a sense of being a small team in enemy territory, where once discovered (or straight away, in some missions), you need to do what you need to do, as quickly as possible because hell is about to be unleashed upon you. It brings to mind those spy action movies where their home/safehouse/base is raided, or where they do a raid with meticulous planning only for the enemy to discover them and all hell breaks loose, and suddenly you're no longer the assassin/thief in the silent shadows - you may be tough, but the enemy is relentless and won't stop, so you need to "GET TO DA CHOPPA!" (or van or whatever) before a horde of enemies take you out.

It's a shame you no longer have the game though, because once you get used to how the combat works, it becomes much, much easier. I'm now at the point where I'd welcome a level above Hard, to crank it up a notch - but that can wait since I still haven't completed the game yet, and if some mechanics are changed this may not be necessary.

The one thing it definitely shares with the XCOM games: killing the enemy as fast as possible once combat starts is crucial. The way to do that here differs: here if someone has high awareness, you need to reduce that first before taking them out, and to do this in one turn always requires two agents: one to fire a full auto, which apart from damage will instantly remove their awareness; then another to finish the job, which may require only a single shot, maybe a burst, or maybe a pistol head shot (in which case you need someone with a pistol to be close enough and with enough awareness for the headshot).

The way it differs from XCOM is that in addition to always ensuring all of your agents are behind heavy cover if at all possible, you also should ensure that their awareness is as high as possible at all times. I've had one agent dodge at least two attacks, then get hit with two more - and those didn't do much damage because he was in high cover.

Then factor in that you can always do max damage at point-blank range, and firing pistols doesn't end your turn (and I believe also costs no movement points at all?). This can be exploited pretty easily by the player at the moment - the AI currently either doesn't realise that point-blank range is a thing, or they prioritise cover over kills. Luckily the AI doesn't HAVE to be exploited in order to win, even on hard, because to me that kind of thing feels overly cheesy.

Oh and finally: the mods to the side-step thing (mentioned in the OP) makes the combat feel a lot better already.

totally agree with that it feels much better you no longer think "hey i'm in full cover how can't i just hide until the enemy stop firing at me!" in this situation i only understand some damage from a bullet going through the wall or the agent peecking and who is not fast enough to dodge a burst while hiding again (which is totally logical with the awarness system, that i find really good by the way)...

In 3 words, great job devs!

No sweat, take your time.

No problems, will try out as soon as I see it. Hopefully I won't have to reinstall Galaxy to get it (or wait another 12 hours) - but that's GOG's issue, not yours.